My idea for Gatwick or Brighton to Heathrow services

[RobShipway]

Since Heathrow has now been chosen, I think that there should be a service from Brighton that calls at Gatwick, Kensington Olympia and then from there via the connection by North Pole Junction goes into Heathrow.

 

[swt_passenger]

Since Heathrow has now been chosen, I think that there should be a service from Brighton that calls at Gatwick, Kensington Olympia and then from there via the connection by North Pole Junction goes into Heathrow.

Why waste useful BML capacity on that when you will be able to change at Farringdon? Please explain which Brighton to London services you're going to pull to make room.

 

[RobShipway]

Why waste useful BML capacity on that when you will be able to change at Farringdon? Please explain which Brighton to London services you're going to pull to make room.

Then you could also ask the same question with connecting any Heathrow trains to SWT lines, as to which trains would you be cutting?

The purpose of my idea and the train need not start from Brighton, it could in fact start from Gatwick, but I would have it replace one of the GWR trains as far as Redhill, but have it go on the BML and replace an East Croydon - Watford Junction train service to the point of Kensington Olympia.

The GWR trains I would cutback to Redhill, with none going to Gatwick so that people change either at Redhill for Gatwick or when the connection on the Reading side into Heathrow has been completed, then they can change at Heathrow for a train to Gatwick.

The Western route study already includes a likely Western Rail link service to Basingstoke (or further) via Reading, as well as the more obvious GW destinations. I don't think the Southwestern possibility is any less likely than the others, in the way it is written. Direct Southern access to somewhere like Woking or Guildford via the Staines area doesn't cause the same issues the original Airtrack scheme had, which were mostly to do with the routes towards Waterloo. A west facing bay at Staines would tick a lot of boxes without running towards Waterloo.

But you would need to be cutting existing SWT trains to have the capacity to be able to do this change, so as per my question above which trains would you cut to enable this?

 

[swt_passenger]

Then you could also ask the same question with connecting any Heathrow trains to SWT lines, as to which trains would you be cutting?

The SWML beyond Basingstoke doesn't have anything like the capacity constraints of the Brighton Line and the Gatwick Airport.

If Network Rail are considering such a SWML service, and have indeed mentioned it in a couple of route studies, surely that gives it a bit more credence than your own random musings?

 

[BananaRepublic]

Since Heathrow has now been chosen, I think that there should be a service from Brighton that calls at Gatwick, Kensington Olympia and then from there via the connection by North Pole Junction goes into Heathrow.

The connection at North Pole Junction was cut some time ago.
As far as I can see, there's no direct link from the northbound West London Line to the GWML, unless you route via Willesden Jct.

 

[swt_passenger]

The connection at North Pole Junction was cut some time ago.
As far as I can see, there's no direct link from the northbound West London Line to the GWML, unless you route via Willesden Jct.

I wasn't sure about that, so didn't mention it earlier, but even if there were still a connection it wouldn't be grade separated so up direction trains would eb a huge conflict. The WLL runs at max capacity just to deal with TfL's present and immediate future aspirations, so I just don't see a Heathrow service fitting in anyway on the WLL. Lastly, it presumably couldn't be an express on Southern lines for the same reason the existing Croydon to Milton Keynes services were exiled to the slow lines a few years ago.

 

[RobShipway]

I wasn't sure about that, so didn't mention it earlier, but even if there were still a connection it wouldn't be grade separated so up direction trains would eb a huge conflict. The WLL runs at max capacity just to deal with TfL's present and immediate future aspirations, so I just don't see a Heathrow service fitting in anyway on the WLL. Lastly, it presumably couldn't be an express on Southern lines for the same reason the existing Croydon to Milton Keynes services were exiled to the slow lines a few years ago.

There needs to be some connectivity by train other than changing at Farringdon between Heathrow and Gatwick, that way, the coaches between Gatwick and Heathrow can be reduced. Otherwise you are cutting off those that live in West Sussex, East Sussex and Kent from using Heathrow by forcing them to have to go into London to get to the airport or use coach/taxi service instead.

The only other alternative, is that a second runway gets built at Gatwick anyway.

 

[MarkyT]

There needs to be some connectivity by train other than changing at Farringdon between Heathrow and Gatwick, that way, the coaches between Gatwick and Heathrow can be reduced. Otherwise you are cutting off those that live in West Sussex, East Sussex and Kent from using Heathrow by forcing them to have to go into London to get to the airport or use coach/taxi service instead.

Going via Farringdon will be fairly fast and frequent, but will be particularly crowded on the trains and at the interchange, especially at peak times. An alternative might be to extend the Croydon - Milton Keynes service to start at Gatwick and reroute it in the Willesden area to call at the new Old Oak hub, where a cross-platform interchange with Crossrail could be achieved using the suggested Crossrail to WCML link and an additional link from the WLL to the 'relief' side of the station. That would also have the effect of providing a convenient interchange from HS2 to Gatwick and from HS2 and GWML to South London and Croydon area.

 

[coppercapped]

There needs to be some connectivity by train other than changing at Farringdon between Heathrow and Gatwick, that way, the coaches between Gatwick and Heathrow can be reduced. Otherwise you are cutting off those that live in West Sussex, East Sussex and Kent from using Heathrow by forcing them to have to go into London to get to the airport or use coach/taxi service instead.

The only other alternative, is that a second runway gets built at Gatwick anyway.

Are you suggesting that there is a requirement for a sufficiently large number of air passengers changing flights between Heathrow and Gatwick to warrant a train service?

If so, you will be sorely disappointed.

There might be an argument for some sort of link to enable passengers originating from Sussex or Kent (or any other part of the country within its catchment area) to reach Heathrow more easily - but passengers for air flights are widely dispersed so collecting enough together to make it worthwhile running a train just for them would be difficult.

 

[RobShipway]

Going via Farringdon will be fairly fast and frequent, but will be particularly crowded on the trains and at the interchange, especially at peak times. An alternative might be to extend the Croydon - Milton Keynes service to start at Gatwick and reroute it in the Willesden area to call at the new Old Oak hub, where a cross-platform interchange with Crossrail could be achieved using the suggested Crossrail to WCML link and an additional link from the WLL to the 'relief' side of the station. That would also have the effect of providing a convenient interchange from HS2 to Gatwick and from HS2 and GWML to South London and Croydon area.

That is what I was what I was suggesting earlier, but made the mistake of saying North Pole rather than the WLL.

However, others have said that there is not the capacity on the BML. But I do not see the capacity being there, if you make a connection from Heathrow to the SWML either.

What should happen if capacity is available is what Mark has suggested above for the BML to Heathrow routing, but also do the routing from Heathrow to the SWML.