Lorry driver jailed for A34 horror

[RichmondCommu]

They would be, if there was a reasonable chance of getting caught. Enforcement is down almost 90% over the last 5 years, but the rate of offending is not decreasing.

My (very) rough calculations, based on various statistics, is that one motorist is caught for every 10,000 hours of offending.

(In this case, it's not actually important that it was a mobile phone - it could potentially have been an ipod, or even an in-car entertainment system, with the same result.)

Married to a Police Officer I don't doubt for one minute what you are saying. The law needs to be changed so that if you are caught using your phone whilst driving you are automatically banned from driving.

 

[Hornet]

Videos like this should be played during primetime ad breaks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9swS1Vl6Ok

Northern Irish Road Safety Video's are pretty thought provoking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv1rKHGeMRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf9Jw4xZY-s

 

[Antman]

Married to a Police Officer I don't doubt for one minute what you are saying. The law needs to be changed so that if you are caught using your phone whilst driving you are automatically banned from driving.

Yes I would very much agree with that, a ban of at very least 28 days for a first offence with longer bans for any repeat offences.

Unfortunately the law seems to be playing catch up all the time and it is quite remarkable really that for many years it was perfectly legal to use a phone whilst driving, sat navs are another serious distraction.

 

[Senex]

I'm sure you are right in some situations, but I have to ask what sort of punishment confiscation of a vehicle belonging to someone else would have on this driver, it also seems that, from various media reports of repeat offenders, that many people will drive whether they have a licence or insurance, if this particular person was of that view then he would continue to put other people at risk. He is reported to have signed a document with his employer regarding the use of phones while driving and, obviously, took no notice of that whatsoever, it could be argued that he is a perfect example of someone who most certainly does need to be kept out of circulation

If it's your own vehicle, then it's clearly a punishment. If it belongs to someone else, as will generally be the case with a commercial vehicle, then forfeiture would be a strong incentive for the employer to take matters more seriously. There is the report of the signing of a document, as you say, but there is also that video taken in the cab that clearly shews what the driver was up to. So the employer put surveillance kit in the cab, but then had no mechanism for routinely checking what it recorded - or wasn't interested in doing so. Or are we supposed to believe this this behaviour was a one-off aberration for this driver?

 

[DarloRich]

I suppose it depends on whether you think our justice system should be about revenge or rehabilitation? If revenge then a life sentence for taking a life would seem equitable (though surely the death penalty would be best?) whilst if its rehabilitation then the sentence actually handed down seems like it might be about right.

exactly - the system is one of punishment and rehabilitation rather than revenge.

The maximum punishment for this offence is 14 years. This person got 10 years after a guilty plea.

How does locking someone up in prison rehabilitate them? Punish them, deter them from reoffending, deter others... I can see how it might do any of those things, but rehabilitate???

It is designed to give you time whilst incarcerated to consider the error of your ways and undertake to do something better when you get out. Coupled with that is an opportunity for training and self improvement to reduce the likelihood of re offending. That's the theory at least...........

 

[Tetchytyke]

Since he'll serve only five years if he behaves, it's only 15 months per life lost, which is pathetic for a crime as deliberate as his

He pleaded guilty- saving the family the horror of a trial- and so he received a 33% discount on his sentence for this. He received a sentence of ten years after the discount was applied, which is the maximum sentence available for this crime (the maximum sentence is 14 years before discounts).

If you think the sentence for death by dangerous driving should be higher, then you should write to your MP to push for a change in the law.

Also, deliberate? I don't think he set out that morning with the intention of killing four people and destroying his own life. He behaved extremely foolishly, but not deliberately. He didn't mean to kill those people.

 

[GB]

I imagine Senex might mean deliberate action rather than deliberate crime.

Edit: Then again he may mean deliberate crime in using a mobile knowing the potential consequences.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Married to a Police Officer I don't doubt for one minute what you are saying. The law needs to be changed so that if you are caught using your phone whilst driving you are automatically banned from driving.

It's fundamentally the same as drink driving.

Anybody with sufficient contempt and disregard for everyone's safety to think that it is appropriate to concentrate on a screen while driving demonstrates, very clearly, that they are not a suitable person to hold a licence and that they do not have the level of responsibility required for driving.

 

[Senex]

I imagine Senex might mean deliberate action rather than deliberate crime.

Edit: Then again he may mean deliberate crime in using a mobile knowing the potential consequences.

Thanks -- I meant the latter. No driver now has any excuse for not knowing that it is an offence to use a mobile whilst driving and for not knowing that the reason it is an offence is the very high risk that a driver's attention will be diverted with possibly fatal consequences. There has been enough publicity and discussion in the media.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Married to a Police Officer I don't doubt for one minute what you are saying. The law needs to be changed so that if you are caught using your phone whilst driving you are automatically banned from driving.

I occasionally use my phone whilst I drive. My car has integrated bluetooth and I can call anyone just by pressing a button on the steering wheel and saying "call x" or receive a call by pressing a button on the steering wheel. My hand never leaves the steering wheel and my eyes never leave the road. If I encounter a situation then I go silent and concentrate on my driving just as I would if I was talking to a passenger in the car. Texts wait until the ignition is off. That is still technically using my phone.

Should I lose my licence? I am breaking no law. My priority and due care and attention is focussed on the road, my driving and other people on or about the road.

Now I agree that anyone caught holding their phone whilst driving should be banned - ideally for a year, the same as anyone caught driving whilst under the influence of drink or drugs, but this requires enough traffic officers to enforce it. Unfortunately the number of police officers seems to be going down, not up, meaning whilst I see people holding their phone to their ear and driving and worse (I often see people texting whilst I am in jams on the motorway) in greater numbers than I did 5 years ago, the number of people getting caught has dropped.

