Do signalpeople really refer to passengers as "chimps" and

[319321]

I am a member of a commutor group on facebook and have been posting various information about the usage of tickets from Hockley, Rochford, Southend Aiport, Prittlewell and Southend Victoria on the c2c line.

There are some railway staff that participate in these group pouring scorn on the idea that passengers who pay a lot of money for their journeys might complain if the service that they recieve isn't up to scratch.

One such member of staff (who I understand is a signalman of thirty years standing) has got in to an argument with me about the "Rochford Travelcard" issue. The latest on the issue, as of last week, is that:

• c2c asked Greater Anglia to add a routeing restriction to the travelcard to prevent passengers using it on their trains;
• Greater Anglia applied to the DfT for permission to route the fares from Rochford via Shenfield;
• the DfT refused permission for this;
• Greater Anglia accepted this decision in September; and
• c2c confirmed that they accepted this decision last week and will be reprogramming their barriers at Southend Central.

Anyway, despite the above facts being true at the time of the argument, this member of staff keeps arguing with me. His arguments have included:

"Trains travelling away from London (towards Southend Vic or anywhere else) are Down trains.
You are trying to use those down services with c2c to form Up services as the journey will be in an Up direction. Ain't happening!"

and

The problem is someone is trying to get a TOC to turn Down services into Up services and it just doesn't work that way.

Just for good measure, he is one of "those" people who think that there is such a thing as a peak time train and that if I were to use a valid off-peak ticket on a peak time train, I should be given a penalty fare. When I provided him a link to the Paddington Gateline thread, his reaction was "And I'm not tapping on a link to a trainspotter rail forum."

Anyway, this guy deleted all his comments and had a tantrum, then sent a message to another user, and the message is as follows:

I really couldn't give a flying ... to be honest. It seems the group is the same as a lot of commuter groups. When the trains run on time there's no comment but when something goes wrong wait for the complaints.

There was one the other day. Someone moaning about being stuck on a red for five minutes... I guess he wanted the train to SPAD and smash into another train or derail or something. ****!

Normally, I just scroll past the posts. If they aren't for info such as the line shut by a fallen tree or whatever, then it's very boring. Hence the reason for my trying to add comedy links from time to time when relevant.

There are two sorts of commuter.
The first I've already covered. Pay a squillion quid to moan. If things work as planned... no comment.

In signalling terms these are the bales of hay. They just sit there.

The other signalling term is Chimp.
These don't just sit there. They believe they know better than everyone and try to change things.
Not knowing what they are talking about, they end up with a mess.

The chap with this ridiculous idea is one of these.

He hasn't a clue but that isn't stop him doing his King of the swingers - a jungle VIP act on here.

Maybe I should of scrolled past.

In fact I had.

But then I scrolled back and thought sod it. It's probably a hiding to nowhere but at least try to get this chimp to see sense.

I realised it was going nowhere and decided that instead of casting my pearls before swine to gather them back up and leave him looking as you put it 'like a drunk directing traffic while arguing with himself'. It's a neat trick to play - best done on politicians though!

Then I found I had been kicked off the group anyway. No big deal, I was considering a cull of my groups anyway and this one was on the list as it's actual info value was very low.

So, take my advice and go as well. The railway will go on no matter what the keyboard warriors say.

I'm not actually a commuter
But seriously, do signalman really just see passengers as bales of hay and chimps? Is that how they refer to us when making decisions about whether or not to run our trains on time?

Or is this just one signalman who hates passengers, who are ultimately the people that he is supposed to be running the railway for?

 

[EM2]

...when making decisions about whether or not to run our trains on time?

*Sits back, puts feet up, opens popcorn*
This should be good...

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the airline industry they certainly have "self-loading freight"...

 

[319321]

But seriously, do signalman really just see passengers as bales of hay and chimps? Is that how they refer to us when making decisions about whether or not to run our trains on time?

