EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[gareth950]

And who says that those people who have come from overseas are second class human beings?

Have you not seen any of the vitriolic hate coming out of the right wing press towards anyone that isn't white British?
Anyone who reads The Sun, The Express, The Daily Mail, The Times and The Telegraph think that since 24th June we should be living in a pure white British country.
No differing skin colour, eye colour, non-British accents or non-British dress are allowed. Does that remind us of any other time in world History?

 

[RichmondCommu]

You are saying exactly that. You are saying that people from elsewhere in Europe should not necessarily have the right to live in the UK, while British people should. How does that not make people from overseas "second class human beings", who are treating differently, and worse, than British people?

Please *think* about what you are saying.

I'm *thinking* about what I'm saying because for many years I've been married to a wonderful woman of Indian descent and we have three amazing mixed race children.

I'm not denying anyone the right to live in the UK, all I'm suggesting is that we need to start listening to those who voted Brexit and to start taking on board their concerns / fears / worries.

I have no problem with immigrants living in this country but the Brexit vote showed very clearly that we need to get a handle on things. Something which the leadership of my own party (Labour) is less than keen to do.

 

[Steveman]

Have you not seen any of the vitriolic hate coming out of the right wing press towards anyone that isn't white British?
Anyone who reads The Sun, The Express, The Daily Mail, The Times and The Telegraph think that since 24th June we should be living in a pure white British country.
No differing skin colour, eye colour, non-British accents or non-British dress are allowed. Does that remind us of any other time in world History?

Well as all leavers are stupid, xenophobic, racist, scum you might as well add they're a Nazi as well.

 

[Harbornite]

Have you not seen any of the vitriolic hate coming out of the right wing press towards anyone that isn't white British?
Anyone who reads The Sun, The Express, The Daily Mail, The Times and The Telegraph think that since 24th June we should be living in a pure white British country.
No differing skin colour, eye colour, non-British accents or non-British dress are allowed. Does that remind us of any other time in world History?

There's a degree of truth to this, but don't overreact or use hyperbole. Give me an example of any of those newspapers wanting everyone to have an identical eye colour.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Have you not seen any of the vitriolic hate coming out of the right wing press towards anyone that isn't white British?
Anyone who reads The Sun, The Express, The Daily Mail, The Times and The Telegraph think that since 24th June we should be living in a pure white British country.
No differing skin colour, eye colour, non-British accents or non-British dress are allowed. Does that remind us of any other time in world History?

Oh please don't talk such rot! None of those papers have ever suggested that only white people should live in this country.

In fact I think you are a pathetic individual for suggesting that in the first place.

 

[radamfi]

I'm not denying anyone the right to live in the UK, all I'm suggesting is that we need to start listening to those who voted Brexit and to start taking on board their concerns / fears / worries.

I have no problem with immigrants living in this country but the Brexit vote showed very clearly that we need to get a handle on things. Something which the leadership of my own party (Labour) is less than keen to do.

I'm afraid you have to choose one path or the other. Either you agree with the European ideal and therefore accept unlimited EU immigration (in and out of the UK) and so upset the uneducated working class, or you go down the Donald Trump route of protectionism and strict immigration rules.

 

[Johnuk123]

I'm afraid you have to choose one path or the other. Either you agree with the European ideal and therefore accept unlimited EU immigration (in and out of the UK) and so upset the uneducated working class, or you go down the Donald Trump route of protectionism and strict immigration rules.

All the working class are thick now, keep on digging.

 

[radamfi]

All the working class are thick now, keep on digging.

There are educated working class and uneducated working class people.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Oh please don't talk such rot! None of those papers have ever suggested that only white people should live in this country.

In fact I think you are a pathetic individual for suggesting that in the first place.

I don't think that they would say it....but they certainly go out of their way to infer it!

 

[Johnuk123]

There are educated working class and uneducated working class people.

You should have said it then.

 

[Harbornite]

You should have said it then.

Surely it goes without saying?

 

[radamfi]

You should have said it then.

But I was only talking about the uneducated working class people, not the educated.

