Preserved railways with considerable expansion opportunities/potential

[alexl92]

I know we've discussed some railways' expansion plans before but I was recently reading about the Churnet Valley Railway (CVR) on Wikipedia and was surprised to find that they could potentially expand in four different directions, effectively creating a small network, if it could be made to work.

I'd never really thought about this before but I was suprised at this as many heritage railways are build on old branchlines with the potential to extend a bit in one or two directions (in the latter case usually a little at each end), but not much more.

Do any other Heritage lines have the potential to expand significantly on their current line, and in particular are there any which, like the CVR may be able to do so along multiple lines?

 

[A0]

I know we've discussed some railways' expansion plans before but I was recently reading about the Churnet Valley Railway (CVR) on Wikipedia and was surprised to find that they could potentially expand in four different directions, effectively creating a small network, if it could be made to work.

I'd never really thought about this before but I was suprised at this as many heritage railways are build on old branchlines with the potential to extend a bit in one or two directions (in the latter case usually a little at each end), but not much more.

Do any other Heritage lines have the potential to expand significantly on their current line, and in particular are there any which, like the CVR may be able to do so along multiple lines?

Do you mean those which have already declared aspirations to extend their routes - I'd count the CVR among those - or do you mean those which the crayonistas think should be a scheme and is unlikely to happen this side of hell freezing over?

In the former, I'd also add the GCR's 'Bridging the gap' and Mountsorrel branch.

Also the Norfolk Orbital idea which would lead to extensions to both the NNR and MNR.

If you're in 'crayonista' land - then the Nene Valley to either Leicester or Rugby. At a push the NVR might in the future be able to get to Oundle, but I'm not sure much further.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Bodmin & Wenford in Cornwall- reinstatement a fair possibility from Boscarne Junction to Wadebridge, eventually continuing to Padstow would be a dream, though probably quite unlikely, also Boscarne to Wenford Bridge, at one time proposed but now even less likely than Padstow.

 

[JohnElliott]

The Bluebell has plans to extend west along the Ardingly branch, and in the very long term (~50 years) could head south in the direction of Lewes.

For the truly dedicated crayonist, it's theoretically possible also to extend it to Lindfield in the west and Uckfield in the east (along the never-built Ouse Valley route) and to Crawley Down by putting in a chord to the southwest of East Grinstead.

I recall that in the early 1990s there was an article in one of the railway magazines which imagined the Bluebell doing all this (plus East Grinstead - Tunbridge Wells and more) by 2001, running steam Sheffield Park - East Grinstead, Sprinters Tunbridge Wells - Three Bridges - Gatwick Airport, and Pacers on all the other bits.

 

[CarltonA]

The GWSR (Toddington) is currently being extended to Broadway with the rebuilt station mostly in place. There is some scope to go further into Cheltenham from the racecourse station. At the northern end there is already some provision at Honeybourne for a platform should they ever reach that far. The line could even head further north towards Stratford. I'm not saying it will happen, except for the Broadway bit that is.

 

[alexl92]

Do you mean those which have already declared aspirations to extend their routes - I'd count the CVR among those - or do you mean those which the crayonistas think should be a scheme and is unlikely to happen this side of hell freezing over?

Really I was thinking about realistic possibilities - even if the railway hasn't expressed interest in doing it yet, but equally interested in the fantasies! I know for example that the NYMR getting south through Pickering isn't realistic at all.

 

[Mvann]

Do you mean those which have already declared aspirations to extend their routes - I'd count the CVR among those - or do you mean those which the crayonistas think should be a scheme and is unlikely to happen this side of hell freezing over?

In the former, I'd also add the GCR's 'Bridging the gap' and Mountsorrel branch.

Also the Norfolk Orbital idea which would lead to extensions to both the NNR and MNR.

If you're in 'crayonista' land - then the Nene Valley to either Leicester or Rugby. At a push the NVR might in the future be able to get to Oundle, but I'm not sure much further.

Nene valley could actually get to the outskirts of market harborough at a push. The last time I looked it was possible to get the market harborough by pass, but very difficult to get much further, mainly due to the gradients to get past the bypass, assuming that they won't allow a level crossing there.
Oundle is the limit the other way without deviating, and even then, it wouldn't be easy to get much further. Of course Stamford could be possible, but I don't think the locals on that route would be for it.

 

[168lover]

The chinnor and Princes Risborough Railway eastwards to Risborough(already in process of happening) northwards to thame (would involve closing a major cyle path so probably not happening but still would be good) and westwards to Watlington( long term plan at the moment is as far as Aston Rowant just before M40 but could extend as far as Watlington if time and money allows)

 

[Cowley]

Was just drifting off to sleep when I thought of a couple and decided I'd better post them before I forgot...
In no particular order:

Peak Rail back to Buxton
The Lynton and Barnstaple being completely rebuilt in both directions*
The Wensleydale back to Garsdale

All of these could happen or none of these could happen, who knows..?


