Slippy rails delays today

[davehsug]

I was on the 15.25 from Plymouth to Leeds today. We were delayed near Droitwich, by trains stuck between Bromsgrove & Barnt Green due to slippery rails. We were only delayed 45 minutes or so, arriving in New St at 19.45 but there were some stories of diversions via Worcester & Kidderminster with delays of 2 hours.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

I was on the 15.25 from Plymouth to Leeds today. We were delayed near Droitwich, by trains stuck between Bromsgrove & Barn Green due to slippery rails. We were only delayed 45 minutes or so, arriving in New St at 19.45 but there were some stories of diversions via Worcester & Kidderminster with delays of 2 hours.

Yes issues on the Lickey, it seems that the RHTT has not been delivering the desired effect.

 

[tsr]

Pretty slippy across the South Central tonight, to say the least... special blanket notices out 'n' all. RHTTs have however done a fair job round here, in absolutely atrocious conditions. Light but persistent showers of cold, sleety rain which is also the first time a few of the leaves will probably have had a full soaking. There has been some lost time but from a performance picture there have been far worse troubles tonight.

 

[sprinterguy]

Yes issues on the Lickey, it seems that the RHTT has not been delivering the desired effect.

The issue was that the second pass of the RHTT over the Lickey failed to happen the night before, with no RHTT run subsequently.

A couple of Cardiff - Nottingham trains were diverted via Kidderminster and one Bristol - Manchester train terminated at Worcester.

 

[PHILIPE]

The Falmouth Branch is expected to suffer from disruption throughout today due to rail conditions. There is no RHTT booked over the route

 

[KTHV]

Came through this at about 6pm last night - delays to services from Birmingham - and several hefty delays and cancellations at Worcester Shrub Hill on routes to the Malverns and Hereford.

 

[PHILIPE]

According to NRE Website, South West Trains could suffer slippery rail problems until the end of the day on Sunday next.

 

[HowardGWR]

Yes, I was delayed from Exeter to Bristol this morning (leaves on the line near Bodmin, they said) and my 1050 XC was cancelled. My 'replacement' 1056 HST (much preferred that one of course!) was 15 mins late. On the way back, I learned while waiting in the combined waiting room/control room at St Davids that an XC from Plymouth had been stuck on Hemerdon bank and had to roll back down to Plymouth. My XC from Bristol had slipped all the way down (could hear it happening).

 

[sprinterguy]

Yeah, lots of adhesion problems encountered around Hemerdon, Totnes and Par yesterday, affecting both XC and GWR services. Though the 10:50 from Exeter was cancelled as the unit was used to rescue another stuck in the Severn Tunnel, rather than due to adhesion issues.

 

[PHILIPE]

Yes, I was delayed from Exeter to Bristol this morning (leaves on the line near Bodmin, they said) and my 1050 XC was cancelled. My 'replacement' 1056 HST (much preferred that one of course!) was 15 mins late. On the way back, I learned while waiting in the combined waiting room/control room at St Davids that an XC from Plymouth had been stuck on Hemerdon bank and had to roll back down to Plymouth. My XC from Bristol had slipped all the way down (could hear it happening).

Yeah, lots of adhesion problems encountered around Hemerdon, Totnes and Par yesterday, affecting both XC and GWR services. Though the 10:50 from Exeter was cancelled as the unit was used to rescue another stuck in the Severn Tunnel, rather than due to adhesion issues.

Quite. There were no leaves inside the Severn Tunnel as trees don't grow there

 

[Deepgreen]

According to NRE Website, South West Trains could suffer slippery rail problems until the end of the day on Sunday next.

I find this a bizarre note by NRE, as it strongly implies that SWT will be the only ones to experience problems, when it is glaringly obvious that all operators' trains are subject to the same issue. Even if it is the case that only SWT have specifically put out the warning via NRE, it would be far more responsible of NRE to apply some intelligence and expand the warning to cover all operators.

 

[PHILIPE]

NRE website now updated to indicate problems on SWT to continue until 19tj December

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How bad is it normally on the Woking-Alton line?

 

[Paul180]

How bad is it normally on the Woking-Alton line?

So far this year I haven't been any major problems but there has been some between Ash Vale and Ascot.

