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Panorama - 7 November 2016
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IanD
Established Member
Yes, I am aware that's why I moved to Milton Keynes. It's not really the TOCs fault that house prices/rents/parking fees in London have gone through the roof.
It's a choice you've made to commute to London. There was a third alternative on the list which was to find work closer to where you live. You may not want to select any of those options for various reasons (eg high house prices, horrendous traffic, loss of income) but they are still there.
Some people have the option of moving closer to where the jobs are, the point that was being made is that people have more choice than they like to make out. Yes a job outside London will have a lower salary but that is partially offset by not paying thousands for a season ticket. Eve if the disposable income still ends up lower, is that really so bad? As long as you have enough to live on plus a bit extra for luxuries then what is the problem? You have the benefit of not spending the best part of two hours each way just getting too and from work. This gives more time for leisure and family, i.e. the things that genuinely elevate quality of life. Life is so much more than the size of the paycheck, unfortunately decades of pushing the neoliberal capitalism has brainwashed people into believing it is all about money money money money money and nothing else matters, then we wonder why people are unhappy despite living in a wealthy western democratic country.
It is why some people are opting to work 4 days a week (as although pre tax pay falls by 20% the take home portion doesn't fall by that much), as if one person in a couple does it then they can spend most of their evenings and weekends together and not doing housework. Leading to a much better quality of life with not a large impact on income.
Some of the loss of income can be offset by not being reliant so on expensive ready meals and takeaways, as well as the travel cost savings for that day. Likewise, depending on your view, it reduces the need to consider to have a cleaner or buy expensive labour saving devices which can be done without. All of which can add up over time.
Yes not everyone could do it, but for some it can make a big difference.
Just as an example someone on £25,000 working for 5 days a week would have a monthly take home of £1,680.60, if they were to reduce to 4 days a week this would fall to £1,397.27. Although that would be about £285 a month less to live on, it could mean a much better lifestyle and so the need to buy rewards to feel good could be lessened, the need to pay gym membership could be reduced (i.e. going for a bike ride on your day off) and being a lot less stressed could all add up to it being worth doing even with the loss of income.
WatcherZero
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I thought the presenter was better informed than most about the way they actually work but still didnt avoid repeating the tropes. The independent regulator being owned by Abellio before now being willing to sell was new to me but still didnt really feel sorry for the man who had spent four years on legal proceedings and complaints when their kid had simply been caught trying one on with an invalid ticket.
And of course changing jobs is really easy for many people not!
misterredmist
Member
BBC uncover crowded commuter trains into our largest City shock.......
whilst I sympathise with the poor 'customers' of Southern with their canx trains and ongoing disputes.....it's not going to improve anytime soon.
Although I reside within the London commuter belt, I don't have to work in London, but many of my neighbours do, and they accept that's what it says on the tin, they leave early, arrive home late and the train journey isn't always that great. but they acknowledge that's their lifestyle choice.
Some of them do benefit from either working from home for a couple of days and others can work flexible hours.....but most have the daily 'slog'
I just think the demand on those peak services will always be ahead of the equipment available curve as is the case in most of the globe's largest cities.
whilst I sympathise with the poor 'customers' of Southern with their canx trains and ongoing disputes.....it's not going to improve anytime soon.
Although I reside within the London commuter belt, I don't have to work in London, but many of my neighbours do, and they accept that's what it says on the tin, they leave early, arrive home late and the train journey isn't always that great. but they acknowledge that's their lifestyle choice.
Some of them do benefit from either working from home for a couple of days and others can work flexible hours.....but most have the daily 'slog'
I just think the demand on those peak services will always be ahead of the equipment available curve as is the case in most of the globe's largest cities.
IanD
Established Member
Never said it was - but if you're not happy with the current situation you are in, it's up to you to do something about it. You can't expect the TOCs or the DfT to lay on extra/longer trains just for you at the drop of a hat.
Like many you missed the point. He was making the point - and eventually he did - that the "independent" review of a penalty fare was anything but. How fair is it if someone is issued with a penalty fare which they think is not fair to have their appeal held by the company that issued the penalty fare in the first place?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
People will accept that (because they can see that), what the gripe is, is what they're being charged. Please don't bleat on about how they're - in effect - getting a discount. £4,500 is a big chunk out of a £35,000 salary no matter how you look at it.
the last sentence of the programme was depressing but also probably accurate.
the presenter said "welcome to the new normal" and yes he is right because overcrowding is only going to get worse.
