Re-opening of rail routes

[Old Hill Bank]

The Campaign for Better Transport have prduced this lobby document, your thoughts all.

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...-rail-improvements-in-autumn-statement/156965

18.11.16
Chancellor urged to focus on small rail improvements in Autumn Statement

Campaign for Better Transport (CBT) has urged the chancellor to use the Autumn Statement to invest in small and local rail projects.
The pressure group’s submission to the statement, which will be made on 23 November, was focused on the theme of ‘Fix It First’, where Philip Hammond was encouraged to deliver small-scale projects such as fixing potholes and building cycle paths instead of investing in big road projects.
Across rail, CBT said the government should deliver more “short-term measures” to improve services, similar to its recent £20m improvement fund for Southern Rail.
It accused the DfT of carrying out major projects such as East Coast Main Line electrification “on the cheap”, when smaller improvements, such as straightening out curves or relaying points, would be more effective in improving reliability.
Furthermore, CBT argued the government should increase rail capacity by building new stations, reopening closed lines and stations, and adapting lines retained for freight for passenger trains.
It recommended delivering this by investing further rounds of the New Stations Fund in reopening old lines.
The organisation identified 12 priority lines for reopening. These included the East-West Rail link, which transport secretary Chris Grayling recently insisted the government is still committed too.
The others are:

• Ashington - Blyth – Newcastle
• Portishead - Bristol
• The Worcester to Derby Main Line Railway between Stourbridge and Burton
• Leamside line
• Lewes - Uckfield
• Skipton - Colne
• Leicester - Burton-on-Trent
• Fleetwood - Preston
• Wisbech - March
• Totton - Hythe
• Bere Alston - Tavistock - Okehampton

 

[swt_passenger]

The organisation identified 12 priority lines for reopening. These included:
Totton - Hythe

Wouldn't they be better off proposing lines that the local authority is actually interested in reopening?

 

[Llanigraham]

And where is the money to come from?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

This is not the first time I have made this point but it bears repeating. The national rail network as a whole loses money and requires government subsidy to continue. An addition to that network is therefore also likely to lose money, at least in broad terms, when first opened. In order to persuade the holders of public purse-strings that a re-opening is worthwhile that assumption of loss must be overcome. This is why it is necessary to build up a business case. Forum member Altnabreac has often put forward their own set of "rules" to judge the potential viability of a re-opening proposal: hopefully they may make a posting in this thread.

From what I can remember of those "rules" only 3 of those lines have any chance of being considered any time soon, namely Ashington, Portishead and Hythe though Tavistock-Okehampton may well prove strategically worthwhile at some point. The rest look beyond any reasonable expectation either due to insufficient real demand or high cost of construction.

 

[petersi]

Blyth to Newcastle tracks are in place.
May not be best has heavy rail but as part of Newcastle metro.
Or is the demand still not there ?

 

[PHILIPE]

I notice that Bristol to Portishead is listed. This should be open in 2020, fingers crossed, as it has slipped already.

 

[HowardGWR]

You usually find with lobby charities like CBT that there will be a local keen member who has to be placated by including his scheme in the wish list. There must be one in Hythe. Clearly they don't have a local member in Ripon!

 

[johnnychips]

Where does the 'Worcester to Derby main line railway between Stourbridge and Burton' run (apart from via Stourbridge and Burton, obviously). Is it freight only, disused rails in place, or lifted, or lifted and built over?

 

[Kettledrum]

This is not the first time I have made this point but it bears repeating. The national rail network as a whole loses money and requires government subsidy to continue. An addition to that network is therefore also likely to lose money, at least in broad terms, when first opened. In order to persuade the holders of public purse-strings that a re-opening is worthwhile that assumption of loss must be overcome. This is why it is necessary to build up a business case.

Don't get me started on business plans!

You could say the same about the road network. As a whole it loses money. In itself, it brings in no income and the roads cost money to repair and also to police.

I have a perception that the road lobby is more effective at making cases for investment than the rail industry. I know both road and rail investment brings wider economic and social mobility benefits, but I don't know these are being captured fully.