 

[Deepgreen]

NRE website now updated to indicate problems on SWT to continue until 19tj December

Indeed (Sunday 18th December actually), but still no other operators seem to be having adhesion problems, according to NRE! Perhaps they could all pass on their secret to SWT? I wonder what happens on the 18th that suddenly makes the rails OK in SWT-land thereafter? What a perfect example of the dis-jointed information regime across the network today.

 

[tsr]

Indeed (Sunday 18th December actually), but still no other operators seem to be having adhesion problems, according to NRE! Perhaps they could all pass on their secret to SWT? I wonder what happens on the 18th that suddenly makes the rails OK in SWT-land thereafter? What a perfect example of the dis-jointed information regime across the network today.

If they didn't have a prediction about when they might see the end of adhesion problems (which is presumably derived from a combination of weather predictions for the local area, performance of various stock as well as equipment such as traction gel applicators, observations of remaining foliage, and so on), you'd only be on here complaining that after all these years of running similar services, nobody could come up with a specific idea about when punctuality might improve, for a given range of rolling stock operating in known local environmental conditions...

 

[Juniper Driver]

If they didn't have a prediction about when they might see the end of adhesion problems (which is presumably derived from a combination of weather predictions for the local area, performance of various stock as well as equipment such as traction gel applicators, observations of remaining foliage, and so on), you'd only be on here complaining that after all these years of running similar services, nobody could come up with a specific idea about when punctuality might improve, for a given range of rolling stock operating in known local environmental conditions...

Right on.I believe it's started earlier this year but still plenty of leaves on the trees.Possibly it may clear by then but who can tell.Guess they are just covering themsleves for the worst.Belive me it's no fun for us train drivers coupled with the delays it causes.

 

[DarloRich]

If they didn't have a prediction about when they might see the end of adhesion problems (which is presumably derived from a combination of weather predictions for the local area, performance of various stock as well as equipment such as traction gel applicators, observations of remaining foliage, and so on), you'd only be on here complaining that after all these years of running similar services, nobody could come up with a specific idea about when punctuality might improve, for a given range of rolling stock operating in known local environmental conditions...

this! :roll:

 

[Deepgreen]

If they didn't have a prediction about when they might see the end of adhesion problems (which is presumably derived from a combination of weather predictions for the local area, performance of various stock as well as equipment such as traction gel applicators, observations of remaining foliage, and so on), you'd only be on here complaining that after all these years of running similar services, nobody could come up with a specific idea about when punctuality might improve, for a given range of rolling stock operating in known local environmental conditions...

No, I wouldn't. First; I wouldn't restrict my warnings about the leaf fall season to one TOC, when it affects all, and second; I would probably use the term 'until further notice' or 'until the leaf fall season ends', rather than a specific date, which, being stated as 18 December, neither reflects the new normal timetable (11 December) nor the end of the leaf fall timetable as stated on SWT's own web site (10 December)! My issue is not with the leaf fall problem, which is well known and impossible to eradicate; it is with the feeble and inconsistent information provided yet again to the public.

 

[DarloRich]

No, I wouldn't. First; I wouldn't restrict my warnings about the leaf fall season to one TOC, when it affects all, and second; I would probably use the term 'until further notice' or 'until the leaf fall season ends', rather than a specific date, which, being stated as 18 December, neither reflects the new normal timetable (11 December) nor the end of the leaf fall timetable as stated on SWT's own web site (10 December)! My issue is not with the leaf fall problem, which is well known and impossible to eradicate; it is with the feeble and inconsistent information provided yet again to the public.

but they don't limit warnings to one TOC. A simple look at twitter shows many TOCs issuing information on leaf fall problems. Northern even have a colour coded leaf to highlight the risk of delays. Most people don't use NRES as their primary info source these days.

You also, again, overlook the fact that many areas of the country have different leaf fall seasons. What is good for SWT isnt good for Northern or EMT.

 

[tsr]

Right on.I believe it's started earlier this year but still plenty of leaves on the trees.Possibly it may clear by then but who can tell.Guess they are just covering themsleves for the worst.Belive me it's no fun for us train drivers coupled with the delays it causes.

Oh, I know. ("Hello driver, did you, um, mean to stop here?" )

I am well aware leaf fall has been as tricky as ever for some routes this season, however the effects seem to have been more variable per location, which I suppose is down to the fact that this particular year's conditions have so far been less about widespread bands of storms bringing down leaves and soaking them into a layer of mulch, and more about how prone different leaves in specific locations are to causing wheelslip when crushed down on their own. This autumn has certainly been unusually calm from a wind storm point of view, so far!*

On the other hand, being less weather dependent does mean that localised predictions can now probably be more secure because you only rely on experts on lineside foliage and any prediction tools available to them, estimating a worst case scenario for disruption based on when the trees at each location are most likely to shed a certain proportion of leaves by themselves, rather than throwing quite so much meteorology into the mix as well. If the leaves have not dropped due to earlier storms, then it may take different amounts of time for subsequent conditions to remove them.

