Longer journey, same line, same ticket price.

[cf111]

I hold an off-peak return from Inverness (INV) to Thurso (THS), I now need to start the return leg from Wick (WCK) an INV-WCK off-peak return is the same price as the ticket I hold.

Is there any way round this at a ticket office short of buying a WCK-INV single or asking the guard nicely when they check my ticket? If there were a difference in price I would just excess it but I don't know if you can do that when there isn't one.

 

[island]

You can, in principle, get a zero fare over distance excess, but many ticket offices won't issue them. Ask the guard nicely before you board.

 

[Hadders]

Just ask the guard. I'd be shocked if they did anything other than tell you not to worry.

I wouldn't give this sort of advice if the likes of GTR were involved but a different attitude prevails in the outposts of the network.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

You can, in principle, get a zero fare over distance excess, but many ticket offices won't issue them. Ask the guard nicely before you board.

If the op did it before the outward journey, the excess fare is an option, otherwise the official option would be a single fare from Wick to Georgemas Junction or Thurso.

Asking the Guard may indeed yield positive results.

 

[Starmill]

Surely a Thurso to Inverness ticket is already valid via Wick?

 

[sheff1]

Surely a Thurso to Inverness ticket is already valid via Wick?

Why ? Wick is 14 miles in the opposite direction from Georgemas Jn.

A ticket from Wick to Inverness is indisputably valid via Thurso as all trains from Wick go via Thurso.

 

[cf111]

To report back: ticket office said they couldn't do anything bar amend the ticket and charge the £10 admin fee, Guard wasn't having it and said I had to buy a single from Wick to Thurso, I suppose rules is rules.

Thanks to all for the replies!

 

[robbeech]

Well rules are indeed rules but......... surely an over distance excess is a rule ?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Well to the best of my knowledge the rule is that an over-distance excess must be available only in cases when there were no facilities to buy the required ticket at the start of the journey. A TOC doesn't have to sell it to a passenger just because his/her plans have changed. It looks to me like the guard was enforcing the rules correctly, but I think £2.40 could have been saved over the £6.50 Wick to Thurso fare by buying a ticket only from Wick to Georgemas Junction (£4.10), getting off there and waiting for the train to call again on its way back from Thurso, and then starting short on the Thurso to Inverness ticket.

 

[cf111]

Well to the best of my knowledge the rule is that an over-distance excess must be available only in cases when there were no facilities to buy the required ticket at the start of the journey. A TOC doesn't have to sell it to a passenger just because his/her plans have changed. It looks to me like the guard was enforcing the rules correctly, but I think £2.40 could have been saved over the £6.50 Wick to Thurso fare by buying a ticket only from Wick to Georgemas Junction (£4.10), getting off there and waiting for the train to call again on its way back from Thurso, and then starting short on the Thurso to Inverness ticket.

I didn't fancy standing at Georgemas in the sleet, maybe if we were in July

 

[krus_aragon]

I found myself in a similar situation a few years ago travelling between Cardiff and Llandudno Junction, then returning from Llandudno town. On the northbound leg I was transporting a large tricycle in the luggage van on the Gerallt Gymro express, so couldn't take a connecting local train on to Llandudno. Buying a ticket to Llandudno (same price) and stopping short wasn't an option, because ATW's long distance fares are all off-peak returns with no break of journey outbound (8A). I was asked to buy a single LLD-LLJ on the return journey instead.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Buying a ticket to Llandudno (same price) and stopping short wasn't an option, because ATW's long distance fares are all off-peak returns with no break of journey outbound (8A). I was asked to buy a single LLD-LLJ on the return journey instead.

Under the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, that would have been the correct course of action, it's a little different under the National Rail Conditions of Travel.

 

[SeanG]

Well to the best of my knowledge the rule is that an over-distance excess must be available only in cases when there were no facilities to buy the required ticket at the start of the journey. A TOC doesn't have to sell it to a passenger just because his/her plans have changed. It looks to me like the guard was enforcing the rules correctly, but I think £2.40 could have been saved over the £6.50 Wick to Thurso fare by buying a ticket only from Wick to Georgemas Junction (£4.10), getting off there and waiting for the train to call again on its way back from Thurso, and then starting short on the Thurso to Inverness ticket.

Wouldn't have to wait at Georgemas Jct surely, as the train would call at GJ (the first time) as a direct service to Inverness, and so the ticket would be valid via Thurso

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Wouldn't have to wait at Georgemas Jct surely, as the train would call at GJ (the first time) as a direct service to Inverness, and so the ticket would be valid via Thurso

It's not an argument I would want to have, even if I thought it was legit.

 

[yorkie]

Wouldn't have to wait at Georgemas Jct surely, as the train would call at GJ (the first time) as a direct service to Inverness, and so the ticket would be valid via Thurso

In the other direction it's clear-cut; if your ticket calls at the destination printed on the ticket, the ticket expires at that point.

However I don't see anything in the rules to prevent boarding a direct train from origin to destination that happens to double-back, so if the ticket was Georgemas Jn to Inverness, the ticket would indeed be valid for the double-back via Thurso.

But to then apply that argument for a ticket from Thurso, with the argument that you are starting short at Georgemas Jn, only to then double-back to Thurso, is perhaps stretching things in terms of any entitlement to travel.

That said, an argument that you are simply wanting to board* the same train a bit earlier because of poor weather conditions and wanting to stay warm, should see common sense prevailing.

(* OK, in this case, stay on board, as it would be combined with an Inverness to Georgemas Jn ticket)

 

[sheff1]

Wouldn't have to wait at Georgemas Jct surely, as the train would call at GJ (the first time) as a direct service to Inverness, and so the ticket would be valid via Thurso

Agreed. The Thurso ticket is valid to start 'short' at Georgemas and the passenger joining at Georgemas is getting on a through train to Inverness.

Of course, the simplest option to avoid any interesting discussion is to buy an Inverness to Wick ticket at the outset.

 

[krus_aragon]

Under the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, that would have been the correct course of action, it's a little different under the National Rail Conditions of Travel.

Aha, if only I'd been able to delay delivery of the tricycle by five years or so...

On a serious note, I fully accept that an additional ticket for LLD-LLJ was the correct course of action. I was just a little disappointed that it was necessary.

 

[jax4154]

To report back: ticket office said they couldn't do anything bar amend the ticket and charge the £10 admin fee, Guard wasn't having it and said I had to buy a single from Wick to Thurso, I suppose rules is rules.

Thanks to all for the replies!

National rail website states

You can upgrade your ticket upon payment of an excess fare, if you wish to:
continue your journey to a station further than where you have purchased your ticket or upgrade to First Class, It may be possible to change your ticket in other situations without having to apply for a refund and buying a new ticket.

I can't see no difference between going further and starting a journey further, perhaps the ticket office clerk didn't want the hassle of the zero fare paperwork. I am certain if you put that £6.50 in for a refund you will be sent vouchers for a future journey.

 

[najaB]

I can't see no difference between going further and starting a journey further...

Previous discussions on the forum have made it clear that this is not a universally-held view.

 

[furlong]

Interesting - I hadn't noticed that before. So some types of tickets are now subject to contractual conditions that place obligations on the companies to sell excess fares in circumstances where the TSA imposes no such requirement.