EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Johnuk123]

So in 4 months time the Pound has fallen 15 % in value. Tourist visiting the UK seem to be happy. If that means that the London Eye means 40 euro less to pay than it must be a pretty expensive thing. i shall not be for 1 person hopefully. Looking at the London Eye prices it must be almost a group of around 10 people.

The London Eye is the most overrated and expensive waste of money imaginable, London is known all over the world for highly expensive rip-offs and this is just one of them.

 

[Groningen]

You sit in that thing for 30 minutes. With another ticket an option for a second round. I rather take the Circle Line twice. Know that it once with an bombscare at 1 station so we did not stop there. For a city like London there are (hopefully) 1000 things better to do.

 

[Johnuk123]

London's skyline is pretty poor and boring to look at I imagine most foreign tourists are underwhelmed if they've been to other places that actually have a skyline that's interesting.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I never realised that Eire used sterling.

Sorry, how is that remotely relevant?

 

[radamfi]

Sorry, how is that remotely relevant?

I'm guessing that Tesco Ireland also sells those products.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm guessing that Tesco Ireland also sells those products.

If you refer to Eire, they use the Euro as their currency.

 

[radamfi]

If you refer to Eire, they use the Euro as their currency.

That's the point. Tesco in Ireland can sell those products without worrying about currency risk.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I'm guessing that Tesco Ireland also sells those products.

I'm sure they do, but as a subsidiary of the UK corporation it's not unlikely they'd also be party to the dispute.

The idea that Tesco Ireland was also not stocking is somehow proof this has nothing to do with the currency only strengthens the idea that Brexiters have their heads in the sand over the pound crashing, and are desperate to find alternative explanations.

 

[Howardh]

We've got a little geographical problem.
1. If the Irish Border remains open, as promised - the following won't apply but it makes a mockery of the "Controlled Borders" dogma where we seem to be asking Ireland to do our immigration policy for us - which will mean letting in any EU national that cares to enter Ireland (hop on the bus across our unmanned border meaning "controlled border - what controlled border?) but checking non-EU's as they enter Ireland. Which is what they do already.
2. This is the following, and will apply if the border becomes hard. There's a ROI virtual exclave within NI. I say virtual, there's no other way to get from the exclave to any other part of the ROI except by road through the UK, or a short swim.
Inside that exclave appear to be 20 or so dwellings - mainly farms, some isolated housing.
To get to their nearest small town Clones (which belongs to the ROI) - maybe to shop, take the kids to school, whatever - they may in future have to go through two borders out (customs and immigration) that is from ROI into UK and then from the UK into ROI and the same two back - and have no other option save for the swim or hiring a balloon.
Will those residents be given special status and waved through?
There are a few enclaves/exclaves withing Europe, Baarle Hertog is one but both BEL and NED are in Schengen/EU. There's an Italian piece in Switzerland - but both are in Schengen. There's also a piece of Germany inside Switzerland...ditto Schengen.
Here's the place;
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/54.1350/-7.2857

 

[TheKnightWho]

We've got a little geographical problem.
1. If the Irish Border remains open, as promised - the following won't apply but it makes a mockery of the "Controlled Borders" dogma where we seem to be asking Ireland to do our immigration policy for us - which will mean letting in any EU national that cares to enter Ireland (hop on the bus across our unmanned border meaning "controlled border - what controlled border?) but checking non-EU's as they enter Ireland. Which is what they do already.
2. This is the following, and will apply if the border becomes hard. There's a ROI virtual exclave within NI. I say virtual, there's no other way to get from the exclave to any other part of the ROI except by road through the UK, or a short swim.
Inside that exclave appear to be 20 or so dwellings - mainly farms, some isolated housing.
To get to their nearest small town Clones (which belongs to the ROI) - maybe to shop, take the kids to school, whatever - they may in future have to go through two borders out (customs and immigration) that is from ROI into UK and then from the UK into ROI and the same two back - and have no other option save for the swim or hiring a balloon.
Will those residents be given special status and waved through?
There are a few enclaves/exclaves withing Europe, Baarle Hertog is one but both BEL and NED are in Schengen/EU. There's an Italian piece in Switzerland - but both are in Schengen. There's also a piece of Germany inside Switzerland...ditto Schengen.
Here's the place;
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/54.1350/-7.2857

There are solutions to problems like these.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saatse_Boot

 

[Busaholic]

There are solutions to problems like these.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saatse_Boot

In the words of the old show tune 'Let's Call the Whole Thing Off' and pretend June 23rd was just a bad dream of the Bobby Ewing variety. Let's just admit we all got it wrong (some more than others, admittedly) and it's all been a ghastly mistake. No? Then we really do deserve to be in a world which is contemplating the ascendancy of President Trump. It's not even a natural disaster, just entirely self-inflicted. It's not only my guitar which gently weeps.

