[TRIVIA] Longest continuous use of same number for a service

[jp4712]

What candidates can we think of for a long-lasting bus service with the same or substantially same route and the same service number? We may need to split this between London and outside London, given the upheaval outside London in 1986.

Some routes were given new numbers and reverted again later - doesn't count. Or a route with the same terminal point(s) and same number, but substantially different route - doesn't count. Some routes were given a prefix, e.g. 12 to 512 - doesn't count.

My nomination would be the 17 between Rochdale and Manchester - it began as a long Bacup - Flixton service on 3 March 1930, then was curtailed at both ends to the form it's still seen in to this day on 24 October 1932. It has run for the last 84 years with no service number change and no route changes beyond those driven by one way streets at each end etc.

When did the Birmingham 11A/11C take their current form? And when did London's 11 take its current form?

 

[swifty]

The number 1 in Bristol officially started in 1938 between Brislington and Westbury on Trym and has now been extended to operate between Broomhill and Cribbs Causeway.

 

[jp4712]

Wikipedia says that the Birmingham Outer Circle 11A/11C reached pretty much its current form on 26 April 1926, so assuming that's correct it's the winner so far.

 

[duncanp]

Found this on line

http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/bus-map-for-north-london-from-the-1920s

It contains a link to a bus map for the London General Omnibus company winter 1919/1920.

This shows the 11 running from Liverpool Street towards Victoria along the same route as it does today, similarly with the 73 running from Stoke Newington into Central London and also the 41 running from Tottenham Hale to Archway.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The 406 between Epsom and Kingston must be a contender?

 

[duncanp]

The 406 between Epsom and Kingston must be a contender?

http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/406.html

is a useful article detailing the history of the 406.

Start date was 5th June 1920 between Epsom and Redhill, with an extension to Kingston on 14th April 1922.

However the number 406 did not come into use until 1st December 1924.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/406.html

is a useful article detailing the history of the 406.

Start date was 5th June 1920 between Epsom and Redhill, with an extension to Kingston on 14th April 1922.

However the number 406 did not come into use until 1st December 1924.

I thought it was route 24 in London (since 1910). The Bristol route 1 was a tram route also numbered 1 IIRC

 

[Marc]

i think midlands red / first 144 worcester - birmingham has been the same route number for over 100 years now? there was defenitiely a centenery celebrated recently.

 

[Robertj21a]

I would have thought the Brighton & Hove 1, 2, 5 and 6 would all be candidates being still the same route numbers and covering much the same route for about 100 years - Brighton Hove & Preston/Tillings were certainly operating them by 1915.

 

[Strathclyder]

As far as Greater Glasgow is concerned, the No.34 (Govan - Castlemilk) & 46 (Easterhouse - Castlemilk) services have both used the same number continuously for over 50 years (since at least 1963) with little changes to the routes themselves.

 

[KendalKing]

What about the 555 Lancaster - Keswick, this route has been going for over 50-years to my knowledge.

 

[lightning76]

I believe Maidstone & District started their services with letters - then realised they would run out of letters fairly quickly and switched to numbers. So - IIRC - numbers 1 to 15 are pretty original, those that survive - 1 is now 101, 3 now 333, but I think 5, 6, 7, 10 (now Stagecoach 10/510), 12, 13 (now an independent) should be pretty much unchanged since the early days, at least over part of the original routes.

Brighton - Eastbourne route 12 is also a long standing route. Eastbourne to Hastings 99 would probably date to the opening of the straight new road across Pevensey Levels replacing the twisting Barnhorn Lane - possibly late 20's or early 30's?

 

[Marc]

Brighton - Eastbourne route 12 is also a long standing route. Eastbourne to Hastings 99 would probably date to the opening of the straight new road across Pevensey Levels replacing the twisting Barnhorn Lane - possibly late 20's or early 30's?

Eastbourne - Hastings 99 spent a fair few years as 711 and 710 around the turn of the millennium before reverting to its traditional number.

 

[freetoview33]

From what I gather, the same company (Or a sister company of) has operated Horse Drawn Carriages, Trams and Buses along route 1 in Bristol since 1875, yes it has been extended a lot, but it has had the number's 1 and 2 since it's been numbered.

From what I gather legal it has been with

Bristol Tramways Company
Bristol Tramways & Carriage Company
Bristol Omnibus Company

Same legal company 1875-1986 then it gets a bit complicated!

In 1986 the county ops were rebranded to Badgerline and was subject to a management buyout.

In 1987 the Cityline ops were sold to Midland Red.

In 1988 Badgerline bought Midland Red, so both were back under the same company once more!

In 1996 Badgerline merged with GRT Group to form First Group.

Then in 2001 Badgerline became First Cityline (Now First Bristol) and Cityline became First Somerset & Avon.