 

[anme]

I'm *thinking* about what I'm saying because for many years I've been married to a wonderful woman of Indian descent and we have three amazing mixed race children.

I'm not denying anyone the right to live in the UK, all I'm suggesting is that we need to start listening to those who voted Brexit and to start taking on board their concerns / fears / worries.

I have no problem with immigrants living in this country but the Brexit vote showed very clearly that we need to get a handle on things. Something which the leadership of my own party (Labour) is less than keen to do.

You say we should listen to those who voted for brexit. Well fine, listening is free and easy. We can do that without leaving the EU or stopping any immigration. Is that good enough for you?

I actually assume you want some action.

 

[gareth950]

I don't think that they would say it....but they certainly go out of their way to infer it!

Obviously I was exaggerating, but yes, the newspapers certainly do infer it, although you have to be able to read between the lines of their ridiculous stories. The hysterical reaction by the press to yesterday's high court ruling, which was not in any way, shape or form a ruling to stop Brexit, is a case in point of how hyperbole is now the normal in the media.

What is frightening is that plenty of people have been ringing into radio phone-ins today believing every word that the newspapers have printed about the ruling apparently 'blocking brexit'.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I don't think that they would say it....but they certainly go out of their way to infer it!

I absolutely don't think that they do. I don't think those papers have a problem whatsoever with anyone who is none White. However I absolutely agree that the Daily Mail and Daily Express reaction to those who wish to see Brexit debated in the Commons is nothing short of a disgrace.
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But I was only talking about the uneducated working class people, not the educated.

Do you have an issue with so called uneducated working class people. Do you feel that they are inferior to you? Do you feel that their voice should not be heard?

 

[Trog]

You are saying exactly that. You are saying that people from elsewhere in Europe should not necessarily have the right to live in the UK, while British people should. How does that not make people from overseas "second class human beings", who are treating differently, and worse, than British people?

Please *think* about what you are saying.

If you thought about it you would have realised that if British people do not have a reciprocal right to live/work elsewhere in Europe, people from elsewhere in Europe who are not allowed to live/work here are in fact being treated equally not as second class human beings. It may not be a good situation but it is in a strict sense fair.

 

[RichmondCommu]

You say we should listen to those who voted for brexit. Well fine, listening is free and easy. We can do that without leaving the EU or stopping any immigration. Is that good enough for you?

I actually assume you want some action.

Well one would assume that as a politician if they actually listened to people as they aired their issues they would then do something to help them as opposed to ignoring them. Sadly the Labour leadership are not interested in doing that.

Would you prefer that politicians ignored those millions of people that have an issue with immigration?

 

[LateThanNever]

Well one would assume that as a politician if they actually listened to people as they aired their issues they would then do something to help them as opposed to ignoring them. Sadly the Labour leadership are not interested in doing that.

Would you prefer that politicians ignored those millions of people that have an issue with immigration?

Whilst I'm sure they do ignore those people, the answer in fact is to spend adequate resources/ money for education/ health etc to keep up with immigration. Something the government has been cavalier in avioding.

There is no money do I hear you cry? But yet there is money for quantitative easing. So if there is money for banks there is indeed money for everyone.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Whilst I'm sure they do ignore those people, the answer in fact is to spend adequate resources/ money for education/ health etc to keep up with immigration. Something the government has been cavalier in avioding.

Yes I think that's a very good point and that is what I was explaining on the door at the last election and indeed the referendum.

The sad fact is that the Labour Party is in no shape to win the next election and change things. However it could certainly do with listening to its traditional support.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, we have the high court deciding that parliament should have a say on the sort of Brexit we have.

This sounds to me like our constitution is working more democratically than it's ever worked before. Compare to all the years when our laws were affected by royal ( I.e.executive) perogative through treaties. This court ruling is correct IMO

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There is no money do I hear you cry? But yet there is money for quantitative easing. So if there is money for banks there is indeed money for everyone.

From where do you think quantitive easing originates and do you really believe actual existing finance is needed to facilitate such a matter?
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Well, we have the high court deciding that parliament should have a say on the sort of Brexit we have.