 

[miami]

Point Roberts if you're interested in exclaves. Or look at the India/Bangladesh border for the best ones - 2 or 3 nested exclaves.

Exclaves would be the least of our concern with a hard border between north and south though. Don't say you weren't warned though. Thank god we have got back control then! £350m a week on the NHS will come in very handy too.

 

[Howardh]

There are solutions to problems like these.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saatse_Boot

One of the more extreme cases was when a parcel of West Berlin found itself wholly inside the DDR, and separated from West Berlin by c.2-300m meaning they became walled in. However, the solution was a road bridge link direct to WB which couldn't be accessed from the DDR. The DDR "owned" the land below, FRD the road and air above.

Don't think the Irish case will be quite as extreme, but if we have a hard Brexit then some kind of solution will be needed otherwise a few people who didn't have the vote could well find their lives affected by no fault of their own.

 

[Senex]

One of the more extreme cases was when a parcel of West Berlin found itself wholly inside the DDR, and separated from West Berlin by c.2-300m meaning they became walled in. However, the solution was a road bridge link direct to WB which couldn't be accessed from the DDR. The DDR "owned" the land below, FRD the road and air above.

Ah Steinstücken. Did you ever travel on the bus that went down that road?

 

[J-2739]

Look who was a remainer after all:
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/boriss-secret-remain-article-revealed/ar-AAiZMry?ocid=spartanntp

The contents of a newspaper column written by Boris Johnson urging Britain to stay in the EU have been revealed.

According to a new book on the EU referendum campaign, he declared: "Britain is a great nation, a global force for good. It is surely a boon for the world and for Europe that she should be *intimately engaged in the EU."

His unpublished article for The Daily Telegraph was written two days before his shock announcement that he would campaign to leave.

He referred to warnings that Brexit could lead to an economic shock, Scottish independence and Russian aggression, according to All Out War, by Sunday Times political editor Tim Shipman.

The book also claims Mr Johnson "wanted to punch" Michael Gove after he tried to *apologise for knifing him on the morning of his leadership launch and that David Cameron would have made Mr John*son Defence Secretary if he had remained Prime Minister

The existence of Mr Johnson's Remain column, published in The Sunday Times, was known, but its contents - which contradict positions he has adopted since becoming Foreign Secretary, had remained secret.

He wrote it on 19 February, two days before shocking Mr Cameron by opting publicly for the "Leave" campaign.

He had already penned one Telegraph column arguing the case for "Out", then wrote the "Remain" article as a way of clarifying his thoughts, before composing a final article backing Brexit for publication.

"This is a market on our doorstep, ready for further exploitation by British firms," Mr Johnson wrote. "The membership fee seems rather small for all that access. Why are we so determined to turn our back on it?" he wrote.

He also warned that Brexit would cause an "economic shock" and could lead to the "break up" of the United Kingdom.

The disclosures about Mr Johnson come as a new opinion poll suggests 49% of voters want Theresa May to prioritise favourable trade deals with the EU against 39% who favour reducing immigration.

But according to ComRes in the Sunday Mirror and The Independent, asked about reducing immigration, 48% of older people are in favour but only 25% of younger people.

Mr Shipman's book challenges claims that Mr Johnson was motivated solely by his ambition to be Prime Minister.

It reveals that Ben Wallace, the MP running his leadership campaign, warned him that backing Brexit would damage his hopes of replacing Mr Cameron.

Being associated with Nigel Farage, George Galloway and older Eurosceptic Tories would mean he was campaigning with a "cast of clowns", Mr Wallace - now a Home Office minister - said in an email.