*I believe some stormier weather could now be due over the next few weeks, and a lot of trees are ready to drop a lot more leaves at a moment's notice, but we'll see what the exact effects are.

this! :roll:

Ta!

No, I wouldn't. First; I wouldn't restrict my warnings about the leaf fall season to one TOC, when it affects all, and second; I would probably use the term 'until further notice' or 'until the leaf fall season ends', rather than a specific date, which, being stated as 18 December, neither reflects the new normal timetable (11 December) nor the end of the leaf fall timetable as stated on SWT's own web site (10 December)! My issue is not with the leaf fall problem, which is well known and impossible to eradicate; it is with the feeble and inconsistent information provided yet again to the public.

See my third paragraph in reply to Juniper Driver above. This year it seems effects are much more localised, bar a few specific days where things have "come to a head" if you will pardon the awful pun, and it is quite possible that an expert prediction of an extended range of leaf fall conditions can be made with a range of a few days. Leaf fall does not simply comply with broader pre-planned autumn timetabling, which was probably done some time ago on the basis of sharp stormy weather bringing a lot of leaves down in one go, as we have seen over the last few years. To extend the prediction of disruption a little, based on the advice of those monitoring lineside vegetation, is clearly prudent when we have spent so much of autumn with relatively placid weather, just waiting for leaves to come down all by themselves! Even if there are some quite strong winds over the next few days, it may take longer than usual with certain trees around the country.

It is also entirely sensible to use tools built for shorter-term disruption, such as web alerts / JourneyCheck, to provide prominent alerts to a short-term modification to what was evidently a timetable planned on something of a "best endeavours" sort of basis.

Anyway, I am very surprised that you are actually complaining of being informed of a potential (and possibly even quite minor) effect on punctuality with almost a month to go, no doubt based on a lot of hard work and complicated predictions relating to trackside electronics, traction knowledge, meteorology, you name it. If this was related to fixing something at Redhill station, you'd be complaining that you weren't informed in such a way...

(In any case, by 18 December you could well be seeing similar effects on punctuality due to winter weather! Maybe the reason does not matter after all...)

 

[Deepgreen]

Oh, I know. ("Hello driver, did you, um, mean to stop here?" )

I am well aware leaf fall has been as tricky as ever for some routes this season, however the effects seem to have been more variable per location, which I suppose is down to the fact that this particular year's conditions have so far been less about widespread bands of storms bringing down leaves and soaking them into a layer of mulch, and more about how prone different leaves in specific locations are to causing wheelslip when crushed down on their own. This autumn has certainly been unusually calm from a wind storm point of view, so far!*

On the other hand, being less weather dependent does mean that localised predictions can now probably be more secure because you only rely on experts on lineside foliage and any prediction tools available to them, estimating a worst case scenario for disruption based on when the trees at each location are most likely to shed a certain proportion of leaves by themselves, rather than throwing quite so much meteorology into the mix as well. If the leaves have not dropped due to earlier storms, then it may take different amounts of time for subsequent conditions to remove them.

*I believe some stormier weather could now be due over the next few weeks, and a lot of trees are ready to drop a lot more leaves at a moment's notice, but we'll see what the exact effects are.



Ta!



See my third paragraph in reply to Juniper Driver above. This year it seems effects are much more localised, bar a few specific days where things have "come to a head" if you will pardon the awful pun, and it is quite possible that an expert prediction of an extended range of leaf fall conditions can be made with a range of a few days. Leaf fall does not simply comply with broader pre-planned autumn timetabling, which was probably done some time ago on the basis of sharp stormy weather bringing a lot of leaves down in one go, as we have seen over the last few years. To extend the prediction of disruption a little, based on the advice of those monitoring lineside vegetation, is clearly prudent when we have spent so much of autumn with relatively placid weather, just waiting for leaves to come down all by themselves! Even if there are some quite strong winds over the next few days, it may take longer than usual with certain trees around the country.