I also know that new rail routes and new roads often get used far more than the business case expected (with the exception of the M6 toll).

so whilst I agree with you that a business case is important, I am sceptical that it may be just a flawed rationing process.

Even when we have great business cases, (like Midland Main Line Electrification), it still gets pushed to the back of the queue by political imperatives.

 

[The Planner]

Effectively lifted all the way after Round Oak, runs Stourbridge, Dudley, Walsall, Brownhills, Lichfield, Wichnor. Stourbridge to Round Oak is still open.

 

[Kettledrum]

Where does the 'Worcester to Derby main line railway between Stourbridge and Burton' run (apart from via Stourbridge and Burton, obviously). Is it freight only, disused rails in place, or lifted and/or built over?

It's a mixture - but don't think it's built over.

Some of this is the South Staffordshire railway.

The Lichfield to Burton part is still used to access three rivers depot and for XC diversions but it is single line only.

 

[johnnychips]

Effectively lifted all the way after Round Oak, runs Stourbridge, Dudley, Walsall, Brownhills, Lichfield, Wichnor. Stourbridge to Round Oak is still open.

Thanks. This isn't one I've seen threads on on here, unlike Carmarthen to Aberystwyth, though no doubt there must be one somewhere. Is it built on?

 

[edwin_m]

Where does the 'Worcester to Derby main line railway between Stourbridge and Burton' run (apart from via Stourbridge and Burton, obviously). Is it freight only, disused rails in place, or lifted, or lifted and built over?

Stourbridge to Round Oak - just about still open (I think) as a freight line.

Round Oak via Dudley and Wednesbury to Pleck Jn (Walsall) - went out of use a couple of decades ago, most of the track has disappeared and there are a couple of very dodgy structures. Part is proposed to become a Midland Metro route although I believe the plans allow for reinstatement of a single heavy rail track if ever needed.

Pleck to Ryecroft Jn - part of Chase Line to Rugeley

Ryecroft to Lichfield City - lifted

Lichfield City to Trent Valley - part of Cross City Line

Trent Valley to Wichnor Jn - freight and diversions

Wichnor to Burton - open

 

[Kettledrum]

source:

http://southstaffsrail.webs.com/

 

[Llanigraham]

I've just realised the forum favourite isn't there!!
Aberystwyth to Carmarthen!!

 

[PHILIPE]

I've just realised the forum favourite isn't there!!
Aberystwyth to Carmarthen!!

I think this may be that it has nothing to do with the Westminster Government and it's Chancellor. I thought of it but then realised it would be the responsibility of the Welsh Government.

 

[PR1Berske]

This topic often comes up. I always keep up in my mind the Forum attitude that it's far easier to draw lines on a map then to ever build the lines. A wish list, tis all.

 

[DPWH]

Pressure groups always go for big reopenings. I guess it's popular with their members who are looking for simple solutions to complex questions.

Read NR's RUS you see that NR has a pretty clear strategic plan for the next 20 years, there being good business cases for upgrading the existing network. But little improvements (new signalling, grade separated junctions, platform extensions, etc) aren't as glamorous as reopening, I guess.

Turns out NR have a better idea than the pressure groups; who would have suspected that?

 

[The Planner]

Ryecroft to Lichfield City - lifted

Still track from Brownhills to Lichfield but OOU. Will probably get stripped out when Aston re-control ever happens.

 

[BigCj34]

I would imagine the reopening of the Borders line has probably spurred a lot of hope, especially when it's the longest stretch of new railway built for a century, and has been successful in terms of patronage. If a line which initially had a modest business case has been successful there are plenty more routes that would be as well.

 

[Chrisgr31]

BBCSussex tweetted this morning that they had learnt that international investors were ready to fund a second Brighton mainilne.

No further details seen though!

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I would imagine the reopening of the Borders line has probably spurred a lot of hope, especially when it's the longest stretch of new railway built for a century, and has been successful in terms of patronage. If a line which initially had a modest business case has been successful there are plenty more routes that would be as well.

It would be great if that line could be extended back to Carlisle from Tweedbank.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

BBCSussex tweetted this morning that they had learnt that international investors were ready to fund a second Brighton mainilne.