But then we also need parity. It is not an offence to use a two way radio whilst driving (for example CB or Ham Radio). This should have the same penalties as using a hand held phone whilst driving as the dangers are the same.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Should I lose my licence? I am breaking no law. My priority and due care and attention is focussed on the road, my driving and other people on or about the road.

If you're not breaking the law then clearly you should not prosecuted, indeed I would have thought that was obvious.

 

[Bodiddly]

If you're not breaking the law then clearly you should not prosecuted, indeed I would have thought that was obvious.

There is a huge difference between talking hands free and holding your handset. Indeed, most incidents happen during texting or looking at the screen rather than the talking into the handset. A proper hands free system integrated into the car such as bluetooth is both legal and safe.
I have two cars, one with a bluetooth system, the other not. When I drive the car without the bluetooth, I leave my mobile phone in the door pocket of the passenger side. If I get a call or text, I can pull over to check who was trying to contact me but normally I'm not that bothered!

 

[Antman]

There is a huge difference between talking hands free and holding your handset. Indeed, most incidents happen during texting or looking at the screen rather than the talking into the handset. A proper hands free system integrated into the car such as bluetooth is both legal and safe.
I have two cars, one with a bluetooth system, the other not. When I drive the car without the bluetooth, I leave my mobile phone in the door pocket of the passenger side. If I get a call or text, I can pull over to check who was trying to contact me but normally I'm not that bothered!

Hands free is legal, well at the moment anyway, but whether it's safe is another matter. I know people say it's no different to talking to a passenger in the car but even my wife can be quiet for a minute or two if I'm negotiating a busy junction but obviously somebody on the other end of the phone won't know you're negotiating a busy junction.

 

[GB]

I know people say it's no different to talking to a passenger in the car but even my wife can be quiet for a minute or two if I'm negotiating a busy junction but obviously somebody on the other end of the phone won't know you're negotiating a busy junction.

I don't buy that argument. As a driver you should be able to decide where to focus your attention on. If your on hands free and about to negotiate a junction simply ignore the voice on the phone for a few moments.

Incidentally, how to people cope with small children or animals in the car who may not have the capacity or understanding to be quiet?

 

[Antman]

I don't buy that argument. As a driver you should be able to decide where to focus your attention on. If your on hands free and about to negotiate a junction simply ignore the voice on the phone for a few moments.

Incidentally, how to people cope with small children or animals in the car who may not have the capacity or understanding to be quiet?

I think that's is easier said than done, if somebody on the phone is asking you an awkward question at an inopportune moment then you're chances of failing to see that motorcyclist before you pull out is greatly increased.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I think that's is easier said than done, if somebody on the phone is asking you an awkward question at an inopportune moment then you're chances of failing to see that motorcyclist before you pull out is greatly increased.

If I make or take a call I always say that I am driving and hands free and that the call will be brief. Worst case if someone starts to drone on the there is a button on the wheel I press that cuts them off. Yes it may be rude, but I'd rather **** someone off than let my driving be affected.

I would also add as a motorcyclist that car and van drivers awareness of motorcycles is bloody awful whether or not they are on their phone.

 

[Antman]

If I make or take a call I always say that I am driving and hands free and that the call will be brief. Worst case if someone starts to drone on the there is a button on the wheel I press that cuts them off. Yes it may be rude, but I'd rather **** someone off than let my driving be affected.

I would also add as a motorcyclist that car and van drivers awareness of motorcycles is bloody awful whether or not they are on their phone.

I totally agree with you on both counts, I might call the wife on the voice activated hands free to say I'll be in late or whatever and that's it, under no circumstances will I engage in a long winded conversation with anybody.

I've done some motorcycling and was constantly wondering whether that driver that was about to emerge from a side street had seen me and phone use can only exacerbate the problem.

 

[Johnuk123]

Hands free is very much not safe, even with both hands on the wheel if you're having a conversation whilst driving your road concentration has to be diminished, that is simply a fact.

 

[Temple Meads]

Hands free is very much not safe, even with both hands on the wheel if you're having a conversation whilst driving your road concentration has to be diminished, that is simply a fact.

The same thing applies with passengers, so unless you're going to ban all talking in vehicles I would say it's a non starter.

 

[Johnuk123]

The same thing applies with passengers, so unless you're going to ban all talking in vehicles I would say it's a non starter.

I didn't say it should be banned because you're correct what you say I just said anybody who calls it safe is wrong.

 

[Antman]

The same thing applies with passengers, so unless you're going to ban all talking in vehicles I would say it's a non starter.

Talking to passengers is totally different, they can see when it's not the right time to distract you but somebody on the other end of the phone can't.

 

[tony_mac]

Distraction from passengers is a contributing factor in about 5 times more accidents than use of mobile phones is.

I think it's generally quite easy to make a personal mobile phone call without being distracted (any more than by a passenger). I would have no problem saying 'please repeat that, I wasn't listening'.

However, I guess business calls are another matter. I fairly often see people on 'important' calls seemingly entirely unaware of what is happening around them (e.g., in a cafe, train or street).

 

[furnessvale]

Talking to passengers is totally different, they can see when it's not the right time to distract you but somebody on the other end of the phone can't.

On the other hand, when following other cars, I never cease to be amazed at the number of drivers who feel the need to LOOK at the person they are talking to, sometimes for quite an unhealthy length of time, before taking a quick glance back at the road.