Ticket bought online not avilable to collect

[tankmc]

Hi All. I have a situation and wondered if anyone can help with any insight.

The short version is essentially i want a refund because my ticket reference was not recognised at the station but i'm been charged for the refund.

----

The Long version:

I bought a ticket online this morning 1 hour before i was due to depart. I dont usually do this but thought it would be easier as i was buying two legs separately as it was cheaper. I buy though virgin trains because i get cashback and points. The ticket machine i was going to use is Great Northern.

I went to the station and the machine said that the booking reference was not in the system or something. So i went to the ticket office and the guy in the office said the same thing. I asked what can i do i needed to get the next train and he simply said its not there fault but the virgin trains. He also said i needed to wait 2 hours even though virgin trains website says 15 minutes. The ticket offices advice was just to call virgin.

By this point the train i needed was gone and i have missed my meeting so it was pointless me travelling. I called virgin and was but though to an Indian call centre. This is not bashing indian call centres but i despise the practice as they have no sense of the railways in the UK and you basically end up speaking to someone reading a script.

I explained my situation and that i would like a refund because i dont need the tickets now. He said that he can refund me but a £20 charge will apply, because it comes up as two bookings. I explained that it was not my fault and i should not be penalised because of their systems fault. Insead he just kept repeating the same script over and over in an eternal loop. We did this about 6 or 7 times....

Customer Services (CS): "I'm sorry but the tickets where available and the station staff should have issued them."

Me: "They was not available, the station staff tried and told me to call you. Could i please just get a refund as i missed my train."

CS: "You can get the next train, i can check the times for you"

Me: "No. because i have missed my meeting now. Can i please just get a refund."

CS: "Yes but as it states in the terms and conditions there is a charge of £10."

Me: "I dont believe i should pay the charge as it was not my fault that the tickets where not ready. I tried to get them but couldn't and now i have missed my train."

CS: "I'm sorry but the tickets where available and the station staff should have issued that"

and the loop starts again....

I was passed to a manager and ended up in the same loop.


I wondered if i have any way to not pay the fee. I know its not alot but to me it is and it's the fact that i'm been penalised for their service not working. Great Northern are blaming Virgin and Virgin are blaming GN.

Frustrated!

 

[KTHV]

So you had a meeting you knew about a while in advance - but only bothered to sort out train travel 60 minutes before departing?

Pretty poor preparation to be honest.

And isn't the VT Call Centre actually based in Newcastle?

 

[AlterEgo]

Virgin and many other ticket retailers do specify a two hour delay time before you may be able to collect your tickets, for anti fraud purposes.

Did you buy a ticket based against an itinerary? This would strengthen your case.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Virgin and many other ticket retailers do specify a two hour delay time before you may be able to collect your tickets, for anti fraud purposes.

It's not for anti-fraud purposes, as if it was the others wouldn't allow immediate collection and indeed promote this fact. It's just because the rapidly ageing Trainline back-end only puts the tickets in the database on a 2-hourly batch cycle. It can take 5 minutes, it can take 2 hours, depending on when you hit that cycle.

OP - Quite possibly the call centre staff were right - by the time you called them it may well have been in the database.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's not for anti-fraud purposes, as if it was the others wouldn't allow immediate collection and indeed promote this fact. It's just because the rapidly ageing Trainline back-end only puts the tickets in the database on a 2-hourly batch cycle. It can take 5 minutes, it can take 2 hours, depending on when you hit that cycle.

OP - Quite possibly the call centre staff were right - by the time you called them it may well have been in the database.

Seems strange. I was the TL account liaison for two TOCs and have never heard of the batch explanation! (I don't claim that you're wrong though). It is true that during that time bookings are scanned for suspicious activity.

 

[tankmc]

Virgin and many other ticket retailers do specify a two hour delay time before you may be able to collect your tickets, for anti fraud purposes.

Did you buy a ticket based against an itinerary? This would strengthen your case.

Not according to Virgin's website and the email i was sent. it specifically said it would be available 15 minutes after booking.

And yes i did choose a service.

So you had a meeting you knew about a while in advance - but only bothered to sort out train travel 60 minutes before departing?

Pretty poor preparation to be honest.

And isn't the VT Call Centre actually based in Newcastle?

Well the call centre i spoke to was clearly not in the UK. The meeting was only decided overnight. I was just going to buy a ticket form the station but when i checked the times i saw i could split at cambridge and save £14 so i decided to just book while i was on the website. I wouldnt have bothered if it said that it would take 2 hours. But since it said 15 minutes i thought that a hour would be enough time. I have tried to call virgins customer services as the call centre told me to but all i get is a answer machine.

 

[AlterEgo]

Not according to Virgin's website and the email i was sent. it specifically said it would be available 15 minutes after booking.

And yes i did choose a service.

I think you have an open and shut case if the ticket was sold on an itinerary like that. Was it VTEC or VTWC you used?

