EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[AM9]

We know we're all idiots - no need to keep repeating it.
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It never ends does it.

I don't know what 'it' is and there isn't a question mark at the end of your string of words so I maybe they are meant to be a rhetorical question.

 

[EM2]

Not really what Osborne predicted is it.

All taken from https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-companies/

Hewden

The machinery rental business went into administration blaming the Brexit vote for poor trading - and its three divisions were sold for £29m to listed rival Ashtead.

GM

The US automaker said it expects extra $300m in losses from Britain’s decision to leave EU and will cut car production in Europe.

Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors

Construction companies said UK infrastructure and housebuilding projects will be at risk if skilled builders from the EU are not allowed to remain in the country after Brexit.

Clydesdale and Yorkshire Banking Group

Clydesdale and Yorkshire Banking Group said it will cut more than £100m of costs, partly through branch closures, as it braces for tougher economic conditions after the Brexit vote.

PageGroup

Recruitment company PageGroup reduced its headcount in the UK by 3 per cent in the first half of the year in response to tougher trading conditions in the run-up to the EU membership referendum, as companies put hiring and investment plans on ice.

Goldman Sachs

The US bank warned that the UK’s vote to exit the EU could force it to “restructure” some of its UK activities.

Lloyds Banking Group

The UK high street bank it is to axe 3,000 jobs in a £1.4bn cost-cutting drive and damped the outlook for dividends following the vote to leave the EU.

VTB

The Russian bank has become the first big lender to say it will move its investment banking headquarters out of the UK because of the disruption expected by Brexit.

 

[AM9]

Dead right, we could have a million votes but until the Remainers win they will never ever accept it as they simply won't believe that everybody doesn't think like them because they're ignorant.

Didn't Farage express a similar determination for his cause when he felt that the referendum wasn't going his way?
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Talking about lies - did I miss the immediate profound economic shock that your lot made such a big thing of.

Well his timing was a bit awry but have patience; when the shops have to restock after the Christmas clear-out, the increased prices that they pay with the bargain basement sterling exchange rates will be passed right down to all of us. It might hurt a bit more than Toblerone bars with teeth missing, so the less well-off will need to tighten their belts.

 

[Barn]

All taken from https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-companies/

If you had bad news to report, wouldn't you blame it on Brexit too?

 

[ainsworth74]

I still find it peculiar that Remainers aren't allowed to say a thing without being accused of 'whinging' or 'trying to ignore/subvert the democratic process'. Are we not allowed to discuss things or argue against things we disagree with anymore? Is this what freedom from the EU means? We lose our freedom of thought and speech?

 

[EM2]

If you had bad news to report, wouldn't you blame it on Brexit too?

Not if it wasn't the cause, no.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you had bad news to report, wouldn't you blame it on Brexit too?

No, and I work in communications.

 

[Johnuk123]

I still find it peculiar that Remainers aren't allowed to say a thing without being accused of 'whinging' or 'trying to ignore/subvert the democratic process'. Are we not allowed to discuss things or argue against things we disagree with anymore? Is this what freedom from the EU means? We lose our freedom of thought and speech?

It's not at all peculiar because you are whinging and you certainly are trying desperately to subvert the democratic process by any means possible.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's not at all peculiar because you are whinging and you certainly are trying desperately to subvert the democratic process by any means possible.

I see. How am I subverting the democratic process? By engaging in a discussion? By being critical? By not blindly agreeing?

So does that mean I was right then? This is what Brexit means? The death of freedom of speech and thought? It certainly seems that way from the above if I'm no longer permitted to express my thought and speak my mind.

 

[Barn]

Not if it wasn't the cause, no.

So a referendum vote suddenly caused Hewden to collapse, and not the run of loss-making years you'll see in its filed accounts?

A referendum vote suddenly triggered a multi-billion pound restructure of Lloyds Bank, and a £100m restructure of Yorkshire Bank, which would have been in planning for months if not years as the banks seek to reduce their portfolio of surplus regional branches?

This is slightly naive. It is not a "communications" trick, it is standard practice when announcing 'bad' news to find any extraneous economic cause on which some responsibility can feasibly be placed.

I'm not suggesting that Brexit will have no impact. There are clearly some winners and some losers from the pound's recent fall. But if you track the word "Brexit" in company press releases and announcements, you'll find it in almost every one, and it will be effectively meaningless.

