Services where 1st Class should be there but isn't.

[anti-pacer]

I know we all have differing views on First Class but which services do think should have it, but haven't?

Personally I think Liverpool-Norwich, Manchester-North/South Wales, North Wales-Birmingham/Cardiff trains should offer it.

What are your thoughts?

 

[185143]

Controversial opinion time:HS1

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[roversfan2001]

Cumbrian Coast perhaps? Particularly the services that run from Preston or Lancaster.

 

[AM9]

Controversial opinion time:HS1

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

OK, I'll bite, why HS2 (assuming you mean the 395s)?

 

[AlterEgo]

Cumbrian Coast perhaps? Particularly the services that run from Preston or Lancaster.

What market would that serve? Bonkers.

 

[Clip]

OK, I'll bite, why HS2 (assuming you mean the 395s)?

I know there would be a few people who would pay it should it be on the trains and offered a little bit extra.

Though im sure you mean HS1 not 2 which hasnt been built yet

 

[Clansman]

Lots in my opinion,

>West Highland Line
>Far North Line
>Inverness to Aberdeen - receiving in 2017
>Ayr to North Berwick
>Glasgow to Stranraer/Carlisle/Newcastle
>Liverpool to Norwich
>York to Blackpool North
>Manchester/Birmingham to Wales
>HS1
>Penzance to Cardiff
>Carlisle to Leeds

let the quoting game comence

 

[roversfan2001]

What market would that serve? Bonkers.

I'm not suggesting an all-out Pullman service, just a coach or two at the rear of the loco hauled services. Free Wi-Fi and complimentary food and drink (similar to Weekend First on Virgin West Coast).

 

[PHILIPE]

I don't think there would be enough call for 1st Class on Regional services worked by DMUs/EMUs to warrant it.. Business is usually between large cities on Fast trains. and fitting first class accomodation would only take up valuable space where Second Class accomodation woild be provided.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Far North Line I don't get - the trains have First Class, they are rarely full, and rich American tourists would pay for it. Why on earth do they not sell the tickets and rake in what is genuinely money for old rope on a line where money is sorely needed and it would disadvantage nobody?

 

[thenorthern]

As people have said Liverpool to Norwich.

Also I think some of the long distance Northern services such as Leeds to Carlisle and Blackpool to York.

 

[Bantamzen]

As people have said Liverpool to Norwich.

Also I think some of the long distance Northern services such as Leeds to Carlisle and Blackpool to York.

I was just going to suggest the S&C. After all, it is listed as potential route from West / South Yorks to Glasgow and beyond, and would bring in some useful extra revenue (once the block is fully cleared of course).

 

[Intercity 225]

As many have already mentioned - Liverpool to Norwich.

I'd also throw in Nottingham to Leeds via Sheffield as worthy.

 

[ScotTrains]

The Far North Line I don't get - the trains have First Class, they are rarely full, and rich American tourists would pay for it. Why on earth do they not sell the tickets and rake in what is genuinely money for old rope on a line where money is sorely needed and it would disadvantage nobody?

I agree. Though I don't think it should be too much. Many people would happily pay a little more for the slightly added comfort, power socket, tea and coffee etc on this long journey. I've always travelled in the first class section on this route and I know many others do too.

I also think all scenic lines should have at least a small first class section. Scenic lines attract people/tourists who appreciate travelling. These people are more likely to want to travel with the added comfort of first class and will pay more to do so.

 

[Clansman]

The Far North Line I don't get - the trains have First Class, they are rarely full, and rich American tourists would pay for it. Why on earth do they not sell the tickets and rake in what is genuinely money for old rope on a line where money is sorely needed and it would disadvantage nobody?

I agree. Though I don't think it should be too much. Many people would happily pay a little more for the slightly added comfort, power socket, tea and coffee etc on this long journey. I've always travelled in the first class section on this route and I know many others do too.

I also think all scenic lines should have at least a small first class section. Scenic lines attract people/tourists who appreciate travelling. These people are more likely to want to travel with the added comfort of first class and will pay more to do so.