I've self reported that comment. What I meant was:

But seriously, do signalman really just see passengers as bales of hay and chimps? Is that how they refer to us when making decisions about which trains to allocate paths when fulfilling their duties?

 

[tellytype]

In the airline industry they certainly have "self-loading freight"...

...and a few other choice phrases as well I miss my airport days!

 

[headshot119]

Mods please lock the thread now!

 

[D1009]

In the airline industry they certainly have "self-loading freight"...

I heard that phrase uttered by the Chief Officer of MV Balmoral last year (the little one not the big one). He is approaching retirement after a long career on cargo ships. He has moved on now, but was one of the most friendly ship's officers you could ever wish to meet.

 

[Llanigraham]

But seriously, do signalman really just see passengers as bales of hay and chimps? Is that how they refer to us when making decisions about whether or not to run our trains on time?

Or is this just one signalman who hates passengers, who are ultimately the people that he is supposed to be running the railway for?

Signallers have no contact with passengers; you are just the people sitting on the trains that we signal. You could be bales of hay or lumps of coal, it makes no difference.

We don't make decisions whether you run on time or not. We are there to ensure you have a SAFE journey, and sometimes that might mean we have to delay TRAINS.

However I will admit to making some very rude comments of drivers who break the rules at level crossings!

 

[Phil.]

I would suggest that the original poster grows a thicker layer of skin. Every single organisation's staff who deal with the public have their own pet names for them, some more derogatory than others. We've had airline passengers referred to as self loading freight. F-4 pilots often referred to the Navigator in the back seat as ballast.

 

[yorkie]

Just for good measure, he is one of "those" people who think that there is such a thing as a peak time train and that if I were to use a valid off-peak ticket on a peak time train, I should be given a penalty fare.

I know the short. They can think what they want, but they can't change the actual legislation/conditions.

When I provided him a link to the Paddington Gateline thread, his reaction was "And I'm not tapping on a link to a trainspotter rail forum."

We do have a few trainspotters here, but then we probably have some signalspotters too

Isn't there a block/ignore function you can use? Problem solved!

There is no point continuing to argue; they ain't gonna change their mind. Spend the time doing something productive.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I would suggest that the original poster grows a thicker layer of skin. Every single organisation's staff who deal with the public have their own pet names for them, some more derogatory than others. We've had airline passengers referred to as self loading freight. F-4 pilots often referred to the Navigator in the back seat as ballast.

The derogatory term for a passenger is probably the least worrying thing to me!
I'd be more concerned about the incorrect assertions being made about valid tickets being invalid.

 

[the sniper]

"And I'm not tapping on a link to a trainspotter rail forum."

Yet he's happy to swim in the conversation cesspool that is Facebook... Charming!

 

[godfreycomplex]

*Sits back, puts feet up, opens popcorn*
This should be good...

Quite...

All I will add to this is that I have never heard these terms used to refer to passengers; by signallers or anyone else

 

[ComUtoR]

Quite...

All I will add to this is that I have never heard these terms used to refer to passengers; by signallers signalpeople or anyone else

Most of the terms I've heard are not repeatable, printable or typeable.

 

[nom de guerre]

Indeed.

There's plenty of banter and moaning in larger boxes, but perhaps inevitably, the main targets are the people we encounter/endure on a daily basis: management, drivers, control/platform/depot/staff, delay attributors, contractors, level crossing users... and of course, colleagues!

I've never heard complaints about passengers as a collective, nor the terms mentioned by the OP. As Llani says, the majority of us have no direct contact with passengers; therefore we only tend to think about them in the context of taking operational decisions (eg holding a connection).

 

[signallerscot]

I have no contact with and little interest in passengers, the most derogatory name for whom I have heard at work is 'punters'.

 

[infobleep]

I once was on a discussion group and explained how copyright works. I got an abuse message back from one member who thought I was just there to spoil people's fun. You will always get people online who are rude. They might be less rude to your face though.