a couple of years back I was planning to move out of London but I then checked what my rail journey would be like...I stayed in zone 5. Ok it costs more to live there, yes I have a smaller place than I would ideally like but the time saved on a longer commute is in my opinion worth it. Lets face it, it is not just the longer time each day, it is the increasingly stressful longer time each day. My commute is still long enough, but I still have an "evening". I wonder how many other people are going to opt for shorter journeys if possible in the future.
the presenter said "welcome to the new normal" and yes he is right because overcrowding is only going to get worse.
a couple of years back I was planning to move out of London but I then checked what my rail journey would be like...I stayed in zone 5. Ok it costs more to live there, yes I have a smaller place than I would ideally like but the time saved on a longer commute is in my opinion worth it. Lets face it, it is not just the longer time each day, it is the increasingly stressful longer time each day. My commute is still long enough, but I still have an "evening". I wonder how many other people are going to opt for shorter journeys if possible in the future.
You could always change location and job completely.
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11744553
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11744553
Not very aspirational is it?
WatcherZero
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No i wasnt, I agreed about the lack of independence but it would not have affected the decision of the appeal or his arrogance in fighting it for so long as he only recently discovered about the ownership and it was something the company was quite open about being an anomaly that needed to be sorted.
I agree it's shame panorama is no longer an hour long, but the RDG man is a tool. That's the sort of thing you think but don't say maybe...
I thought that the programme was all over the place and was not sure where it was going with that final bit. Suffice to say that in their business case for Crossrail 2, TFL claim that London's population will rise by 1.8 million by 2028 (I think that's about the size of Brum). Is the railway going to be able magic up that sort of capacity?
The one good thing about the programme, though was that Woolmar wasn't on it.
I just watched the episode there. The split ticketing piece highlights exactly how a fragmented railway does not work. Paul Plummer made an absolute fool of himself with his comment about how the railway industry could not tackle ticket pricing alone. More worrying though was his completely stupid, crass and downright ignorant closing comment about people's choices. The man should be sacked if he holds such a low regard for the 'customers'!
Neither. It's on BBC iPlayer. Click here to watch.
However, you legally need a TV license in order to watch. And it's probably only available in the UK.
However, you legally need a TV license in order to watch. And it's probably only available in the UK.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Thanks!
Don't worry, I live in the UK! And we pay our TV license...!!
Butts
Veteran Member
To allow a balanced view they should have featured me riding around in empty 1st Class Carriages between Falkirk and various venues in the North of England having paid literally peanuts for my tickets.
Having paid £20 Return or so I have the temerity to complain about the number of eggs in my complimentary breakfast
Lack of free Scotch or decent goodies in the Lounges is another constant source of irritation.
A different world indeed
Having paid £20 Return or so I have the temerity to complain about the number of eggs in my complimentary breakfast
Lack of free Scotch or decent goodies in the Lounges is another constant source of irritation.A different world indeed
I haven't watched yet, but did see the BBC 'advert' news story on Monday. I do think it would be nice if a programme maker could perhaps point out that trains being late is often down to the fault of commuters blocking doors etc.
Which was pointed out is due to over crowding.
swanhill41
Member
I decided to watch the programme with some apprehension,that it would a waste of time,and yes it was .
The programme had 25 or so minutes to make its point,which it did by the usual method of heavy handed headlines of Pacer bashing etc...Yes they are there,but come late 2018 onwards at the latest ,they will be on their way to scrapping.
For the enthusiast in the know,boring,but good light entertainment to the uneducated on the subject.
Frankly was more concerned read the Southern issues.
The programme had 25 or so minutes to make its point,which it did by the usual method of heavy handed headlines of Pacer bashing etc...Yes they are there,but come late 2018 onwards at the latest ,they will be on their way to scrapping.
For the enthusiast in the know,boring,but good light entertainment to the uneducated on the subject.
Frankly was more concerned read the Southern issues.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
To allow a balanced view they should have featured me riding around in empty 1st Class Carriages between Falkirk and various venues in the North of England having paid literally peanuts for my tickets.
Having paid £20 Return or so I have the temerity to complain about the number of eggs in my complimentary breakfast
A different world indeed
Cool... on the off-chance that you do go independent, any chance you could annex Yorkshire while you're at it?
if he'd said "if you want to work in the capital youve got to put up with crowded trains" that wouldve made more sense....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
it was meant to be shown 2 weeks ago and apparantly it was gonna be all about Southern.... but for whatever reason it was delayed and changed.
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If I'm completely honest, the most I paid attention to was the thanks to Wroxham Miniature Worlds in the end credits, a place only a few miles down the road from me!
Because there aren't enough trains for them to fit in. Try Croydon to Victoria/London Bridge between 07.00 and 09.00 any weekday morning and post again.
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