So the route did legal change operators back in 2001! But only to a sister company and since then both have become even closer, and it is thought that one day they will once again merge back into one company. But yes still the same legal company set up in 1875!

So 141 years!

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Until eariler this year when it was withdrawn, the 517 which ran Saturday's only between Halifax and Burnley via Blackshaw Edge. There has been a bus service going that way for 90 something years, originally it was a Hebble route.

 

[Andyh82]

Until eariler this year when it was withdrawn, the 517 which ran Saturday's only between Halifax and Burnley via Blackshaw Edge. There has been a bus service going that way for 90 something years, originally it was a Hebble route.

Not using that number though, it would have been 17 presumably before 1977ish

 

[CatfordCat]

Lincolnshire Road Car introduced route numbers in 1934 and a few are still in use by Stagecoach Lincolnshire -

1 (Lincoln - Grantham) although it became 601 in the 1980s under MAP and only reverted to route 1 relatively recently.

6 (Lincoln - Skegness) and 10 (Lincoln - Louth) have (I think) avoided re-numbering.

Stagecoach services 5 and 8 in Lincoln are developments of Lincoln Corporation motor bus routes 5 (St Giles) and 8 (Newport via Cathedral) introduced in 1921 and 1927 respectively - again, I think both numbers have been in constant use although the exact routes have varied a lot over the years.

 

[Lrd]

Bluestar (Solent Blue Line) 18 in Southampton has been the same for as long as I can remember, running from Thornhill to Millbrook via Bitterne, Northam and Shirley. Must be at least 15/20 years old if not more.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/406.html

is a useful article detailing the history of the 406.

Start date was 5th June 1920 between Epsom and Redhill, with an extension to Kingston on 14th April 1922.

However the number 406 did not come into use until 1st December 1924.

So that's 92 years continuous to date; not bad is it?

 

[Busaholic]

I thought it was route 24 in London (since 1910). The Bristol route 1 was a tram route also numbered 1 IIRC

The 24 was introduced between Hampstead Heath and Victoria Station in 1910 and extended to Pimlico in 1912, a route it still follows. There appears to be a great reluctance at senior management level to alter this arrangement, despite the 24 having had more changes of operators since privatisation than any other Central London route, reflecting its poor performance for much of the time. The number of passengers from the Pimlico area wanting to go any further than Warren Street must be low indeed, and the Victoria Line caters for many of these already. Whitehall disruptions usually lead to the 24 having to be run as two separate services, which in the days of tendering and only one garage per route (in general) means great extra cost and inefficiency. There are many other London routes with a provenance approaching the 24 e.g. the 16 and 38, but in many cases they have been tinkered with or even suffered major surgery, although some were later restored at least partially.

 

[Statto]

26-27 Liverpool Outer Circle, or Sheil Road Circular been going must be 100 years, first route converted to bus from tram in Liverpool in the 1940s.

 

[anti-pacer]

In my lifetime (42 years) I can remember the following services being the same;

25 Ilford-Victoria (although now to Oxford Circus)
86 Romford-Stratford
168 Debden-Barking (although now to Ilford).

Up here in West Yorkshire...

25 Keighley-Burnley ... until recently. Now the Mr
72 Bradford-Leeds
X6 Huddersfield-Bradford-Leeds
508 Halifax-Leeds
670 Bradford-Leeds
760 Keighley-Leeds

There's probably a lot more around here that are the same. Others that have stayed the same from as far back as I can remember, in other areas are;

8 Bolton-Manchester
152 Burnley-Preston
192 Hazel Grove-Manchester

 

[DunsBus]

Lothian's bus service 23 between Trinity and Greenbank runs for the most part over the route of tram service 23, which it replaced on the evening of 16th November 1956 (the date when the final two remaining Edinburgh Corporation tram services, 23 and 28 were replaced by buses).

The tram service 23 ran between Granton Road Station and the Belhaven Terrace terminus in Morningside; the replacement bus service 23 initially followed the exact same route as the tram service, extended a few hundred yards along the road to a new turning circle at Balcarres Street.

In 1960 the 23 was diverted at Goldenacre to serve Trinity, which it still does to this day. The route in Morningside has varied since 1986 but has always served Balcarres Street, either direct or as part of a loop which also served Craighouse Campus; presently buses on the 23 serve Balcarres Street on their way to and from Greenbank, where the route was extended to some years ago.