 

[Johnuk123]

I see. How am I subverting the democratic process? By engaging in a discussion? By being critical? By not blindly agreeing?

So does that mean I was right then? This is what Brexit means? The death of freedom of speech and thought? It certainly seems that way from the above if I'm no longer permitted to express my thought and speak my mind.

As leavers have been described on this forum and virtually everywhere else as xenophobic, racist and educationally backward I think calling remainers whingers is hardly the equivalent.
I use the expression you meaning you remainers I have no idea if you are a typical one or a more sensible one of which I'm sure there are some.

 

[Railops]

So a referendum vote suddenly caused Hewden to collapse, and not the run of loss-making years you'll see in its filed accounts?

A referendum vote suddenly triggered a multi-billion pound restructure of Lloyds Bank, and a £100m restructure of Yorkshire Bank, which would have been in planning for months if not years as the banks seek to reduce their portfolio of surplus regional branches?

This is slightly naive. It is not a "communications" trick, it is standard practice when announcing 'bad' news to find any extraneous economic cause on which some responsibility can feasibly be placed.

I'm not suggesting that Brexit will have no impact. There are clearly some winners and some losers from the pound's recent fall. But if you track the word "Brexit" in company press releases and announcements, you'll find it in almost every one, and it will be effectively meaningless.

They had an executive of Lloyds on the telly the other day and he admitted the job cutting had been 2-3 years in the pipeline.

 

[EM2]

It's not at all peculiar because you are whinging and you certainly are trying desperately to subvert the democratic process by any means possible.

But what means? What 'subversion' is going on?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

As leavers have been described on this forum and virtually everywhere else as xenophobic, racist and educationally backward I think calling remainers whingers is hardly the equivalent.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

[Trog]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

True but three lefts do.

 

[DarloRich]

As leavers have been described on this forum and virtually everywhere else as xenophobic, racist and educationally backward I think calling remainers whingers is hardly the equivalent.
I use the expression you meaning you remainers I have no idea if you are a typical one or a more sensible one of which I'm sure there are some.

I still don't understand how debating these points is subversive - could you clarify?

I find it odd that UKIPPERS seem keen to prevent our democratically elected representatives, forming our sovereign Parliament, from having a say or that most awful of things, a vote, on brexit. Is that not subverting the democratic process?

I am happy to accept that a majority voted for Brexit. I think that was stupid and showed a lack of education and intelligence but that is their right. I think many had no idea what they were voting for. They certainly wont get what they think they won.

What I do know is that it will be bad for all of us.

 

[Johnuk123]

I am happy to accept that a majority voted for Brexit. I think that was stupid and showed a lack of education and intelligence

Are all you extremely bad losers going to keep trumpeting this insult for ever as it's starting to get a bit tiresome.

 

[burneside]

I still don't understand how debating these points is subversive - could you clarify?

I find it odd that UKIPPERS seem keen to prevent our democratically elected representatives, forming our sovereign Parliament, from having a say or that most awful of things, a vote, on brexit. Is that not subverting the democratic process?

I am happy to accept that a majority voted for Brexit. I think that was stupid and showed a lack of education and intelligence but that is their right. I think many had no idea what they were voting for. They certainly wont get what they think they won.

What I do know is that it will be bad for all of us.

How do you know that? You have no idea what the country will be like in five or ten years' time as a result of Brexit.

 

[EM2]

Are all you extremely bad losers going to keep trumpeting this insult for ever as it's starting to get a bit tiresome.

It's what he thinks of the decision, not of those that made it.
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How do you know that? You have no idea what the country will be like in five or ten years' time as a result of Brexit.

The IFS and the OBR seem to agree.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...50-institute-for-fiscal-studies-a7437131.html

Every household will lose a staggering £1,250 a year because of the Brexit vote, independent forecasters say – as they painted a devastating picture of falling living standards, including no increase in real wages for at least another six years.

The respected Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) also warned that working families will be hit hardest by the unprecedented slump, with pensioners better protected.

Workers will suffer because of an expected 3.7 per cent fall in real earnings by the start of the next decade, compared with the pre-referendum forecast.

Crucially, the ultra-gloomy prediction only takes into account the uncertainty triggered by the June result – not the effect of any eventual Brexit deal, which is mired in confusion.

At its traditional post-Autumn Statement briefing, the IFS said the forecasts were based on the calculations made by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), the official Treasury watchdog.