It is also entirely sensible to use tools built for shorter-term disruption, such as web alerts / JourneyCheck, to provide prominent alerts to a short-term modification to what was evidently a timetable planned on something of a "best endeavours" sort of basis.

Anyway, I am very surprised that you are actually complaining of being informed of a potential (and possibly even quite minor) effect on punctuality with almost a month to go, no doubt based on a lot of hard work and complicated predictions relating to trackside electronics, traction knowledge, meteorology, you name it. If this was related to fixing something at Redhill station, you'd be complaining that you weren't informed in such a way...

(In any case, by 18 December you could well be seeing similar effects on punctuality due to winter weather! Maybe the reason does not matter after all...)

In short, then, why has SWT said on NRE that it will have leaf fall problems until 18 December when its own leaf fall timetable ends on 10 December? Nothing has suddenly developed that extends the season by 8 days beyond the leaf fall timetable. The lack of consistency points to a haphazard approach. Other operators have been experiencing problems (I experience them on Southern and GWR every day, and the Lickey Incline has been mentioned elsewhere) but only SWT is shown on NRE. Either the NRE web site is used by the public for gleaning information or it is not - if it is, make it consistent. If it is not, don't put anything there because it won't be used. One can't have it both ways. As it stands, it's just another example of the railway's disjointed and arbitrary approach to operation and information.

Regarding Redhill - too right! I expect (and understand) the problems with leaf fall every year, but I don't (or shouldn't have to) expect the equipment and basic information failures we experience at Redhill (and elsewhere). There's a big difference.

 

[PHILIPE]

Indeed (Sunday 18th December actually), but still no other operators seem to be having adhesion problems, according to NRE! Perhaps they could all pass on their secret to SWT? I wonder what happens on the 18th that suddenly makes the rails OK in SWT-land thereafter? What a perfect example of the dis-jointed information regime across the network today.

South Eastern shown also here on NRE until Wednesday, 23rd November

Now altered to show until end of day today

 

[hibtastic]

My TPE service from Manchester Picc to Stalybridge was delayed by around 30 minutes last night due to poor track conditions apparently. Mind you, other TPE services heading east were suffering delays of over 60mins due to a trespass incident, so not a good night for them really.

 

[robbeech]

I caught the 1641 from MAN, that crawled all the way to Huddersfield (and beyond) Luckily i didn't get a later service.

 

[BestWestern]

Hard work between Reading and Basingstoke this afternoon, one set (150001) caped due to technical issues and remaining Turbos struggling to get a firm footing. XC's already coming down late from the north will presumably hit further delays on that stretch.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Conditions have been poor all over today. My train earlier (1225 Denby Dale to Huddersfield) managed to lose 6 minutes on the climb out of Barnsley to Dodworth and a further 5 between Dodworth and Denby Dale. Apparently there were problems up Salterhebble bank and at Bradford Interchange too.

Heading into Leeds this evening so hopefully 5 185s an hour will have kept the rails clear!

 

[PHILIPE]

The Cardiff Valleys have experienced heavy delays this week due to slippery rails and trains having to run at reduced speed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed (Sunday 18th December actually), but still no other operators seem to be having adhesion problems, according to NRE! Perhaps they could all pass on their secret to SWT? I wonder what happens on the 18th that suddenly makes the rails OK in SWT-land thereafter? What a perfect example of the dis-jointed information regime across the network today.

Now altered to show until November 20th
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

South Eastern shown also here on NRE until Wednesday, 23rd November

Now altered to show until end of day today

 

[Paul180]

Aldershot to Ascot is shut to end of service and the rail replacement bus was having issues due to a falling tree on the A30.

 

[Martin_1981]

Yes, I was delayed from Exeter to Bristol this morning (leaves on the line near Bodmin, they said) and my 1050 XC was cancelled. My 'replacement' 1056 HST (much preferred that one of course!) was 15 mins late. On the way back, I learned while waiting in the combined waiting room/control room at St Davids that an XC from Plymouth had been stuck on Hemerdon bank and had to roll back down to Plymouth. My XC from Bristol had slipped all the way down (could hear it happening).

I had this last December when I caught the 10:46 XC HST from Exeter to Plymouth. After leaving Totnes the power cars (304 and 378) where wheelspinning up Rattery Bank and was down to about 10mph in places, with the carriages jerking back and forth. We almost came to a complete stand, but it made the top and arrival in Plymouth was only 5 minutes late. Quite entertaining actually.