Class 455's on Brighton/Coastway services?

[Class455]

Hi guys,
While all my morning 455's from Caterham to Clapham Junction have been run on the BML down fast, I've been wondering, has a Class 455 ever ventured down to Brighton or the south coast in service before? And if you know, which units were they out of personal interest? The only time I know of one going down south is when 455 824 and two Class 456's had to work a Brighton service due to a shortage of available 377's. Have there been any other occurrences of a 455 being sent down south?
Thanks!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm pretty sure they did in NSE days, think there was a photo of an 8-car 455 formation at Brighton in an old magazine.

 

[swt class 450]

Hi guys,
While all my morning 455's from Caterham to Clapham Junction have been run on the BML down fast, I've been wondering, has a Class 455 ever ventured down to Brighton or the south coast in service before? And if you know, which units were they out of personal interest? The only time I know of one going down south is when 455 824 and two Class 456's had to work a Brighton service due to a shortage of available 377's. Have there been any other occurrences of a 455 being sent down south?
Thanks!

I dont know any exact dates and unit numbers but i know that 455s have occasionally been to Brighton a few times in recent years when 377s have been unavailable. They have also occasionally been used on Gatwick Express services a few times.

 

[physics34]

Think its only that once one was used on the GatEx

 

[antharro]

A 455 was used on a GatEx service? Bit of a downgrade! (Or an upgrade, depending on your opinion of the new rolling stock!)

 

[acg5324]

Quite a few 455s and 456s have worked to Brighton either as additional trains, Brighton Pride springs to mind. They have also covered for 377s and slam door units.

 

[D7666]

Think its only that once one was used on the GatEx

no

several times over several days during the 73s Battersea arcing problem

about half GEX was worked with 2EDL all diesel only with GLV on electric, the rest were EMU with at least one 455 out each day

during the Channel tunnel fire aftermath, ie that big first fire, 455s were also used on a waterloo to Gatwick infrequent shuttle where Eurostar put its passengers on to BA flights (well, first class eurostar passengers anyway, they had to put up with a 455 though)



--
Nick

 

[physics34]

no

several times over several days during the 73s Battersea arcing problem

about half GEX was worked with 2EDL all diesel only with GLV on electric, the rest were EMU with at least one 455 out each day

during the Channel tunnel fire aftermath, ie that big first fire, 455s were also used on a waterloo to Gatwick infrequent shuttle where Eurostar put its passengers on to BA flights (well, first class eurostar passengers anyway, they had to put up with a 455 though)



--
Nick

Thanks for that. I didnt realise that happened alot in the past. I only knew of one instance in the recent past.

 

[wfrank]

I seem to remember 12 cars of 455 units running between Brighton & Victoria when I cycled with thousands of others from London to Brighton a few years ago. Ideal for bicycles, but I was virtually unconscious after cycling 55 miles up & down hills so I may have been hallucinating!

 

[trainmania100]

They are very rare to Brighton, but they do come down. I have noticed them at Brighton twice over the last 6 years...

 

[Class455]

They are very rare to Brighton, but they do come down. I have noticed them at Brighton twice over the last 6 years...

Sorry to sound too pedantic but do you remember which units? I'm just interested to know.

I also wonder if the PIS's will still work if the 455's are put on Brighton services. As far as I'm aware, they're only compatible for certain destinations, but I think they have blinds for Brighton.

 

[Fincra5]

I saw a single 4 car unit, whilst I was standing at HHE, a couple of years ago stabding in on a semi-fast for a 377!

 

[Juniper Driver]

no

several times over several days during the 73s Battersea arcing problem

about half GEX was worked with 2EDL all diesel only with GLV on electric, the rest were EMU with at least one 455 out each day

during the Channel tunnel fire aftermath, ie that big first fire, 455s were also used on a waterloo to Gatwick infrequent shuttle where Eurostar put its passengers on to BA flights (well, first class eurostar passengers anyway, they had to put up with a 455 though)



--
Nick

How did they fo the Waterloo to Gatwick? What years was that? Don't remember it personally.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How did they fo the Waterloo to Gatwick? What years was that? Don't remember it personally.

I seem to vaguely recall it was via the Stewart's Lane Flyover, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, West Norwood, East Croydon... Not 100% sure though.

 

[D7666]

I seem to vaguely recall it was via the Stewart's Lane Flyover, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, West Norwood, East Croydon... Not 100% sure though.

TBH I'm unsure of route after Waterloo and the flyover, bt the above seems plausible; it was Waterloo International.