Indeed, a pity that the High Court have no remit over the latest Labour Party plans for belittling the role of the existing Labour Party Members of Parliament under the Corbyn/Momentum decree..:roll:

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed, a pity that the High Court have no remit over the latest Labour Party plans for belittling the role of the existing Labour Party Members of Parliament under the Corbyn/Momentum decree..:roll:

Ah well, I doubt the High Court would concern itself with internal party affairs !

 

[Starmill]

I'll tell you what really got me with current news was the 'wrong' Gina Miller on Twitter, a US Sport journalist, recieved "absolutely vitriolic" messages including "death threats" from some UK based vile Brexit-supporting scum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37869797

 

[EM2]

Would you prefer that politicians ignored those millions of people that have an issue with immigration?

I would prefer that politicians didn't ignore millions of people whatever their issue, whether that be staying in the EU, leaving the EU, illegal wars in Iraq, the NHS, austerity, cuts to public services, tax avoidance by large corporations, increases in university tuition fees, the bedroom tax, cuts to welfare and so on.
It's fine for Westminster to ignore all of those, but not immigration?

 

[Harbornite]

I'll tell you what really got me with current news was the 'wrong' Gina Miller on Twitter, a US Sport journalist, recieved "absolutely vitriolic" messages including "death threats" from some UK based vile Brexit-supporting scum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37869797

I referred to that incident in post #3170. It sums up how unintelligent some brexiters are.

That's not to say that some brexit supports have never received abuse, but nothing this bad.

 

[NSEFAN]

What seems to have happened is the EU referendum act created a referendum with a question. The act however contained no instructions on what to do based on the result (i.e. which laws to change or repeal), and since our EU membership is dependent upon legislation, legally parliament must be involved if we want to change our membership status. Why was this not explained or seen to before the referendum was called? It looks like the public have been misled about the legal status of their vote, which it seems wasn't legally worth he paper it was written on.

The only force now that can make us Brexit is a political one. There's surely no legal mechanism to prevent the government from ignoring the vote? (Even though this is unlikely because of the political consequences). What an absolute cock up.

 

[anme]

If you thought about it you would have realised that if British people do not have a reciprocal right to live/work elsewhere in Europe, people from elsewhere in Europe who are not allowed to live/work here are in fact being treated equally not as second class human beings. It may not be a good situation but it is in a strict sense fair.

But you do have the right to live and work in other European countries on an equal basis with local people! And you want to throw it away!

Do you not understand that?! Does nobody care?

 

[yorksrob]

Out of interest, does anybody know whether the European parliament will be having a vote on the European negotiating stance, or has there been any such clamour for it to have such a role ?

 

[Trog]

But you do have the right to live and work in other European countries on an equal basis with local people! And you want to throw it away!

Do you not understand that?! Does nobody care?

Yes I understand that currently I have a right to live and work in other EU countries the same as their people have the right to live and work here. I was just pointing out that if both side lose that right there is no discrimination or second class people as all are being treated equally.

As for caring this right is of no real use to me as I do not have a passport and have not even been outside England let alone the UK for about thirty years.


I did once visit France to see for myself what it was like, but having found it to be an industrial slum liberally bespattered with dog muck. I caught the next ferry back to Dover, which was much the same but with a less liberal coating of dog muck.

 

[anme]

Out of interest, does anybody know whether the European parliament will be having a vote on the European negotiating stance, or has there been any such clamour for it to have such a role ?

It's largely a matter for individual member states. There won't be a single European negotiating stance, but 27 separate stances which may or may not be aligned to some degree.

What completely astonishes me, and gives the impression that all British people, remainers and leavers, are morons, is the complete lack of interest in what comes next. Does no one care about the difference between a soft and a hard brexit? Does no one value, even a little bit, the rights you will lose if a hard brexit happens? I've never seen this discussed at all and explaining it to a British person is like explaining quantum physics to squirrel - you can try but you won't find any sign on their little faces that they understand.

Just look at the reaction to events this week. Europe is surely better off without us.