I can confident you will get a refund minus admin fee.

 

[tankmc]

I think you have an open and shut case if the ticket was sold on an itinerary like that. Was it VTEC or VTWC you used?

I can confident you will get a refund minus admin fee.

Does anyone know anyone else i can speak to.

The booking call centre told me to call the customer services.

Customer services told me to go on live chat.

Live chat has said that customer services is no longer taking calls.

 

[Bletchleyite]

VTEC uses WebTIS (I think), should work within 15 minutes (and some TOCs make a deliberate point of selling that - so they get the commission).

VTWC uses Trainline, can take up to 2 hours on a batch.

Isn't as simple as a mistranscribed reference number is it?

 

[BestWestern]

Have you considered a Tweet? This may result in the UK-based social media bods directing your case to someone more helpful.

I would also email Great Northern, and ask them to clarify that their TVMs do indeed require a two hour period between booking tickets and them becoming available for collection. This provides evidence that Virgin's website is wrong. Do check the site again first, to be absolutely certain that the wording is general and doesn't refer specifically to Virgin's own TVMs.

As a last resort, email somebody high up, either the MD or perhaps head of customer services or similar. Stress in the email that you are doing so as a last resort and out of sheer exasperation at a total lack of understanding from customer service, and because there appears to be no other avenue available. This shows that you are genuine, not just somebody self important who wants to jump the queue


Best of luck!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The *TVMs* won't require that. They connect to the system each time a booking is retrieved - bookings are not batch-downloaded to TVMs.

It's the Trainline-based booking engines (and only those ones) that require it.

 

[BestWestern]

The *TVMs* won't require that. They connect to the system each time a booking is retrieved - bookings are not batch-downloaded to TVMs.

It's the Trainline-based booking engines (and only those ones) that require it.

Ah, I see! Well, still a confirmation of the 'general rule', then?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah, I see! Well, still a confirmation of the 'general rule', then?

If it's being quoted as a rule for the supplier the OP used, confirming it would be a good start, yes.

 

[swt_passenger]

Last year I had two emails from Trainline/SWT referring to the same online ticket purchase, and they had completely different instructions to the "printable confirmation" page on the website:

The two identical confirmation emails included this section:

You can collect your ticket(s) at the Self Service Ticket Machine at WINCHESTER. Ticket(s) will be ready for collection 2 hours after booking.
To collect tickets you'll need to key in your collection reference number and bring the card you used to make the booking.
If you do not have the card you used to pay for your booking you will need to buy a new ticket at the fare available on the day of your journey.
Please ensure you collect all your tickets and receipt as they can not be replaced and you will need them to travel.

The printable confirmation from the SWT booking website was different and included this:

Tickets will be ready for collection 15 minute(s) after booking
Collect your ticket(s) from the ticket machine at Winchester.
You will need your collection reference number and any valid debit/credit card to collect your tickets. (for ID only, it will not be charged)

I suspect trainline produced the emails based on their standard two hour delay, but SWT must have hoped it was working faster than that...

I did report this at the time, but as usual the first response just didn't really understand the question, trying to say that SWT were not responsible for third party retailers. :roll:

 

[Bletchleyite]

That inconsistency is alarming, as it makes quite a big difference to whether booking on your phone on the way to the station is a useful thing to do or not.

 

[swt_passenger]

Recent bookings via the SWT website result in an 'image heavy' email that includes the requirement to use the same card, but doesn't mention a time. However links to the ticket purchase section of their website are provided where it does still mention this two hour dead time.

However when in the online planner and ticket purchase procedure they do not allow selection of a train with a departure time that is within the two hours of the current time, so the two hour delay is implied by the procedure...

 

[WelshBluebird]

Not sure of Virgin but I know GWR say within 1 hour (but in reality it is 15 mins in my experience).

Interestingly, GWR also say that if you cannot collect the tickets then ask the station staff for help, and if there are no staff then just board the train anyway. Wonder what about the case where there are staff but they won't help!

 

[tankmc]

After contacting them on social media and sending a message asking them to call me i have had two people call me back.

After explaining my situation he was very dismissive saying that i should have left more time for the booking to be added to the system.

But at the end of the day he couldnt argue with the fact there emails and website say that the ticket will be ready 15 minutes after booking and therefore issued a refund.

While i am happy to get it sorted, i can say dealing with there customer services team has been dreadful.

Firstly i dont think any rail call centres should be overseas. They do not have the knowledge about the UK rail network, they do not have any power to be flexible or make a judgement that could contradict there terms and finally they dont have the language skills which aggravates a situation. It was clear they was reading a script leading to us going round in a loop with the different operators saying the same thing word for word.

Second the fact that i took me 3 hours to just talk to a person via many different avenues is disgusting. While i am happy he resolved my situation he did it in a very dismissive and frank rude attitude.