(* please let it be this one. Please)

 

[Ash Bridge]

Was just drifting off to sleep when I thought of a couple and decided I'd better post them before I forgot...
In no particular order:

Peak Rail back to Buxton
The Lynton and Barnstaple being completely rebuilt in both directions*
The Wensleydale back to Garsdale

All of these could happen or none of these could happen, who knows..?


(* please let it be this one. Please)

And the icing on the cake....rebuild the railway bridge across the Taw, and reinstate the line from Barnstaple Junc. To Barnstaple Town (yes I realise it couldn't be done now, but it is a lovely thought!)

 

[Flying Phil]

Ref AOwen.... "In the former, I'd also add the GCR's 'Bridging the gap' and Mountsorrel branch".

Well the Mountsorrel Branch has been built and is a very good addition to the GCR. The Gap Project is now happening with much work been/being done behind the scenes. The urgency re Midland Main Line electrification, seems to have eased, with the delays to that work.
The other GCR expansion could be doubling the track from Rothley to Leicester North - especially with the Museum Project happening.

 

[Cowley]

And the icing on the cake....rebuild the railway bridge across the Taw, and reinstate the line from Barnstaple Junc. To Barnstaple Town (yes I realise it couldn't be done now, but it is a lovely thought!)

Nice.
Or (and bear with me on this), running the newly reinstated L&B along the rivers edge and then over the existing old road bridge across the river a la Britannia Bridge in Porthmadog to meet up with Network rail at Barnstaple junction. It could then of course take a right and head on through Instow and Bideford to Torrington but being narrow gauge leaving room for the existing cycle route.
Trains to be modern hybrid units capable of running at up to 50 mph to provide year round passenger service interspersed with Heritage steam operations.

Please everyone don't ask me where the money's going to come from, I haven't worked that bit out yet.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Nice.
Or (and bear with me on this), running the newly reinstated L&B along the rivers edge and then over the existing old road bridge across the river a la Britannia Bridge in Porthmadog to meet up with Network rail at Barnstaple junction. It could then of course take a right and head on through Instow and Bideford to Torrington but being narrow gauge leaving room for the existing cycle route.
Trains to be modern hybrid units capable of running at up to 50 mph to provide year round passenger service interspersed with Heritage steam operations.

Please everyone don't ask me where the money's going to come from, I haven't worked that bit out yet.

Didn't you say you have been working some very long hours recently??...

 

[Cowley]

Didn't you say you have been working some very long hours recently??...

Delirious. I think I may go and lie in a darkened room for a bit and dream about the new North Devon steam/metro that's coming soon.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

The GWSR (Toddington) is currently being extended to Broadway with the rebuilt station mostly in place. There is some scope to go further into Cheltenham from the racecourse station. At the northern end there is already some provision at Honeybourne for a platform should they ever reach that far. The line could even head further north towards Stratford. I'm not saying it will happen, except for the Broadway bit that is.

I think they are hoping one day to reach Stratford upon Avon, that would be another thing for the many tourists to do there.
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I know we've discussed some railways' expansion plans before but I was recently reading about the Churnet Valley Railway (CVR) on Wikipedia and was surprised to find that they could potentially expand in four different directions, effectively creating a small network, if it could be made to work.

I'd never really thought about this before but I was suprised at this as many heritage railways are build on old branchlines with the potential to extend a bit in one or two directions (in the latter case usually a little at each end), but not much more.

Do any other Heritage lines have the potential to expand significantly on their current line, and in particular are there any which, like the CVR may be able to do so along multiple lines?

I have been on the CVR a couple of times when they have been running through trains to Cauldron Lowe, the first time we went all the way to Cauldon Lowe, the second time it was to Ipstones, not sure why it could not get to Cauldon. ? I think they are hoping to get back into Leek and there was talk in the other direction to go a Station for Alton Towers which would be good. Another possibility, although not sure how realistic it would be, is to go into Stoke on Trent, I think some of the track bed and rails are still in place for some of all of these aspirations which would be good if they did get built.
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Ref AOwen.... "In the former, I'd also add the GCR's 'Bridging the gap' and Mountsorrel branch".

Well the Mountsorrel Branch has been built and is a very good addition to the GCR. The Gap Project is now happening with much work been/being done behind the scenes. The urgency re Midland Main Line electrification, seems to have eased, with the delays to that work.
The other GCR expansion could be doubling the track from Rothley to Leicester North - especially with the Museum Project happening.

It will be great when the "Gap" project is constructed on the GCR, I suppose trains will have to reverse to get into the station at Ruddington?

On the Bluebell Line, the Ardingly branch and perhaps onward back into Haywards Heath would be good. (I did hear they may use some old 3rd rail stock foe that, not sure how true that is, if so, it's a shame there are none of the SE Double decker trains left.

