Council tax joint liability

[anti-pacer]

My ex and I split last year and I moved out. It was all very amicable until August this year when we fell out.

We had joint debts which I have paid £1300 to, including all the council tax which we were behind on. In good faith I paid her the last of the money in June. She was paying instalments to the council which I checked and all was good. I had no reason to doubt her and question it.

Fast forward to yesterday and I receive a letter from the council saying due to change in her circumstances on 3rd November this year, she is no longer liable for council tax prior to date. Now she has a full time, reasonably paid job, but she did have a fair bit of debt. I'm presuming you can't just rack up to the council building and say "I'm not paying it, chase him" because that surely isn't a "change of circumstance". All I can think of is she has declared herself bankrupt, got an IVA, or some other debt relief. Are there any other reasons a working person could have their liability for joint council tax removed?

Just to be clear, I have called the council and sorted out a payment plan as legally I've not got a leg to stand on. In hindsight I should have paid the council direct. She's not going to tell me what she's done, but I'm just puzzled as to what else she could have done to get out of it, other than what I've thought.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm confused - do the Council still think you are living there?

 

[anti-pacer]

I'm confused - do the Council still think you are living there?

No these are arrears up until I left. She had a payment plan in place with the council. I gave her the money for my share, paying my share off completely. Stupidly I didn't pay my share directly to the council, but trusted her. I even checked with the council at the time that she was paying it, which she was then.

 

[AlterEgo]

Council Tax is a joint and several liability. Thus, if the annual rate is £1000, and you both were occupying the property, you can in fact both be pursued for the full amount of £1000, *each*.

There is a good explanation here:

http://www.eden.gov.uk/council-tax-and-housing-benefit/council-tax/who-is-liable-for-council-tax/

There can be more than one liable person in a property. People who are joint owners or joint tenants are jointly and severally liable for paying Council Tax for the dwelling. That is to say, both parties are individually responsible for the whole bill. This is an important point to remember because the law does not distinguish between the liable people.

 

[anti-pacer]

Council Tax is a joint and several liability. Thus, if the annual rate is £1000, and you both were occupying the property, you can in fact both be pursued for the full amount of £1000, *each*.

There is a good explanation here:

http://www.eden.gov.uk/council-tax-and-housing-benefit/council-tax/who-is-liable-for-council-tax/

There can be more than one liable person in a property. People who are joint owners or joint tenants are jointly and severally liable for paying Council Tax for the dwelling. That is to say, both parties are individually responsible for the whole bill. This is an important point to remember because the law does not distinguish between the liable people.

My question is though, if she's working, she's the hierarchical liability, how can she get her liability quashed?

 

[DarloRich]

I'm confused - do the Council still think you are living there?

no - it is arrears

The big issue is joint and several liability - both parties are individually responsible for the whole bill. I have been in that position myself so feel your pain and worry.

I did a deal with the council as i was working and she wasn't. I wonder if she has an IVA in place or some other bankruptcy style event has occurred.

 

[anti-pacer]

no - it is arrears

The big issue is joint and several liability - both parties are individually responsible for the whole bill. I have been in that position myself so feel your pain and worry.

I did a deal with the council as i was working and she wasn't. I wonder if she has an IVA in place or some other bankruptcy style event has occurred.

It's more anger than worry. I'm of the same thinking as you as to the IVA etc, as I cannot think what else would get you out of paying.

I have paid her over £1300, some of which she said was to clear my part of the council tax. The payments were all bank transfers but I don't suppose I have a leg to stand on in regards to taking any civil or criminal action against her?

What angers me even more is she has just bought a horse!

 

[BanburyBlue]

This seems weird. I'll admit up front that I know nothing but...

1, Surely there must be an appeals process.

2, Is there a way of finding out what changed her circumstances that the council now hold you wholly liable? Surely this isn't an unreasonable question because the end result has a massive impact on you? (accepting you are dealing with a council).

 

[AlterEgo]

It's more anger than worry. I'm of the same thinking as you as to the IVA etc, as I cannot think what else would get you out of paying.

I have paid her over £1300, some of which she said was to clear my part of the council tax. The payments were all bank transfers but I don't suppose I have a leg to stand on in regards to taking any civil or criminal action against her?

What angers me even more is she has just bought a horse!

You don't have a leg to stand on unfortunately. You mention having checked up with the council before, to ensure the arrears were going down - or have I read that wrongly?

 

[anti-pacer]

This seems weird. I'll admit up front that I know nothing but...

1, Surely there must be an appeals process.

2, Is there a way of finding out what changed her circumstances that the council now hold you wholly liable? Surely this isn't an unreasonable question because the end result has a massive impact on you? (accepting you are dealing with a council).

The council won't tell me as it's data protection. Data that relates to a joint claim! Laughable ain't it?
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You don't have a leg to stand on unfortunately. You mention having checked up with the council before, to ensure the arrears were going down - or have I read that wrongly?

I checked in about May if she was paying the arrears and she was. As I'd paid my arrears to her directly I didn't check how much she had outstanding.