I'm guilty of sitting in the area as well on most trips on the Inverness units, however I don't really see any benefit comfort wise. Albeit you get a lamp, curtains and a plug (which is already being put in Standard class on refurbs) but at the end of the day you're getting less table space and the same dismal legroom. Advantage of using it is that everyone thinks its "first class" and avoids using it thus you get the place to yourself.

As much as I dislike it, I think that there's nothing Scotrail marketing them as first class. They already do this on Inverness/Aberdeen/Edinburgh/Glasgow services they operate, so why not the Far North? It's a strange one, but there's always folk willing to splash out on "first class" even if it is as dismal as it is.

I agree, I think there should be a first class section on such services, but I think that it should offer a bit more than what it already does on scenic services - more specifically the 158s. Look at the "English 8" units up here, 2 of them have first class sections (2+1 formation) formerly of SWT, of which a similar sized first class, albeit with improvements (such as new seats, window alignment etc) would be adequate for the route. Although that wouldn't be without the downside problems though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be nice if it were a better First Class, but it's a start - free money for ScotRail, and the trains are not full so nobody loses. I totally don't get why it isn't used as such.

 

[matt_world2004]

I dont know if this would count or not, but I would have thought there would have been a huge market for premium steam services between Kings Cross and Watford to appeal to the harry potter tourist market. The money you could charge would be huge especially as you dont get much change out of £50 for a ****ty golden tours coach that goes between baker street and watford junction for the same thing.

 

[DarloRich]

I dont know if this would count or not, but I would have thought there would have been a huge market for premium steam services between Kings Cross and Watford to appeal to the harry potter tourist market. The money you could charge would be huge especially as you dont get much change out of £50 for a ****ty golden tours coach that goes between baker street and watford junction for the same thing.

the reversal onto the North London incline will be fun! Also would you run via Primrose Hill or Hampstead?

 

[swt_passenger]

Portsmouth to Cardiff?

Oddly enough when I investigated the GWR only "over 60s fares" the other day, they were offering a First Class Fareham to Bristol T M, despite their trains not having it...

Bit of an odd route all round for fares, as the regular SWT stoppers that overlap from Portsmouth to Salisbury do have First, and arguably more spacious rolling stock as well...

 

[backontrack]

Lots in my opinion,

>Far North Line


let the quoting game comence

No way! I like the declassified area

(besides, they have the new tourist trains now - I don't fancy putting FC on those)

 

[All Line Rover]

I think domestic HS1 services could do with a quiet coach, but first class accommodation seems unnecessary. The standard class accommodation is already of a high standard. First class accommodation would be unlikely to offer anything other than a guaranteed seat (which, on the fastest domestic rail service in the UK, isn't perhaps a particularly important consideration).

 

[northwichcat]

A lot of people suggest long services where FC is available but do we know that there are going to be passengers willing to pay for an upgrade on all long distance services?

Would it be more beneficial to have FC on some local connecting services in more affluent areas? For instance, having FC on local trains serving Harrogate might increase the number of business people using their local station, opposed to driving to an alternative station where they can catch an Intercity train with FC.

 

[Bishopstone]

Portsmouth to Cardiff?

I was about to suggest the Brighton-Malvern trains, on the same axis. Perhaps this might happen when the Thames Valley Turbos move over, if that's still the plan.

If reintroduced, I suspect there would be a market for First Class on Chiltern, but it won't happen.

In general, our trains are so busy that carving-out first class sections is politically unacceptable, and arguably ethically so, too. I think first class will only be seen on new routes when accompanied by significant extra Standard capacity via new stock, including 'new' secondhand stock in some cases.

 

[Intercity 225]

I'm guilty of sitting in the area as well on most trips on the Inverness units, however I don't really see any benefit comfort wise. Albeit you get a lamp, curtains and a plug (which is already being put in Standard class on refurbs) but at the end of the day you're getting less table space and the same dismal legroom.