The other good connections as mentioned above would be the Wensleydale to Hawes and Garsdale and in the other direction back into Northallerton, which I think they are trying to do now infact.

These things always take time and money.

 

[Mvann]

There are two driving ends of the double decker sets still in existance.

 

[Cowley]

I think they are hoping one day to reach Stratford upon Avon, that would be another thing for the many tourists to do there.
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I have been on the CVR a couple of times when they have been running through trains to Cauldron Lowe, the first time we went all the way to Cauldon Lowe, the second time it was to Ipstones, not sure why it could not get to Cauldon. ? I think they are hoping to get back into Leek and there was talk in the other direction to go a Station for Alton Towers which would be good. Another possibility, although not sure how realistic it would be, is to go into Stoke on Trent, I think some of the track bed and rails are still in place for some of all of these aspirations which would be good if they did get built.
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It will be great when the "Gap" project is constructed on the GCR, I suppose trains will have to reverse to get into the station at Ruddington?

On the Bluebell Line, the Ardingly branch and perhaps onward back into Haywards Heath would be good. (I did hear they may use some old 3rd rail stock foe that, not sure how true that is, if so, it's a shame there are none of the SE Double decker trains left.

The other good connections as mentioned above would be the Wensleydale to Hawes and Garsdale and in the other direction back into Northallerton, which I think they are trying to do now infact.

These things always take time and money.

Re the GCR, I've got a feeling that they want to push north a bit further and perhaps connect with the tram system. Although I think that it would be difficult due to a nature reserve having taken over part of the trackbed amongst other things.
Still, in the scheme of things maybe not as difficult as bridging a main line, rebuilding an intercity railway and replacing the double track between Loughborough and Rothley!

 

[A0]

Nene valley could actually get to the outskirts of market harborough at a push. The last time I looked it was possible to get the market harborough by pass, but very difficult to get much further, mainly due to the gradients to get past the bypass, assuming that they won't allow a level crossing there.
Oundle is the limit the other way without deviating, and even then, it wouldn't be easy to get much further. Of course Stamford could be possible, but I don't think the locals on that route would be for it.

I think given the NVR's financial state in recent times, any extension is a tad unlikely at the moment.

Going to Mkt Harborough would be pretty pointless - apart from some nice countryside, there's nowhere en-route to generate any passengers.

Oundle might just make sense, but not much beyond.
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The chinnor and Princes Risborough Railway eastwards to Risborough(already in process of happening) northwards to thame (would involve closing a major cyle path so probably not happening but still would be good) and westwards to Watlington( long term plan at the moment is as far as Aston Rowant just before M40 but could extend as far as Watlington if time and money allows)

I very much doubt the CPRR are even looking at Thame - it was a separate branch up near Princes Risborough. I suspect Aston Rowant is the limit of what's achievable there - which still makes a nice little line.
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Ref AOwen.... "In the former, I'd also add the GCR's 'Bridging the gap' and Mountsorrel branch".

Well the Mountsorrel Branch has been built and is a very good addition to the GCR. The Gap Project is now happening with much work been/being done behind the scenes. The urgency re Midland Main Line electrification, seems to have eased, with the delays to that work.
The other GCR expansion could be doubling the track from Rothley to Leicester North - especially with the Museum Project happening.

Fair point - I guess the difference I was trying to make, and keep simple, was whether it was something the railway(s) were looking at and either got in flight or likely to achieve or was the OP looking for more crayonista pipe dreams - because we never have a shortage of crayonista pipe dreams around here....

 

[34104]

Was just drifting off to sleep when I thought of a couple and decided I'd better post them before I forgot...
In no particular order:

Peak Rail back to Buxton
The Lynton and Barnstaple being completely rebuilt in both directions*
The Wensleydale back to Garsdale

All of these could happen or none of these could happen, who knows..?


(* please let it be this one. Please)

According to Heritage railway this month the L and B have just completed the purchase of the house at Parracombe which was a major blockage to further progress because of an extension built across the old trackbed.They are going to resell to a member of the trust and slew the track past the extension.Now awaiting planning permission for Killington Lane to Parracombe,looks promising.

 

[Mvann]

I think given the NVR's financial state in recent times, any extension is a tad unlikely at the moment.

Going to Mkt Harborough would be pretty pointless - apart from some nice countryside, there's nowhere en-route to generate any passengers.

Oundle might just make sense, but not much beyond.
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I very much doubt the CPRR are even looking at Thame - it was a separate branch up near Princes Risborough. I suspect Aston Rowant is the limit of what's achievable there - which still makes a nice little line.
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Fair point - I guess the difference I was trying to make, and keep simple, was whether it was something the railway(s) were looking at and either got in flight or likely to achieve or was the OP looking for more crayonista pipe dreams - because we never have a shortage of crayonista pipe dreams around here.... [/QUOTE

Funnily enough, the last two occasions outside interest have put forward extending nene valley for commercial reasons, both have been to extend to kingscliffe.