I feel such a fool!

 

[AlterEgo]

Is there a way of finding out what changed her circumstances that the council now hold you wholly liable?

You've missed some of the point here - in a joint tenancy/occupancy *both* parties are liable for the *full* amount.

My CT is around £1500 a year. If Mrs Paul4040 and I were to split up and we had a year's arrears, they could pursue me for the full £1500 and my Mrs for the full £1500 also.

The situation of the other party is effectively academic.

 

[northwichcat]

My CT is around £1500 a year. If Mrs Paul4040 and I were to split up and we had a year's arrears, they could pursue me for the full £1500 and my Mrs for the full £1500 also.

If you both then paid would they have to refund you £750?

I realise in anti-pacer's case they are claiming his ex is not required to pay for some reason.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You've missed some of the point here - in a joint tenancy/occupancy *both* parties are liable for the *full* amount.

My CT is around £1500 a year. If Mrs Paul4040 and I were to split up and we had a year's arrears, they could pursue me for the full £1500 and my Mrs for the full £1500 also.

But *not* to the tune of £3000. Once one party has paid up, that's the matter closed.

 

[northwichcat]

All I can think of is she has declared herself bankrupt, got an IVA, or some other debt relief. Are there any other reasons a working person could have their liability for joint council tax removed?

You could search for bankruptcy here: https://www.gov.uk/search-bankruptcy-insolvency-register

If she's no longer in paid employment and on benefits are they able to chase her for a debt while she is out-of-work? I'm just thinking there may be some clause there to prevent the government having to potentially give out hardship loans for benefit claimants to clear debts to councils or something.

 

[AlterEgo]

But *not* to the tune of £3000. Once one party has paid up, that's the matter closed.

Indeed. They can't go "double bubble".

 

[ainsworth74]

My question is though, if she's working, she's the hierarchical liability, how can she get her liability quashed?

In terms of hierarchy as far as I am aware employment status doesn't enter into and its solely based on residence status at the time that the liability was incurred.

From the information given I would gamble that she's gone bankrupt or got an IVA and therefore the Council are no longer able to pursue her for any or some of the arrears and that is why they are now knocking on your door as you remain liable for outstanding amount of the arrears.

In terms of recovering the money that you sent her for the purpose of paying down the Council Tax arrears you could certainly seek to recover it through the County Court via small claims action but you do have to consider 1) how much proof do you have that that is what the money was for and 2) is she in a position to pay you back the money considering that she may well have gone bankrupt or be in an IVA.
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If she's no longer in paid employment and on benefits are they able to chase her for a debt while she is out-of-work? I'm just thinking there may be some clause there to prevent the government having to potentially give out hardship loans for benefit claimants to clear debts to councils or something.

Nope. There is no such protection. It is very common to see people who are paying back Council Tax arrears (and other debts) via deductions direct from their benefits.

 

[anti-pacer]

You could search for bankruptcy here: https://www.gov.uk/search-bankruptcy-insolvency-register

If she's no longer in paid employment and on benefits are they able to chase her for a debt while she is out-of-work? I'm just thinking there may be some clause there to prevent the government having to potentially give out hardship loans for benefit claimants to clear debts to councils or something.

She is working. This is partly what annoys me.

 

[greatkingrat]

I suspect she has had some sort of bankruptcy or IVA which means the council can't recover the arrears from her, so they are coming after you instead.

Try searching for her name on
https://www.gov.uk/search-bankruptcy-insolvency-register

 

[anti-pacer]

I suspect she has had some sort of bankruptcy or IVA which means the council can't recover the arrears from her, so they are coming after you instead.

Try searching for her name on
https://www.gov.uk/search-bankruptcy-insolvency-register

Thanks for this. I've found her. She has an IVA.

 

[richw]

Thanks for this. I've found her. She has an IVA.

You'll be 100% liable for any joint debts in that case. Is it just the council tax? If any others I suggest you seek legal and or financial advise! Anything you've paid her is unlikely to have gone to the balance unless she's only just declared.

 

[anti-pacer]

You'll be 100% liable for any joint debts in that case. Is it just the council tax? If any others I suggest you seek legal and or financial advise! Anything you've paid her is unlikely to have gone to the balance unless she's only just declared.

There's just that one, thankfully.

 

[Butts]

If you enter an IVA or Individual Voluntary Arrangement it normally means that you come to a formal agreement to pay a certain proportion of what you owe in total to all creditors over a certain period normally 5 Years.

Payments are normally made monthly. The Creditors will normally vote on whether to accept the proposal based on weighting related to how much is outstanding to each. If you owe 100k and Creditors representing 51K of the debt say yes it goes through.

After five years of payments whatever is outstanding is normally written off.

In order to qualify an extensive Income and Expenditure investigation is carried out to see how much you can afford. There are quite generous allowances for most things. If you own a property they will take a slice of it's equity as well.

Many IVA's fail and end in Bankruptcy.

It may be that your ex is only repaying a proportion of the outstanding arrears as part of an IVA hence the reason you are being chased for the rest.