Proposed CrossCountry December 2017 timetable change consultation

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[Ianno87]

Torbay will probably moan at losing most weekday services, but only one (mid-morning northbound) appears to load at all significantly according to the document



If the unit were detached at Exeter or Newton Abbot, it could work to Paignton and allow a late morning Exeter service to start back from Torbay. There would need to be a unit balance down to PLY, which could serve Torbay as well (assuming the 1625 PLY needs 2x220 from the start). Obviously there are staffing costs.

Does seem a bit odd to leave a unit around at Plymouth for most of the day, but I guess XC couldn't figure out anything productive to do with the unit during the time. Must be a necessary evil to move the unit from a busy morning peak working to a busy evening peak one. Or the unit perhaps goes to Laira for fuelling, or something, or it's a tactical 'hot spare' at PlymouthThere would at least be plenty of time to stick the unit to Penzance and back in the time available, subject to crew being available, giving an extra through working to/from Cornwall in each direction.

Anyway, having read the document, seems like a reasonably well thought through set of changes. As a Cambridge resident, I welcome the extra trip each way to/from Birmingham, at times I often find convenient

 

[Rich McLean]

Often at that time of day a hot spare is useful as Plymouth to fill in for delayed services

 

[MCR247]

The 1730 Birmingham - Cardiff always has quite a few standing as a 3 car, so I'm intrigued about what it'd be like as a 2 car even losing the Bromsgrove call

 

[dk1]

Torbay will probably moan at losing most weekday services, but only one (mid-morning northbound) appears to load at all significantly according to the document .

I presume that by 88 passengers on the mid-morning Paignton-Manchester they mean those that board before & are still on after Exeter. When ever I use it there are a hell of a lot more than 88 on by the time it's left Torquay let alone Dawlish. I must admit though, many do alight at St.Davids.

 

[Kettledrum]

The 1730 Birmingham - Cardiff always has quite a few standing as a 3 car, so I'm intrigued about what it'd be like as a 2 car even losing the Bromsgrove call

If it was a London Midland Service, where the electric units are available, it would no doubt be at least a 4 car unit. This is based on my observations when waiting at New Street. XC services through Birmingham are very much the poor relation. It's really tough for the passengers.
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Often at that time of day a hot spare is useful as Plymouth to fill in for delayed services

Having hot spares is something XC do particularly well - and they need to because there are so many pinch points on their network where delays can occur.

At Birmingham New Street, I am impressed by their ability to find substitute units to restart services with a hot spare when the original service has been delayed. I hope the new timetable won't change this

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[XCTurbostar]

I don't doubt that Hinckley and Narborough warrant a half hourly service... Afterall they had it in the early/mid 2000's... I do doubt that there is sufficient capacity on some of the Stansteds to accommodate it though... Currently there's enough spare time in the schedule eastbound for extra stops but westbound the schedules are very tight... And if XC will be stopping at Cambridge North the westbound timings become even tighter...

As for extra capacity, there's a fair bit in the am/pm peaks but very little off peak, indeed there's actually a reduction at the start of the evening off peak period... Whether they can reliably deliver 26 out of 29 170's every day remains to be seen, they seem to struggle a fair bit to provide 25 currently...

At the moment. Both Hinckley and Narborough are quite poorly connected. However, I would have liked to see at a bear minimum;

1N40 0515 Cambridge - Birmingham New Street
- Currently goes express from Leicester to Nuneaton
- Proposal to stop at both Hinckley and Narborough to relieve peak congestion

1L48 1622 Birmingham New Street - Stansted Airport
- Currently goes express from Nuneaton to Leicester
- Proposal to stop at both Narborough and Hinckley to relieve congestion on the 1609 and 1652.

Experience shows the CrossCountry tend to be pretty poor at providing a consistent 2 or 3 coach service.

Thanks,
Ross

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[Kettledrum]

Pretty sure that XC are 2 x 3 car 170's short at the moment after a couple of units were damaged after hitting cattle... Lydney and Melton Mowbray I think...

