Possibly incorrect advice on VT's Facebook page?

[IanD]

Was it? My bad. I thought that reduced the connection to 1 minute (ie. 1307 departure as opposed to 1317). If the connection were still valid then it was a moot point.

Apologies.

I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just not clear what the 1306 time relates to. If it's the arrival at Leyland then depart at maybe 1307 would arrive in Preston at 1312 assuming no further delays so would still be less than the 8 minute minimum.

 

[yorkie]

I think the grey area comes from whether the passenger knew that the Leyland to Preston train was late enough to miss the train to Coventry.

As it was booked to make it, then there is no issue as far as I am concerned.

If it had not been booked to make the minimum interchange time, but staff had said it was OK, then that would create a grey area (perhaps less so if the staff giving the advice worked for the train company whose train the passenger was connecting onto). I think the misunderstanding arose from whether or not that scenario occurred, but we know it didn't.

 

[roversfan2001]

As it was booked to make it, then there is no issue as far as I am concerned.

If it had not been booked to make the minimum interchange time, but staff had said it was OK, then that would create a grey area (perhaps less so if the staff giving the advice worked for the train company whose train the passenger was connecting onto). I think the misunderstanding arose from whether or not that scenario occurred, but we know it didn't.

As said above, technically if the passenger knew that he would miss the connection at Preston, the connection is not covered by Delay Repay. We don't know this was the case however.

 

[bb21]

I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just not clear what the 1306 time relates to. If it's the arrival at Leyland then depart at maybe 1307 would arrive in Preston at 1312 assuming no further delays so would still be less than the 8 minute minimum.

Ah, I blame it on a long day and it's getting late. I see what you mean now and I hope at least we know what we are both talking about.

I can foresee a lot of disagreements on the forum although I do wonder how many people would be willing to stake their house on a test case. I know I wouldn't.

 

[sheff1]

I can foresee a lot of disagreements on the forum although I do wonder how many people would be willing to stake their house on a test case. I know I wouldn't.

I do not think I would need to stake my house.

As per the NRCoT extract quoted in #8, the issue is whether a previous connecting train was delayed. In this case it certainly was. There is nothing in the NRCoT regarding knowing about the delay prior to purchase of a ticket for the connecting train.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

It would be very hard to prove either way as it would rely on knowing exactly what delay minutes were being shown at Leyland at the exact moment the ticket was purchased and obviously what advice the passenger was given about the likelihood of the delay increasing or decreasing in the journey time to Preston.

In this case unless the passenger uses RTT or has access to similar information, then the word of station staff surely should be considered the most important as only they would otherwise know this information.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As said above, technically if the passenger knew that he would miss the connection at Preston, the connection is not covered by Delay Repay. We don't know this was the case however.

Though Delay Repay has little to do with whether a ticket should be honoured or not.

 

[roversfan2001]

Though Delay Repay has little to do with whether a ticket should be honoured or not.

I appreciate that Delay Repay was not the correct term to use, it's whether the Advance ticket should have been honoured...Doh!

 

[bb21]

I do not think I would need to stake my house.

As per the NRCoT extract quoted in #8, the issue is whether a previous connecting train was delayed. In this case it certainly was. There is nothing in the NRCoT regarding knowing about the delay prior to purchase of a ticket for the connecting train.

Not if you did not enter into a contract for the whole journey, and that was a pretty important prerequisite.

You may wish to read the Conditions of Travel literally and in isolation, I don't and I don't think you can, but I don't think we will be able to reach an agreement.

 

[furlong]

As said above, technically if the passenger knew that he would miss the connection at Preston, the connection is not covered by Delay Repay. We don't know this was the case however.

The passenger was locked into the schedule when purchasing the Advance - the delay was not known then - and was entitled to rely on the schedule for a local service connecting into it IMHO: this is not a case where the provision to avoid abuse of Delay Repay for known delays should be applied.

 

[roversfan2001]

The passenger was locked into the schedule when purchasing the Advance - the delay was not known then - and was entitled to rely on the schedule for a local service connecting into it IMHO: this is not a case where the provision to avoid abuse of Delay Repay for known delays should be applied.

As stated in an earlier post, I was wrong on the delay repay matter and meant whether the passenger should have been carried on the next VT service to Coventry on his Advance or not.

 

[sheff1]

but I don't think we will be able to reach an agreement.

I don't think we will. But if similar ever happens to me, I will let you know if I needed to stake my house to get the matter resolved to my satisfaction .

 

[bb21]

I don't think we will. But if similar ever happens to me, I will let you know if I needed to stake my house to get the matter resolved to my satisfaction .

I think I know what the answer would be, as I would make a similar decision on practical grounds if I ever get escalated complaints of this nature. Customer care is often very different to what is strictly right or wrong.

No, you wouldn't need to stake your house on it should it happen to you.

 

[clough99]

Wow - we kicked off a discussion here !

I'm not certain whether 13:06 was the arrival or departure time at Leyland as I wasn't there. But the staff there assured him there would be plenty of time for the change. I didn't know about the 8 minute allowance and I don't think many people know about these allowance times.
If the Staff at Leyland had said the connection would not be possible we would have found another solution while we had time.

My wife has since had quite a conversation online with the Virgin team and apparently our complaint is not yet registered we have to wait for them to issue a "VT" number before they can do anything. So even though we have entered a complaint and they recognise they have put a student out of pocket they wont do anything until they raise this number - this seems to take days poor poor customer service
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The claim of the ticket being "torn up" was made by yourself on Virgin's facebook page, so you really need to be careful with what allegations are made. Something like that instantly rang alarm bells in my head as virtually no railway staff would do that.

I have put a correction on Facebook for that - this was how initially things got reported in the heat of the moment .

 

[bb21]

Wow - we kicked off a discussion here !

There is a reason we exist and this section is thriving.

Unfortunately with many things in railway ticketing, it is often not quite as black and white as we would like them to be. Of course in the vast majority of these cases, discretion is exercised and a pragmatic approach is taken, however when we drill down to the technicalities, it is not always that simple.

My wife has since had quite a conversation online with the Virgin team and apparently our complaint is not yet registered we have to wait for them to issue a "VT" number before they can do anything. So even though we have entered a complaint and they recognise they have put a student out of pocket they wont do anything until they raise this number - this seems to take days poor poor customer service

That is quite understandable. Without a case being opened and a reference assigned in the database, they wouldn't be able to track its progress.

It's pretty irritating in your case, for sure, but that's just one of life's little annoyances.

I have put a correction on Facebook for that - this was how initially things got reported in the heat of the moment .

Sure. Fair enough.

I only pointed it out to make sure that you are certain about the story you are told. No reason for me to accuse anyone of lying but of course you only have a second-hand account of the matter and sometimes things get lost in translation. I wouldn't want your complaint to fail due to a silly inconsistency like that.

 

[janb]

As it was booked to make it, then there is no issue as far as I am concerned.

Absolutely. Can't believe anybody is in any doubt. If you turn up in time for the timetabled connection then the customer has done their part regardless of delay/cancellation or whether they already hold a ticket for that leg or not. Working at a smaller station that feeds into a main line this happens a lot, advice is always,
a) catch the train, you probably miss the booked connection, you'll have to travel on the next X service by Y TOC
or
b) maybe if you get yourself a taxi/lift you might make the original train
or perhaps on occasion
c) if its an airport journey, I can ring the TOC and see if they will get taxi to Z