IFS economist Andrew Hood said: “The OBR’s figures are for real GDP per household to be £1,250 lower in 2020-21, as a result of the vote to leave the EU.”

 

[meridian2]

Are all you extremely bad losers going to keep trumpeting this insult for ever as it's starting to get a bit tiresome.

Agreed.

There is no need to denigrate those who voted out as 'unintelligent with a lack of education'. That argument cuts both ways.

 

[overthewater]

I like how the Remain camp are now tell everyone what we did and didn't vote for, yet before the vote there main clear we were, and you wonder why everyone confused.

 

[DarloRich]

Are all you extremely bad losers going to keep trumpeting this insult for ever as it's starting to get a bit tiresome.

Agreed.

There is no need to denigrate those who voted out as 'unintelligent with a lack of education'. That argument cuts both ways.

still no answer to the subverting question I see............

Nothing as unedifying as a bad winner eh

On the education point it is worth noting the demographic results indicate that areas where more residents had higher education qualifications moved sharply to Remain, while areas where people had no/few formal qualifications were more likely to vote Leave.
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How do you know that? You have no idea what the country will be like in five or ten years' time as a result of Brexit.

we have, voluntarily, removed ourselves from a massive free trade zone without barriers and tariffs. How can that not end badly? The kippers seem to think the empire will ride to the rescue and buy our stuff out of some form of patriotism for the mother country.

here is a hint - they wont.

 

[Johnuk123]

Are you saying that Blair, Farron, Brown, Clegg, Mandelson etc. aren't trying to subvert the vote ?

 

[DarloRich]

Are you saying that Blair, Farron, Brown, Clegg, Mandelson etc. aren't trying to subvert the vote ?

HOW? How are they trying to do that? Are they not doing exactly what good old Nige did for years?

 

[Johnuk123]

HOW? How are they trying to do that? Are they not doing exactly what good old Nige did for years?

So by pushing for a new referendum to overturn the original one (which they have all called for) you would say that is not subversion ?

 

[PHILIPE]

I still don't understand how debating these points is subversive - could you clarify?

I find it odd that UKIPPERS seem keen to prevent our democratically elected representatives, forming our sovereign Parliament, from having a say or that most awful of things, a vote, on brexit. Is that not subverting the democratic process?

I am happy to accept that a majority voted for Brexit. I think that was stupid and showed a lack of education and intelligence but that is their right. I think many had no idea what they were voting for. They certainly wont get what they think they won.

What I do know is that it will be bad for all of us.

I assume that Brexiteers being stupid etc. is just your opinion rather than an insulting fact.

 

[DarloRich]

I assume that Brexiteers being stupid etc. is just your opinion rather than an insulting fact.

I know we live in a post fact world ( encouraged by Brexit) but please do try to note that I think the decision taken by many people was a stupid one. It is their right and I respect that.

So by pushing for a new referendum to overturn the original one (which they have all called for) you would say that is not subversion ?

So Nigel Fargage in basing his entire political career on gaining a referendum on leaving the EU was in no way subverting the democratic process but people doing exactly the same to try and further their political views are subverting the democratic process.

Is that really your argument?

 

[Johnuk123]

So Nigel Fargage in basing his entire political career on gaining a referendum on leaving the EU was in no way subverting the democratic process but people doing exactly the same to try and further their political views are subverting the democratic process.

We never had a referendum on creating a political block so NF was quite within his rights to campaign to leave it.
This time it's entirely different we've had one to Leave and now we're told we should simply have another one as the first went the wrong way.
When Ashdown was asked last week if a new vote went to Remain would we need a best of 3 decider - "absolutely not" he replied.

 

[meridian2]

The point is personal insults are unnecessary, and is a sign that you've lost the argument. That is, if you had a cogent argument to make in the first place.

It's worth nothing that in all these EU referendum debates, the insults come from one side...

 

[DarloRich]

We never had a referendum on creating a political block so NF was quite within his rights to campaign to leave it.
This time it's entirely different we've had one to Leave and now we're told we should simply have another one as the first went the wrong way.
When Ashdown was asked last week if a new vote went to Remain would we need a best of 3 decider - "absolutely not" he replied.

and you don't see your position as a touch hypocritical then?

You are saying that it is OK to campaign to have a referendum to leave the EU but not ok to campaign to have a referendum on what that leaving looks like AND in doing so you subvert democracy but your champion Farage didn't subvert democracy in asking for his referendum?