--
Nick

 

[30907]

TBH I'm unsure of route after Waterloo and the flyover, bt the above seems plausible; it was Waterloo International.

--
Nick

Only variant would be Selhurst for West Norwood, slightly faster if there's a path. VIC-GAT via HRH isn't uncommon.

 

[Class377/5]

Believe last time 455 was at Brighton was couple of years ago.

Even been a 455 + 456 + 456 to Brighton.

 

[317 forever]

As 455s are basically 3rd rail 317s, I am relieved that they do have quite a few years left in service. They would be good eventual replacements to 313s on Brighton Coastway services.

 

[physics34]

As 455s are basically 3rd rail 317s, I am relieved that they do have quite a few years left in service. They would be good eventual replacements to 313s on Brighton Coastway services.

their lease on Southern finishes at the same time as the 313s i believe.

 

[Class377/5]

As 455s are basically 3rd rail 317s, I am relieved that they do have quite a few years left in service. They would be good eventual replacements to 313s on Brighton Coastway services.

They are very bad replacements for the 313s which is based around 3/6 cars so many stations would never need 8 cars so you'd need to run four cars in peak. Even the they won't fit at all stations means it's a non starter. Both fleets need to be replaced.

 

[Phil.]

I seem to vaguely recall it was via the Stewart's Lane Flyover, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, West Norwood, East Croydon... Not 100% sure though.

That is correct

There was a little bit of a discussion at one stage due to one of the 455 sub classes not being allowed on/over the flyover - I believe it was the sets with the 508 trailer. Fortunately an eight car "normal" set was found. Doubly fortunately there was an ex Redhill Eurostar driver who still signed 455s. The train(s) were worked D.O.O. with a Eurostar Train Manager for passenger help purposes - they were a bit miffed when I told them that they couldn't use the P.A. system as the driver had the door control key in, not that anyone - except for me, Hah! - had a B.R. 21a.

Gatwicks.
Victoria Drivers refused to work on the first time a Boxing day service was run unless they got a day in lieu - which they would have - and paid triple time. That wasn't going to happen. So the entire Boxing day service was worked by Selhurst (in B.R. days it was known as the Turkey Farm 'cos they were all on the gobble) men on double time driving 8x455s D.O.O.

 

[Fincra5]

They are very bad replacements for the 313s which is based around 3/6 cars so many stations would never need 8 cars so you'd need to run four cars in peak. Even the they won't fit at all stations means it's a non starter. Both fleets need to be replaced.

There aren't many services that operate as a 6 Car 313. I can't think of a normal service that runs as a 6 car 313, only Football trains. Even then at Weekends 2x 377/3s are used for the Lewes Shuttles.

319s would be a better replacement for 313s on Coastways. They even have bogs and an extra coach!

 

[tsr]

The train(s) were worked D.O.O. with a Eurostar Train Manager for passenger help purposes - they were a bit miffed when I told them that they couldn't use the P.A. system as the driver had the door control key in, not that anyone - except for me, Hah! - had a B.R. 21a.

455s must have felt really rather primitive compared with a 373! Few bigger contrasts exist in SE England now, possibly excluding the odd 313 here and there. As for the PA system, I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that you can now use the PA and Cab-to-Cab regardless of what the DKS is doing... at least on the Southern ones.

 

[Phil.]

455s must have felt really rather primitive compared with a 373! Few bigger contrasts exist in SE England now, possibly excluding the odd 313 here and there. As for the PA system, I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that you can now use the PA and Cab-to-Cab regardless of what the DKS is doing... at least on the Southern ones.

Actually the one primitive thing that the 373s are lacking which the 455s - and every British MU has - are the door interlock lights. There aren't any external door obstruction lights on a 373 (some people think the little red lights are but they're toilet tank water level indicators) and the door indicator lights on the door panels are opposite in that they illuminate when the doors are unlocked/open and extinguish when the doors are locked. Interlock is proven when the control key is turned to position "2" and the local steps retract. No retraction, no interlock. There was also the necessity to dispatch a train with the local door open. Naturally this caused all sorts of perceived problems with the H&S desk jockeys but miraculously the trains were allowed to be in service without modification. One other thing - that eventually was rectified circa 2011/12 - was the lack of door locking at speed. It was perfectly possible to operate the emergency door release and open the door at 300kph. This would break the brake circuit and cause a full brake application but nevertheless it could be done as several illegals being exported found out as the train went at (relatively) low speed through parts of Britain.