I'm always polite when I deal with members of the public. I've heard people being referred to as serial. Complainers or people with anything better to do with their time but they wouldn't say it to the people.

As for trainspotters. What do you call someone who isn't interested in the trains so much but where they go; route taken; when they go, how often they go and any unusual workings? Line spotter? Route spotter? Timetable geek? I'm sure there are people on here who are not fascinated by the trains but the complexities of the routing guide. I find it fascinating myself.

Perhaps us passengers should have a term for signalman when they don't set the signals in our favour. Lol. I'm joking of course as it's not that easy for them.

However when things do work in my favour, when delays are occurring, I am always grateful to the signaller. Not that he gets to hear about it.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[jamieP]

I always thought you couldnt travel on a peak time train with a off peak ticket?

JP

 

[AM9]

I always thought you couldnt travel on a peak time train with a off peak ticket?

JP

There are plenty of exceptions, especially in the NSE area.

 

[headshot119]

I always thought you couldnt travel on a peak time train with a off peak ticket?

JP

There isn't really such a thing as a "peak time train", it is the ticket which defines what trains you can get on, not the train.

For example take a Wrexham General - Manchester Stations Off Peak Return (SVR) it is restriction code 8A allowing you to take any train after 04:30, so you can get on a train at 08:30 should you wish.

 

[NSEFAN]

I always thought you couldnt travel on a peak time train with a off peak ticket?

JP

This is the point. In the context of ticketing, there is no such thing as a peak time train. The ticket itself has restrictions, which may dictate that certain trains are not permitted for that ticket (this is usually expressed as a time period). Otherwise, the ticket is valid to use at any time on the permitted routes it can be used on.

 

[AlterEgo]

I would suggest that the original poster grows a thicker layer of skin. Every single organisation's staff who deal with the public have their own pet names for them, some more derogatory than others. We've had airline passengers referred to as self loading freight. F-4 pilots often referred to the Navigator in the back seat as ballast.

Best post on the topic.

 

[bramling]

I am a member of a commutor group on facebook and have been posting various information about the usage of tickets from Hockley, Rochford, Southend Aiport, Prittlewell and Southend Victoria on the c2c line.

There are some railway staff that participate in these group pouring scorn on the idea that passengers who pay a lot of money for their journeys might complain if the service that they recieve isn't up to scratch.

One such member of staff (who I understand is a signalman of thirty years standing) has got in to an argument with me about the "Rochford Travelcard" issue. The latest on the issue, as of last week, is that:

• c2c asked Greater Anglia to add a routeing restriction to the travelcard to prevent passengers using it on their trains;
• Greater Anglia applied to the DfT for permission to route the fares from Rochford via Shenfield;
• the DfT refused permission for this;
• Greater Anglia accepted this decision in September; and
• c2c confirmed that they accepted this decision last week and will be reprogramming their barriers at Southend Central.

Anyway, despite the above facts being true at the time of the argument, this member of staff keeps arguing with me. His arguments have included:


and



Just for good measure, he is one of "those" people who think that there is such a thing as a peak time train and that if I were to use a valid off-peak ticket on a peak time train, I should be given a penalty fare. When I provided him a link to the Paddington Gateline thread, his reaction was "And I'm not tapping on a link to a trainspotter rail forum."

Anyway, this guy deleted all his comments and had a tantrum, then sent a message to another user, and the message is as follows:


I'm not actually a commuter
But seriously, do signalman really just see passengers as bales of hay and chimps? Is that how they refer to us when making decisions about whether or not to run our trains on time?

Or is this just one signalman who hates passengers, who are ultimately the people that he is supposed to be running the railway for?

There will always be people in roles who aren't keen on the 'customer'.

I know drivers who absolutely hate the "animals" they carry around, such that they will do little things to make life unpleasant for them, like turn the heating off, or close the doors a little early in the hope of leaving people behind. Probably been going on since the days the railway opened, so nothing new.