I'm intrigued by this, could you explain why you get less table space in First Class than in Standard please? Is it something specific about the Scotrail 158s?

 

[gsnedders]

I'm intrigued by this, could you explain why you get less table space in First Class than in Standard please? Is it something specific about the Scotrail 158s?

The tables are the same size (if I'm not mistaken), but you have a fairly sizeable lamp fixed on it, taking away space.

 

[Clansman]

The tables are the same size (if I'm not mistaken), but you have a fairly sizeable lamp fixed on it, taking away space.

Ye, the seats, tables and legroom is all the same in first and standard class. The only difference space wise from first and standard on Scotrail 158s is that the airline seats have more legroom.

I'm intrigued by this, could you explain why you get less table space in First Class than in Standard please? Is it something specific about the Scotrail 158s?

Indeed, it's something which solely affects Scotrail 158s, more specifically the Inverness based units. The reading lamp sits a couple of centimetres out from the window onto the table, thus compromising around 1/3 of the (very little) table space for window seats as opposed to standard where there is no lamp. It is impossible to open a newspaper, laptop etc at the table on any of the window seats because of this. So technically speaking by sitting in first class at a table, you are actually getting far less table space than you would in standard. The disappointment on a first class passenger's face when a 158 turns up on an Intercity service instead of a 170 is all too real.

See attached for comparisons, then you'll see

 

[Bevan Price]

Lots in my opinion,

>West Highland Line
>Far North Line
>Inverness to Aberdeen - receiving in 2017
>Ayr to North Berwick
>Glasgow to Stranraer/Carlisle/Newcastle
>Liverpool to Norwich
>York to Blackpool North
>Manchester/Birmingham to Wales
>HS1
>Penzance to Cardiff
>Carlisle to Leeds

let the quoting game comence

And where are you going to find & finance the extra dmus to provide first class seating ? Or do you think that even more standard class passengers should be forced to stand in what are often already overcrowded 2 & 3 coach units ?? Convert 153s to 1st Class if/when they become surplus ??

 

[hexagon789]

Inverness to Aberdeen trains do convey First Class currently, though it's usually of the inferior 158 variety

 

[Clansman]

Inverness to Aberdeen trains do convey First Class currently, though it's usually of the inferior 158 variety ��

Unfortunatley

I've had better journeys on that route on the Sleeper Lounge Car sofa

And where are you going to find & finance the extra dmus to provide first class seating ? Or do you think that even more standard class passengers should be forced to stand in what are often already overcrowded 2 & 3 coach units ?? Convert 153s to 1st Class when if/when they become surplus ??

Bugger knows lol. I was simply answering the OP question, rather than put forwarding a serious proposal - otherwise I'd start my own thread.

Never the less I'll attempt to answer on the spot.

Take a section of around 3 rows of seats nearest the vestibule/cab end. Add additional hand rails at the dividing point. Place a neatly folded fabric sheet over the top of each seat with "First Class" written on each. Voilà

Seems to work for most commuter TOCs out there

(sarcasm)

 

[Intercity 225]

Ye, the seats, tables and legroom is all the same in first and standard class. The only difference space wise from first and standard on Scotrail 158s is that the airline seats have more legroom.



Indeed, it's something which solely affects Scotrail 158s, more specifically the Inverness based units. The reading lamp sits a couple of centimetres out from the window onto the table, thus compromising around 1/3 of the (very little) table space for window seats as opposed to standard where there is no lamp. It is impossible to open a newspaper, laptop etc at the table on any of the window seats because of this. So technically speaking by sitting in first class at a table, you are actually getting far less table space than you would in standard. The disappointment on a first class passenger's face when a 158 turns up on an Intercity service instead of a 170 is all too real.

See attached for comparisons, then you'll see

Thanks for the explanation & photos! If Standard is getting plug sockets as part of the refurbishment then there's really no point paying extra for FC on that particular stock. Especially considering the seats are identical. If I remember correctly FC isn't separated from Standard by a door on the Scotrail 158s either so it wouldn't necessarily be any more tranquil in there.