When this happens, is it possible to taken the middle coach out of the damaged 3 car unit and insert it into one of the 2 car units?

(Assuming the middle coach isn't itself damaged)

 

[Kite159]

When this happens, is it possible to taken the middle coach out of the damaged 3 car unit and insert it into one of the 2 car units?

(Assuming the middle coach isn't itself damaged)

I think they have done that for the unit which hit Daisy at Lydney, the middle coach is temporary in a 2-car 170/1

 

[Martin_1981]

As an Exeter resident, I am over the moon about the extension of the Manchester to Bristol services to Exeter, this is something which has been in the cards for a while. Shame about the loss of most Torbay services though. It will be interesting to see how summer Saturday services are affected in 2018.

 

[ainsworth74]

It will be interesting to see how summer Saturday services are affected in 2018.

Agreed. I wonder if this might mark the start of the final decline of summer Saturday specials?

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Agreed. I wonder if this might mark the start of the final decline of summer Saturday specials?

Same thought occurred to me. Under BR XC was built up to try and serve the VFR (Visiting Friends and Relatives) market leading to the myriad of through journey possibilities. Since privitisation there is not the same focus on VFR and timings of the Cornish through trains are not particularly attractive. Given the forthcoming frequency enhancements on Plymouth-Penzance and York-Newcastle it's not difficult to see a future XC network with more of the extremities trimmed. The summer weekend Holidaymaker market is another that continues to contract so it may be that in future we see no more from XC apart from one Paignton and one Newquay on summer Saturdays.

 

[30907]

The 1625 is currently a 4 car 220... I have no idea what it loads like or whether it justifies an extra 4 cars...

The 220 that sits at Plymouth from 1048 to 1625 works down to Plymouth on its own on the 0600 ex Derby...

Sorry, hadn't read the detail of the document - obviously you can't detach the non-existent second unit.

Keep the current 1150 Plymouth-Manchester... This then allows the 0807 ex Manchester to be extended through to Paignton as it currently does, and then back on the 1406 to Manchester, and then that allows the 1007 ex Manchester to be extended through to Plymouth arriving 1520ish, before doing the 1625 back to Leeds with the 1548 arrival...

Ignore my suggestion. Much better idea - if, as you say, the crew and paths are there.

 

[sprinterguy]

When this happens, is it possible to taken the middle coach out of the damaged 3 car unit and insert it into one of the 2 car units?

(Assuming the middle coach isn't itself damaged)

Yes, the centre car out of 170110 is currently located in the middle of former 2-car unit 170112.

 

[ainsworth74]

A poster over on WNXX has also suggested that XC are also planning on removing a lot of diversionary route knowledge...

Yes there are some comments within the document which do give the impression that XC might be looking to reduce their diversionary route knowledge.

 

[The Planner]

Which will be interesting as it could well cause us issues in blocking lines for maintenance and subsequently make it more expensive in schedule 4 payments.

 

[Class 170101]

Unless I'm being dumb (highly likely) I can't work out whether the new station at Cambridge North will be served by XC...

No XC not serving this station.
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I think this answers my question. The key being withdrawing them from Craigentinny and apparently transferring their Maintenance to Heaton.

Heard that XC have recently signed a new contract at Craigentinny for their HSTs to be maintained.

 

[ScotTrains]

Disappointed about the 1225 PLY - GLC getting cut back to EDB. The 2108 EDB to GLC is always busy at the weekend as this is the last XC train (cheaper than Scotrail) from the capital to Motherwell and Glasgow. If they cut this service the latest XC train to Glasgow will now leave around 7pm. Would there be any possibility of introducing a later NCL to GLC service? This would help reduce the impact of both the 1325 PLY to EDB HST being cut back to NCL and the 1225 PLY to GLC being cut back to EDB. It would obviously require a spare voyager to be in Newcastle.

