The 'other' Class 800 - GSWR one

[70014IronDuke]

seeing the thread Class 800 reminded me - and I had to check if it was about the Irish Class 800s, because, by coincidence, I met a woman by the name of Meabh last night, and i mentioned that there is an Irish steam locomotive named [Queen] Meabh.

(No, I wasn't trying to pick her up - but should anyone be tempted to use the line, I don't think it impressed her )

But, having forgotten what little I knew about the class after seeing Meabh (or Maeve? - spellings seem to vary) in Belfast in 1970, I did look up the class on Wikipedia,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSR_Class_800

to discover what I thought I knew was actually incorrect. (I thought the Queens had been used on Dublin-Belfast trains when, in fact, they were limited to Dublin - Cork.)

Wikipedia is helpful, but not terribly informative on what was arguably Ireland's premier steam loco design. Indeed, though it notes that modifications included a 'decrease in tractive effort' - it fails to explain why - a massive reduction in boiler pressure from 225 psi to 180 psi (presumably to reduce maintenance costs on the boiler).

It also fails to explain how a loco built by the Irish Free State railway ended up preserved in N Ireland - but perhaps railway enthusiasm transcends borders and territorial disputes.

These were nice looking locomotives - a bit like a cross between an A3 and pre-blinkered Royal Scot Wiki speaks about their haulage prowess in terms of clminbing out of Cork sans banker, but nothing about top speed - I suspect it was limited to about 75 mph - anyone know?

'tis a pity in many ways the 5'-3" Irish gauge prohibited the design ever having the chance to run on UK metals and allow the Irish Queens to strut their stuff.

 

[D6975]

to discover what I thought I knew was actually incorrect. (I thought the Queens had been used on Dublin-Belfast trains when, in fact, they were limited to Dublin - Cork.)

I think they were for a short while used on a through Cork-Belfast service. This would mean their appearance at Amiens Street from Cork being replaced there for the forward journey up to Belfast. This may be the source of your belief of them being used up to Belfast.

 

[Monty]

I've also seen her in the folk museum in Cultra, a very impressive machine. Though to me she had always looked a bit top heavy. I always thought the bogie weeks on the front looks far too small as did the front buffers. But other than that a very attractive loco, though the LMS-NCC jeeps and the related W class were always my favourites.

 

[Cowley]

I've also seen her in the folk museum in Cultra, a very impressive machine. Though to me she had always looked a bit top heavy. I always thought the bogie weeks on the front looks far too small as did the front buffers. But other than that a very attractive loco, though the LMS-NCC jeeps and the related W class were always my favourites.

I've also been to Cultra and seen the loco. I agree with what you posted.

 

[hurricanemk1c]

The issue with the 800s was timing. They only had about 6 months to really prove themselves when new, before coal rationing took over in September 1939 (the Free State being reliant on imports from the UK, which suddenly required as much coal as possible). There's rumours of one doing Cork - Dublin in 2 hours, but I doubt that personally and no record has even surfaced confirming that. Another issue is their axle loading - at 21 tons, that's well over today's limit (18.66 tonnes), so were track destroyers (remember that Ireland had a history of building small locos and doubling up as required).

TBH I think they ended up being overpowered for what was required - hence the boiler pressure reduction

 

[70014IronDuke]

The issue with the 800s was timing. They only had about 6 months to really prove themselves when new, before coal rationing took over in September 1939 (the Free State being reliant on imports from the UK, which suddenly required as much coal as possible). There's rumours of one doing Cork - Dublin in 2 hours, but I doubt that personally and no record has even surfaced confirming that. Another issue is their axle loading - at 21 tons, that's well over today's limit (18.66 tonnes), so were track destroyers (remember that Ireland had a history of building small locos and doubling up as required).

TBH I think they ended up being overpowered for what was required - hence the boiler pressure reduction

Thanks to you and others for comments - I had thought this thread had failed to ignite any interest whatsoever.

The introduction in 1939 was obviously a 'bad thing' given the imminent coal shortage. But, given your comments about the axle load, one can't help thinking that for management-cum-engineers team, these Queens were a loco to far.

I can fully understand the desire to undertake their own locomotive development, but from a commercial (and operational) point of view it sounds as if they should have given Euston a ring and asked for a clutch of Jubilees off the shelf, fitted out for 5'-3" gauge.

(Still, would have loved to have tried out a run behind one in the summer of 39. Especially with a ten-minute late start. :roll: )