SMT had their own competing service 23 for a number of years, which started off as an evening and Sunday tender at deregulation in 1986 after Lothian registered the 23 to run only during the day. After Lothian decided to reinstate the evening and Sunday timetable commercially the following September, the SMT tender was cancelled by the council. However, SMT continued to run the former contract journeys which meant that from around 7pm on Mondays to Saturdays and all day on Sundays there were two competing service 23s and a few weeks later SMT added a daytime service.
From early-1990 SMT diverted their service 23 at Goldenacre to run to East Pilton, linking there with another post-deregulation service, the C2 and in doing do passing the original terminus of the (ECT/Lothian) service 23 en-route at Granton Road Station - by then demolished, but (still) listed as a fare stage on Lothian's timetables. The linked C2 and 23 became service C23 in 1991 and was withdrawn in late-1994 following a deal with Lothian which saw SMT pull out of most of Edinburgh and Lothian withdraw from West Lothian. A few months prior to the C23's withdrawal, Lothian began operation of a competing service, 37, which was amended to cover the C23 route after that service was withdrawn, thus also following the same route as that taken by the tram-replacement bus service 23 in 1956. For a number of years, before it was withdrawn in 2000, the 37 was interworked with the 23 at the Morningside end.

In 2001 First decided that they would carry on where SMT left off in 1994 and started a competing service 23 over the full route between Trinity and Craighouse, initially during the day and after a few months an evening and Sunday service was added. However, this time Lothian upped the ante by registering a "frequent timetable" with buses running every few minutes, and the First version of the 23 lasted less than a year.

 

[Volvodart]

First Aberdeen's Bridges route 1 (Bridge of Dee to Bridge of Don) has been going from when it was a horse drawn tramcar route since at least 1896, although probably since some years before that, although it was not numbered until 1926.

 

[madannie77]

Sheffield's first bus route was to Lodge Moor and started in 1913. When route numbers in 1926 it was numbered 51, and the bus to Lodge Moor is still the 51, albeit with an extension through the city added on.

Another Sheffield route numbered in 1926 was the 57 to Stocksbridge which also survives, but with a different routing between Hillsborough & Oughtibridge.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Lincolnshire Road Car introduced route numbers in 1934 and a few are still in use by Stagecoach Lincolnshire -

1 (Lincoln - Grantham) although it became 601 in the 1980s under MAP and only reverted to route 1 relatively recently.

6 (Lincoln - Skegness) and 10 (Lincoln - Louth) have (I think) avoided re-numbering.

Stagecoach services 5 and 8 in Lincoln are developments of Lincoln Corporation motor bus routes 5 (St Giles) and 8 (Newport via Cathedral) introduced in 1921 and 1927 respectively - again, I think both numbers have been in constant use although the exact routes have varied a lot over the years.

what aobut
LRCC Lincoln route 2 to Branston via Washingborough and Heighington although the exact route has varied over the years ...

Numbering Lincoln is complicated by the way in which the City ' Centre' of Lincoln is actully rather to the south east of the City council area and other than a small incursion anything to the south of the B1190 Washingborough road is in NK

http://www.lgbce.org.uk/__data/assets/image/0007/24676/Lincoln-summary-map.jpg

pre 1986 this meant the 2 was a LRCC 'county' route rather than a corporation city route despite not straying more more than a couple of miles from where the high st and st Marys street crosses at 'Halfords corner' ...

 

[enrag2000]

What about the 555 Lancaster - Keswick, this route has been going for over 50-years to my knowledge.

No it hasn't, Lancaster-Keswick was service 68 until the mid-70s until which time 555 was used for Kendal-Keswick short journeys. There are very few ex-Ribble services with original service numbers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There's probably a lot more around here that are the same. Others that have stayed the same from as far back as I can remember, in other areas are;

8 Bolton-Manchester
152 Burnley-Preston
192 Hazel Grove-Manchester

152 is a completely different service from the original Ribble 152 as it runs via Higher Walton and Feniscowles instead of the direct route to Blackburn now Stagecoach 59.

192 was 92 in Manchester & Stockport Corporations days and became 192 under Selnec.

 

[CatfordCat]

what aobut
LRCC Lincoln route 2 to Branston via Washingborough and Heighington although the exact route has varied over the years ...

I did think about that one - although the Branston route started out as the 2A, a variation of the Lincoln - Sleaford route 2.

As regards London routes, while (as mentioned above) route 24 is the longest established route running between its original termini, route numbering in London started in 1906 when Vanguard started numbering its routes - today's route 2 (albeit with some changes over the years) is one of the originals.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

I did think about that one - although the Branston route started out as the 2A, a variation of the Lincoln - Sleaford route 2.

what route did the 2 to Sleaford take out of lincoln ? is the Washingborough -Heighington - Branston 2 just a short working of that route ?

i.e. compared to the 631/ 31 that goes straight up the B1188 Canwick hill and through Branston (and as the 631 straight through along the B1188) mainly along the main road ( Lincoln rd / High st / Sleaford road)

 

[Rick1984]

A1 buses Ayrshire number 11, Kilmarnock to Adrossan?