 

[xtradj]

Always wondered why the 20.27 Manchester to New St didn't just carry on to Reading rather than the separate service from New St

Also curious why the 20.07 Manchester to Temple Meads only runs on Sundays

 

[PHILIPE]

Always wondered why the 20.27 Manchester to New St didn't just carry on to Reading rather than the separate service from New St

Also curious why the 20.07 Manchester to Temple Meads only runs on Sundays

Probably balancing of sets for next day

 

[swt_passenger]

A poster over on WNXX has also suggested that XC are also planning on removing a lot of diversionary route knowledge...

He probably read it here first, we touched on it earlier in this thread particularly regarding Guildford.

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Heard that XC have recently signed a new contract at Craigentinny for their HSTs to be maintained.

As discussed earlier, deep maintenance and overnight cleaning, tanking and stabling can be separated, it isn't that unusual. That single Edinburgh arrival, and the late evening Edinburgh to Newcastle service could just as easily point to cycling the HSTs through Craigentinny one at a time.

 

[Class 170101]

Disappointed about the 1225 PLY - GLC getting cut back to EDB. The 2108 EDB to GLC is always busy at the weekend as this is the last XC train (cheaper than Scotrail) from the capital to Motherwell and Glasgow. If they cut this service the latest XC train to Glasgow will now leave around 7pm.

Could extend 1S52 in lieu?

 

[221129]

Disappointed about the 1225 PLY - GLC getting cut back to EDB. The 2108 EDB to GLC is always busy at the weekend as this is the last XC train (cheaper than Scotrail) from the capital to Motherwell and Glasgow. If they cut this service the latest XC train to Glasgow will now leave around 7pm. Would there be any possibility of introducing a later NCL to GLC service? This would help reduce the impact of both the 1325 PLY to EDB HST being cut back to NCL and the 1225 PLY to GLC being cut back to EDB. It would obviously require a spare voyager to be in Newcastle.

It would put the HST out of place. As the 1225 is the HST service not the 1325.

 

[ScotTrains]

Could extend 1S52 in lieu?

That would be ideal! 1S52 Southampton to Edinburgh currently arrives only about 20 mins after the 1S51 Plymouth to Glasgow arrives in Edinburgh. It currently looks like 1S52 then just heads back to the depot. Extending it to Glasgow would only add an extra couple of hours or so and will therefore mean little change for passengers travelling from the North East to Glasgow. Is there any reason why this couldn't be done?

 

[swt_passenger]

One of the issues I have with XC is that an irregular user cannot easily find out about which trains are HSTs or doubled up Voyagers. As is often mentioned, the HSTs are clearly marked in the GW timetables for the west country, but not in the XC timetable.

As another example, there is a double Voyager on a Man Picc to Bournemouth and return trip, in the consulted timetable that runs daily at 1245 from Bournemouth (so 1315 from Southampton) northbound. Wouldn't it be a good idea to highlight it in the paper timetables as the only long train of the day? The present day double unit from Bournemouth seems to run Friday only, but later in the afternoon - and its existence is kept almost completely secret from the potential users...

 

[222007]

First evening off peak train evening train (1822) from Birmingham to Leicester (and Stansted) is reduced to a 2 car...
..

Back to the good old days hey? I remember working this as a 2car - Always got through as well if i remember

 

[D6975]

Agreed. I wonder if this might mark the start of the final decline of summer Saturday specials?

What Summer Saturdays specials?

They effectively stopped quite a few years ago now. Pretty much all that changes in the Summer is a few trains turn left at Aller to go to Paignton vice Plymouth and a couple turn right at Par to go to Newquay instead of Penzance. The number of extra services heading west struggles to get past zero.

Sitting at TM on a summer Saturday nowadays, you'd be hard pressed to tell whether it was a Sat or a weekday outside the peaks.

Memories of a procession of trains, some with Peaks being taken off, replaced with WR locos and sent back North are long gone sadly.

edit - just checked and between 0600 and 1800 last summer there were 14 XC services heading west from TM on a weekday and 15 on a Saturday - just one extra, didn't realise it was that bad, I thought it may have been 2.