 

[319321]

I wasn't really insulted by this person on facebook - the purpose of this thread was to find out if real signallers really did use such terms to refer to passengers. I could see them referring to passengers as bales of hay (as, at the end of the day we are just cargo being shunted around, although I didn't think hay was a railway cargo), but the "chimp" expression was a bit too outlandish.

I think the outcome is "Yes, signallers do use choice terms when referring to passengers" (which I would expect), but not that "they call passengers who complain about unfair treatment by railway staff chimps".

Which is what I though. This guy may even be trolling....after all, arguing with someone, then deleting all your posts to make them look like a "drunk arguing with himself on a roundabout" sounds like a real troll technique. I'll be ignoring his posts from now on (if indeed he is ever readmitted to the group).

 

[DarloRich]

I would suggest that the original poster grows a thicker layer of skin. Every single organisation's staff who deal with the public have their own pet names for them, some more derogatory than others. We've had airline passengers referred to as self loading freight. F-4 pilots often referred to the Navigator in the back seat as ballast.

this.

Clearly the comments shouldn't be aired in public but if employment anywhere is anything to go by there are always internal names for customers, both good and bad.

 

[WelshBluebird]

There will always be people in roles who aren't keen on the 'customer'.

I know drivers who absolutely hate the "animals" they carry around, such that they will do little things to make life unpleasant for them, like turn the heating off, or close the doors a little early in the hope of leaving people behind. Probably been going on since the days the railway opened, so nothing new.

Which is hilarious because if it wasn't for those "animals", then those drivers would not have a job.

Having a bitch and a moan is one thing, every single person who deals with some kind of "customer" in their job will do it at some point.

But to go so far as to "hate" them or do specific things to make life difficult, that is just doing yourself no favours surely? It is like the few ticket office staff who make it a pain to get certain tickets, they are really doing themselves no favours and are ultimately helping to put themselves out of a job!

 

[Flying_Turtle]

Mods please lock the thread now!

Why? Are you afraid of honest discussion?

People will be people with all sorts pf behaviour, some 9f which will be quite stressful to staff. By no means staff will generalizes this but cheaky references to passengers will happen as mental relief. (The first person who hasn t talked bad about his/hers beloved parents in a moment of rage please throw the first stone).
So.. one person, whoever it might be, doesn t make the industry and just because someone is politically correct regarding passengers doesn t mean it respects then... and v.v.

 

[Bromley boy]

Which is hilarious because if it wasn't for those "animals", then those drivers would not have a job.

Having a bitch and a moan is one thing, every single person who deals with some kind of "customer" in their job will do it at some point.

But to go so far as to "hate" them or do specific things to make life difficult, that is just doing yourself no favours surely? It is like the few ticket office staff who make it a pain to get certain tickets, they are really doing themselves no favours and are ultimately helping to put themselves out of a job!

I would suggest the activities described by Bramling are very, very rare. Leaving early and switching heating off to spite passengers? Both could be disciplinary offences and drivers, like most people, want an easy life!

In my experience the opposite is the case (and I've been in dozens of cabs with dozens of drivers over the last year). Drivers will often wait for passengers running for trains, re-release doors when people run onto the platform, deal with queries from passengers (which are potentially distracting).

Switching off heating in winter? Possibly on a rush hour train when everyone is wearing winter coats to stop people fainting!

Obviously passengers get annoyed when a late running train doesn't wait for them, when drivers have the temerity to stop at a 4 car mark when they are waiting at the 8 mark etc. Or heating may have failed which is often the cause of these kinds of stories...

 

[KTHV]

There will always be people in roles who aren't keen on the 'customer'.

I know drivers who absolutely hate the "animals" they carry around, such that they will do little things to make life unpleasant for them, like turn the heating off, or close the doors a little early in the hope of leaving people behind.

Or getting people to fold up bikes before entering the station platform area...

 

[nom de guerre]

I think the outcome is "Yes, signallers do use choice terms when referring to passengers" (which I would expect)

Eh? Have you actually read any of the signallers' replies?