 

[tsr]

Actually the one primitive thing that the 373s are lacking which the 455s - and every British MU has - are the door interlock lights. There aren't any external door obstruction lights on a 373 (some people think the little red lights are but they're toilet tank water level indicators) and the door indicator lights on the door panels are opposite in that they illuminate when the doors are unlocked/open and extinguish when the doors are locked. Interlock is proven when the control key is turned to position "2" and the local steps retract. No retraction, no interlock. There was also the necessity to dispatch a train with the local door open. Naturally this caused all sorts of perceived problems with the H&S desk jockeys but miraculously the trains were allowed to be in service without modification. One other thing - that eventually was rectified circa 2011/12 - was the lack of door locking at speed. It was perfectly possible to operate the emergency door release and open the door at 300kph. This would break the brake circuit and cause a full brake application but nevertheless it could be done as several illegals being exported found out as the train went at (relatively) low speed through parts of Britain.

As I've never worked with Eurostar stock I do find that very interesting, though it has to be pointed out that many Turbostars (ie. recent-ish British DMUs) don't have door interlock lights for conductors either, and the BIL lights cannot solely be used for checking interlock is achieved. As they have brake and buzzer interlock it is rarely a problem, except if the buzzer fails...

As for 455s, which are rather more relevant, at the time you mention I believe you could have dispatched all of those with the local door open, which would have been familiar had E* TMs actually dispatched them. It's not normally permitted now, and I'm not sure if the SWT ones still allow dispatch with a local door open anyway. Southern ones do but it's not officially allowed for conductors any more. Panel interlock lights are a bit dodgy and have been for a good few years but at least they do exist!

 

[Phil.]

As I've never worked with Eurostar stock I do find that very interesting, though it has to be pointed out that many Turbostars (ie. recent-ish British DMUs) don't have door interlock lights for conductors either, and the BIL lights cannot solely be used for checking interlock is achieved. As they have brake and buzzer interlock it is rarely a problem, except if the buzzer fails...

As for 455s, which are rather more relevant, at the time you mention I believe you could have dispatched all of those with the local door open, which would have been familiar had E* TMs actually dispatched them. It's not normally permitted now, and I'm not sure if the SWT ones still allow dispatch with a local door open anyway. Southern ones do but it's not officially allowed for conductors any more. Panel interlock lights are a bit dodgy and have been for a good few years but at least they do exist!

Dispatching 455s with the local door open was still the thing when I was training Guards on the South Western division ones that were first delivered to what was then the Central division of B.R. Quite a nice little job for a while. A morning playing with a pair and an EPB (for coupling purposes) at Stewpot Lane then an afternoon "borrowing" a service train from Queenstown Road to Clapham Junction via Richmond or Wimbledon (whichever came in first) whilst the SW Guard sat on the cushions. I remember having a deep and meaningful discussion with the Streatham Hill LDC secretary about how they were designed for and would become DOO. He assured me that, "it would never happen guv'nor, the union wouldn't allow it".
Oh dear.

 

[Class455]

their lease on Southern finishes at the same time as the 313s i believe.

I'd imagine that they will be replaced after 2021.

 

[JohnElliott]

They are very bad replacements for the 313s which is based around 3/6 cars so many stations would never need 8 cars so you'd need to run four cars in peak. Even the they won't fit at all stations means it's a non starter. Both fleets need to be replaced.

Is it straightforward to reduce a 455 to 3-car? If the ex-PEP trailers were removed from the 455/7s, for example.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is it straightforward to reduce a 455 to 3-car? If the ex-PEP trailers were removed from the 455/7s, for example.

SWT did trials of 3+3+4 455s a few years back, as a potential way of running 10 car formations. AFAICR from online discussions at the time they just removed the trailers and cracked on with it.

 

[Deepgreen]

I seem to remember 12 cars of 455 units running between Brighton & Victoria when I cycled with thousands of others from London to Brighton a few years ago. Ideal for bicycles, but I was virtually unconscious after cycling 55 miles up & down hills so I may have been hallucinating!

I wasn't aware that 455s were used for this - although that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I was under the impression that no special trains have run for the bike ride following the demise of EPB stock. On the occasions when I did the ride, 12 car formations of 4EPBs were used; 6 cars for bikes (one car for each destination station), and the other six for passengers. The seat cushions were removed from the bike-carrying carriages, leaving what were, effectively, racks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is it straightforward to reduce a 455 to 3-car? If the ex-PEP trailers were removed from the 455/7s, for example.

The trailers were ex-class 508, rather than PEP (the latter were the prototype units for the first-generation sliding door stocks).