They really need to change the 15 minute message to 2 hours. While i may only take 15 minutes most times, they need to manage peoples expectations.

Thank you everyone for your replies.

 

[northwichcat]

So you had a meeting you knew about a while in advance - but only bothered to sort out train travel 60 minutes before departing?

Pretty poor preparation to be honest.

Not necessarily. If the meeting gets rescheduled and you have an advance ticket or seat reservations then they might be useless even if the meeting is only moved by half an hour.

 

[markindurham]

This is a crazy system, but the email stating that the tickets would be available after 15 mins should make this a given for a full refund, surely? As an aside, why are folk still using TheTrainLine? I usually use TPE (and get Nectar points) or book direct on occasion. No commission fees either, unlike TTL - unless that's now changed? TTL ss part of Beardyrail anyway, isn't it? Another reason to avoid it if possible...

 

[AlterEgo]

This is a crazy system, but the email stating that the tickets would be available after 15 mins should make this a given for a full refund, surely? As an aside, why are folk still using TheTrainLine? I usually use TPE (and get Nectar points) or book direct on occasion. No commission fees either, unlike TTL - unless that's now changed? TTL ss part of Beardyrail anyway, isn't it? Another reason to avoid it if possible...

The OP wasn't using the Trainline site but a TOC site powered by them.

 

[Clip]

Do you have a screen shot of the email confirming this? Its a muddle as one of their sites says one thing and the other the other from memory

 

[philthetube]

So you had a meeting you knew about a while in advance - but only bothered to sort out train travel 60 minutes before departing?

Pretty poor preparation to be honest.

And isn't the VT Call Centre actually based in Newcastle?

Where the call centre is located relevant.

The rest of this post is non constructive criticism for the sake of it, why bother to waste your time and make everyone else think "what an idiot". yes I know this is criticism but it is made in the hope that you may stop and think before posting. why the op left it late before buying tickets is irrelevant to the topic and to criticise the op only serves to dissuade others from posting.

 

[Starmill]

The question for me is, why would you buy train tickets more than 60 minutes prior to a meeting if it may be cancelled? The OP is paying for the flexibility to buy the ticket and get straight onto the train. Buying a walk-up ticket before around an hour of your journey is daft, you might not use it and have to pay the £10 fee to refund it.

 

[jacksonbang]

I had a similar situation in the summer when I purchased an Advance Virgin Trains ticket from Euston to Liverpool. Purchased about 2 weeks prior, I went to pick up the ticket at Euston about an hour before my trip and was given some sort of "no journey relates to this booking code" message. I tried it again, I tried it on a different machine then found a member of staff who just told me I had typed in the code incorrectly. I (finally) got him to come with me - showed him my confirmation email with the code - tried to collect tickets again, he saw it didn't work and then took my tablet out of my hand and started scrolling the email. He asked me if it was "real" and then got me to try yet again, he then said "I don't know...you have a problem" and that I will have to "go to a desk" and just walked away.

At the desk I spent 20 minutes - lots of calls were made by the person at the till, I had to show her not only my email but proof money was taken from my account. Several times. I answered all the questions, fully expecting a replacement ticket - I didn't - I was told I had to buy a new ticket. Something like 82 pounds for a Standard single - my First advance has ceased to exist. All the time there was an air of suspicion of me.

The reason I am telling you this is complain. Write to Virgin - I heard nothing for 6 weeks and then in the space of a week I got three letters all the same but different case numbers with a pretty standard cut-and-paste apology but with a complimentary First Class ticket valid anywhere on VT for a year. I was also rung by someone from Virgin who apologised for the treatment and accepted the booking did exist but there was an issue with the batch procedure at the time I booked. Or something.

Complain.

 

[najaB]

The question for me is, why would you buy train tickets more than 60 minutes prior to a meeting if it may be cancelled?

The thing is, all meetings can be cancelled. Which makes the question "Why buy walk-up tickets online more than 60 minutes prior to departure?" Convenience and being able to tick it off the list of things to do would be my answer.

 

[Starmill]

Pretty minor factors to risk £10(*2) for, plus buying online is not more convenient than buying at the machine. And the OP came in for immense criticism for making that judgement, which was completely unjustified.

 

[bb21]

Nothing wrong with not buying tickets until ready to go, so I don't think this criticism is certainly unwarranted.

That said, if I were to buy tickets last-minute, I would get to the station in good time and buy from the ticket office/machine. Buying online last-minute means little chance sorting it out if there is a problem, but that is just my personal preference. I certainly would not crucify someone for doing so, when the TOCs themselves claim to have them ready in as little as 15 minutes.

 

[gray1404]

I think you should try to claim the money back from your credit card company.

 

[furlong]

the TOCs themselves claim to have them ready in as little as 15 minutes.

When I last tested it, I found I had to wait 30 seconds after completion of the (webtis-based) transaction before being able to collect the tickets.