Why don't London Midland serve Manchester?

[Greybeard33]

Where are these half empty XC services?

You said that XC needs longer trains, which it undoubtedly does. But if the XC Manchester to Bournemouth and Manchester to Bristol trains were made long enough to provide all the required capacity between Manchester and Birmingham, I believe they would become half empty south of Birmingham.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You said that XC needs longer trains, which it undoubtedly does. But if the XC Manchester to Bournemouth and Manchester to Bristol trains were made long enough to provide all the required capacity between Manchester and Birmingham, I believe they would become half empty south of Birmingham.

From observation of XC services generally I don't agree - if, say, all XC trains were 8-car, I think that would be a good match to required capacity throughout the network.

With Voyagers there is also the option to portion-work - if 9-car is justified between Manchester and Birmingham but 5-car beyond, run that.

 

[bramling]

London Midland would be a great alternative to Virgin on the Manchester to London route. Even if it took an hour more, if fares were half the price (£40-50 off peak return rather than £80 plus) it'd attract a significant amount of demand

Fine as long as it's resourced adequately.

The trouble with London Midland is they seem to have gone for the long-distance market without really providing adequate capacity. Okay so those getting the bargain basement fares can't really complain, but this is heavily to the detriment of passengers from intermediate stations who have no alternative, and find their sole services are constantly heavily overcrowded.

Chiltern is no better at times, although to be fair they have at least made some investment in extra trains and route enhancements.

 

[jfollows]

The difference between the Birmingham-Manchester and Birmingham-Liverpool services is that many of the "Liverpool" passengers change at Crewe for other routes.

Agreed, however I use the service Birmingham-Crewe (for Wilmslow) and Crewe-Liverpool (from Wilmslow) and both seem busy.
Vastly preferable getting on the service at platform 4C in plenty of time from Birmingham, compared to waiting for the XC service, unsure of getting a seat, and changing at Stockport.

For me it's a good service, reliable, and I don't miss the lack of onboard catering.

Oh yes, and splitting tickets at Stafford gives me more permitted routes from Birmingham (Lichfield and Tamworth if I want) and First Class open return cheaper than Standard Class through ticket before 09:30.

 

[Greybeard33]

From observation of XC services generally I don't agree - if, say, all XC trains were 8-car, I think that would be a good match to required capacity throughout the network.

With Voyagers there is also the option to portion-work - if 9-car is justified between Manchester and Birmingham but 5-car beyond, run that.

But at the expense of more heavy, thirsty, noisy Voyager carriages running under the wires between Manchester and Birmingham, and more diesel fumes in New Street (where these services have a dwell of up to 9 minutes). Bi-mode stock would be better for these routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But at the expense of more heavy, thirsty, noisy Voyager carriages running under the wires between Manchester and Birmingham, and more diesel fumes in New Street (where these services have a dwell of up to 9 minutes). Bi-mode stock would be better for these routes.

A fleet of 7 or 8-car bi mode IEP would be perfect for XC. But who is paying?


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[Greybeard33]

A fleet of 7 or 8-car bi mode IEP would be perfect for XC. But who is paying?[/quotes]

Who would pay for the replacement stock that XC would need to enable them to transfer more Voyagers on to the Manchester services as you suggested?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Who would pay for the replacement stock that XC would need to enable them to transfer more Voyagers on to the Manchester services as you suggested?

Who would pay for more 350s for LM to use? It's all the same issue, really. There are none spare to just move onto that service.

Another option if you're wanting to use existing used EMUs is to transfer some to XC and remove some of the services across New St.

LM's service at the peripheries is terrible anyway - they really don't care about it. I'd actually take Liverpool-Brum off them and give it to Northern, TBH.

 

[Greybeard33]

Who would pay for more 350s for LM to use? It's all the same issue, really. There are none spare to just move onto that service.

Another option if you're wanting to use existing used EMUs is to transfer some to XC and remove some of the services across New St.

LM's service at the peripheries is terrible anyway - they really don't care about it. I'd actually take Liverpool-Brum off them and give it to Northern, TBH.

When I bumped this previously-dormant thread, with post #85, it was in the context of the new West Midlands ITT. The new franchise starts in October 2017 and any new services would probably start at least a year after that. There should be plenty of used EMUs available by then and hopefully the new franchisee will be an improvement on the incumbent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose "existing EMUs" could be a way to do it. You could extend the Manchester-Stoke service to Birmingham using spare 8-car 319s or something, reseated to an InterCity layout (if Merseyrail can do it with 50x... )

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I suppose "existing EMUs" could be a way to do it. You could extend the Manchester-Stoke service to Birmingham using spare 8-car 319s or something, reseated to an InterCity layout (if Merseyrail can do it with 50x... )

Are the Class 319 units now based in the north deemed to be reliable enough to be the motive power on a Manchester-Stoke-Birmingham service?

 

[317 forever]

London Midland would be a great alternative to Virgin on the Manchester to London route. Even if it took an hour more, if fares were half the price (£40-50 off peak return rather than £80 plus) it'd attract a significant amount of demand

A compromise would be XC or Northern from Manchester to Stoke then LM. Even a flexible LM Saver would be cheaper than a Virgin Saver.