No further details seen though!

Yes, they mentioned it on their lunchtime new headlines, again a would be great idea if it happens, I presume the existing Uckfield line would have to be improved somewhat to accommodate this too. (Not sure what it's impact would be on the little Lavender line.)

 

[Chrisgr31]

Yes, they mentioned it on their lunchtime new headlines, again a would be great idea if it happens, I presume the existing Uckfield line would have to be improved somewhat to accommodate this too. (Not sure what it's impact would be on the little Lavender line.)

I guess it would have a significant the impact on the Lavender line and if it was twin track the Lavender line would go. It might be possible to retain it with a single track.

However a single track Uckfield - Lewes line would rather defeat the point of BML2.

That in turn means twin track would have to be reinstated on most if not all the Uckfield Line and signalling changed to allow more trains per hour.

I'll be surprised if it happens, and as a passenger probably quite grumpy as it will almost certainly lead to significant fare increases!

 

[BigCj34]

It would be great if that line could be extended back to Carlisle from Tweedbank.

Extending to Hawick is a no brainer, but then what happens after? There's only Newcastleton and Longtoen to serve between Hawick and Carlisle, a very small catchment population for a long stretch, and where do you factor in Langholm?

Do you:-

Reopen all the way to Carlisle and reopen the Langholm branch?

Bypass Newcastleton and go to Langholm? (Very expensive tunnelling etc.)

Cater for Newcastleton and Langholm with a new route between the two? (Again very cost prohibitive)

Just extend to Hawick, and have another branch including Langholm and Longtown, with no link between Hawick and Longtown?

It's an interesting debate. Personally the latter is probably the most efficient option in terms of population served per track kilometre.

 

[yorksrob]

Pressure groups always go for big reopenings. I guess it's popular with their members who are looking for simple solutions to complex questions.

Read NR's RUS you see that NR has a pretty clear strategic plan for the next 20 years, there being good business cases for upgrading the existing network. But little improvements (new signalling, grade separated junctions, platform extensions, etc) aren't as glamorous as reopening, I guess.

Turns out NR have a better idea than the pressure groups; who would have suspected that?

Really? And who made you the arbiter to decide that NR is automatically correct ? The fact that NR doesn't really have a mandate to consider serving new routes rather than developing the existing network, might have something to do with this focus.

As it happens, your argument is very similar to the arguments those of us who support reopening's regularly make, I.e that Government would be better spending smaller sums of money on reopening's than splurging billions on high speed lines.

 

[LateThanNever]

And where is the money to come from?

The same place that Quantitative Easing for the banks comes from!
The government creates it out of thin air.

 

[wfrank]

How about Lugershall,where my army brother was once based, to Andover? Lots of ex army land which could be made into a mini town. Maybe the rail company wanting rights into Waterloo could run from Lugershall as well, or just terminate at the bay platform at Andover; or even Basingstoke, reopening the through freight platform on the north side. That would work if the up slow was reversible to beyond Worting. In view of Network Rail's endless failures most of this is fanciful,but in a real world with engineers unleashed to do a fine job much would be possible.

 

[TBY-Paul]

The Leamside line is badly needed, more so now that it looks like HS2/3 as a new line is not going to happen in the North East.
If Leamside was re-opened the route from Stillington to Leamside could be designed in a way that avoids the need for Local services to use any section of the ECML.
I can see the new proposed "Northern Connect" service between Middlesbrough & Newcastle (via Stillington) being ditched once the feasibility study comes out next year, with the problems of access to the ECML at Ferryhill junction being cited as the reason why it's ditched.

My understanding is that the ECML, from Northallerton to Newcastle is going to "upgraded" as part of HS2/3, which is only going to reduce capacity for more local services. The North East already suffers from poor Local services due to lack of capacity along the ECML.

 

[Melancholia]

I've just realised the forum favourite isn't there!!
Aberystwyth to Carmarthen!!

Or Bourne End to High Wycombe.

 

[apk55]

What about the Middlewich line. Track in use for freight so you looking at nothing more than upgrading the track, some minor trackwork mods at Northwich and building some platforms - peanuts in comparison to many of the other schemes.