 

[43096]

Re the GCR, I've got a feeling that they want to push north a bit further and perhaps connect with the tram system. Although I think that it would be difficult due to a nature reserve having taken over part of the trackbed amongst other things.

What does that have to do with the GCR? There are two complete separate railways.

 

[Cowley]

What does that have to do with the GCR? There are two complete separate railways.

GCRN/GCR joint then. Looks like at some point it may end up being one railway or hadn't you seen the plans?

 

[43096]

GCRN/GCR joint then. Looks like at some point it may end up being one railway or hadn't you seen the plans?

Well aware of the plans.

I note the use of "may". The future structure of the two railways post bridge opening is not decided - anything else is pure speculation.

 

[Cowley]

I've often wondered how it would all tie in together, I've been a volunteer on a railway where the staff on one station looked down their noses at the staff at another station further down the line, so it's going to be interesting to see how two different railways that have clearly worked incredibly hard to achieve what they have achieved link up with each other and provide through services.
I was up at Ruddington recently and I'm sure I saw a map outlining a potential extension north to a new station, it was a bit like the one below but I'm not sure if it's still the plan or not?
I think it also showed a new curve to the heritage centre avoiding the need for a reversal.

 

[Flying Phil]

Good point 43096.
The original aim of the Main Line Preservation Group was - as the name suggests to preserve a "Main Line" as all the other significant preservation schemes in the 1960's were branch line or Narrow Gauge.
At that time there were three main lines being closed but the GC was obviously the preferred choice and so fundraising began to save the Leicester to Nottingham section. The cost was increasing rapidly and so the scheme shrank to the Loughborough to Rothley section and the Main Line Steam Trust was set up as a more efficient way to raise money. The double track line was rented from BR.
Then as BR were going to lift the entire track and a lot of money was needed quickly so the PLC GCR (1976)? was set up. BR did remove the second track from Lbro to Rothley and both tracks South of Rothley.
Later, a separate PLC GCR (N) was set up as the Ruddington site became available, but that kept the finances and risks completely separate for the two sections.
I believe there was/ is, still a separate company for the "Gap" section.
So the aim always has been a Main Line between Leicester and Nottingham and the two sections have always been very closely linked in Aim and ethos.
I suspect there will be some "Through Running" but also running from L'bro both North and South as it must be remembered, not everybody wants to spend too long on a train for their day out. If a preserved line is too long the costs may outstrip the income....

 

[43096]

I suspect there will be some "Through Running" but also running from L'bro both North and South as it must be remembered, not everybody wants to spend too long on a train for their day out. If a preserved line is too long the costs may outstrip the income....

That is a very, very good point. I suspect the advantage is access to Loughborough for GCR(N) and the Network Rail connection for GCR. Although an interchange with the Midland Main Line ought to be a priority, to enable better access by public transport.

 

[bolli]

The Dean Forest Railway has stated it wants to expand North to Cinderford, but, not only are there 2 different routes that get nearby (S&W mainline and mineral loop), but if they wanted to, you could extend to Coleford, Lydbrook, Churchway, back towards the mainline to Bullo Pill, or if you were feeling really ambitious, Monmouth via Coleford, or Ross on Wye via Lydbrook.

Southbound, you have the choice of Lydney Docks (albeit with a flat crossing on NR - I'd love to see that approved ), or to the site of the Severn Bridge (or beyond if you had a spare few million dollars!)

The line to Coleford in particular has some serious gradients!
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To Add, here's a map!

 

[Trainfan344]

Not sure, but when I last visited, the Gwilli Railway looked to have potential to expand lots. It's new extension will double the length at least.

 

[chris89]

Telford Steam Railway.

The potential extension to Ironbridge after the Powerstation closed last year. If it does happen, it would be fantastic for the local area and open possibilities of some form of Heritage bus service between Ironbridge and Bridgnorth.

For the SVR lots of work starting at Bridgnorth to improve the station and volunteer accommodations.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Was just drifting off to sleep when I thought of a couple and decided I'd better post them before I forgot...
In no particular order:

The Wensleydale back to Garsdale

Unfortunately the current state of Mossdale Head Tunnel will probably prevent the line from being reopened between Hawes and Garsdale.
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For the SVR lots of work starting at Bridgnorth to improve the station and volunteer accommodations.

Yes I was just about to say that, including the reinstatement of the 3rd platform. Just out of interest do you know what will happen to the volunteers accommodation carriages that are currently parked there? Whilst I understand that they are not in the best state of repair it would be a shame to see them cut up.

Just out of interest what are the chances of ever running in the Stourport direction again?