Both Mr Johnson and Mr Wallace expected at that stage that "Leave" would lose the referendum, but Mr Wallace added: "The upside is that if the 'outers' win, then you will be master of all."

Despite the latest opinion poll evidence, the Prime Minister will travel to Brussels on Thursday and explain what Britain wants from a new relation*ship with the EU, emphasising that she would like "close links" but has to put immigration control first.

She will seek to maximise the gains of Brexit by launching a trade mission to India next month to pave the way for a new free-trade deal. The Prime Minister will take a delegation of small and medium-sized businesses with her when she meets Narendra Modi, the Indian prime minister and opens a tech summit in Delhi on 6 November.

Ahead of her visit, she said: "As we leave the European Union we have the chance to forge a new global role for the UK - to look beyond our continent and towards the economic and diplomatic opportunities in the wider world."

But she faces a new challenge to reveal her plans for Brexit from an all-party move to force a Commons vote on the Government's Brexit plans.

Former party leaders Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband, plus leading Tory Nick Herbert and Brexiteer Stephen Phillips will table a motion for a backbench debate and a substantive vote to force the Government to publish an outline of its negotiation plan to be agreed by the Commons prior to negotiations.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Point Roberts if you're interested in exclaves. Or look at the India/Bangladesh border for the best ones - 2 or 3 nested exclaves.

Exclaves would be the least of our concern with a hard border between north and south though. Don't say you weren't warned though. Thank god we have got back control then! £350m a week on the NHS will come in very handy too.

Thankfully many of those have recently disappeared, with huge numbers of swaps between the two countries.

They were causing very serious problems for local residents, who were unable to have access to even basic infrastructure due to the catch 22 of needing a visa, obtaining of which required them to leave, which they were unable to do because there wasn't even a basic postal service due to no-one actually being able to get in either.

 

[Howardh]

Ah Steinstücken. Did you ever travel on the bus that went down that road?

If only. It was one of my "must-do" things, but the thoughts of using a barrier created by oppression to satisfy my travel desires was over-ruled by my conscience.

Much prefer enclaves and exclaves one can get in - and out of!

 

[miami]

Don't think the Irish case will be quite as extreme, but if we have a hard Brexit then some kind of solution will be needed otherwise a few people who didn't have the vote could well find their lives affected by no fault of their own.

There's a lot of people who didn't have the vote who are suffering, and will continue to suffer, because of the actions of the 27% of the country who voted leave.

 

[Groningen]

In 1986 i went to Steinstücken to enjoy this part of West Berlin.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There's a lot of people who didn't have the vote who are suffering, and will continue to suffer, because of the actions of the 27% of the country who voted leave.

Speaking as one of those who voted "Remain" and was never for a single moment swayed by any media coverage and the like, I do wonder how many of those 27% were loyal RMT union members, who on hearing that their union were suggesting "Leave" (unlike the vast majority of the trades union movement), followed the gospel according to Saint Cash and duly cast their votes accordingly in that direction.

 

[miami]

Speaking as one of those who voted "Remain" and was never for a single moment swayed by any media coverage and the like, I do wonder how many of those 27% were loyal RMT union members, who on hearing that their union were suggesting "Leave" (unlike the vast majority of the trades union movement), followed the gospel according to Saint Cash and duly cast their votes accordingly in that direction.

Wikipedia suggests 80,000 total members. Assuming they all voted "leave", that would be 0.5%.

 

[furnessvale]

I'm sure they do, but as a subsidiary of the UK corporation it's not unlikely they'd also be party to the dispute.

The idea that Tesco Ireland was also not stocking is somehow proof this has nothing to do with the currency only strengthens the idea that Brexiters have their heads in the sand over the pound crashing, and are desperate to find alternative explanations.

So you are totally unaware that Unilever also attempted to impose a 19% price rise on an Irish supermarket chain unrelated to Tesco?

 

[TheKnightWho]

So you are totally unaware that Unilever also attempted to impose a 19% price rise on an Irish supermarket chain unrelated to Tesco?

Did you actually read the rest of what I wrote?

I understand that you're desperate to blame anything but Brexit for price rises, but the economics speaks for itself.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Brexit will cause price rises as the pound tanks.

Unilever- a British company- were just using it as an excuse to price gouge in a part of the business they want rid of.

 

[AlterEgo]

Brexit will cause price rises as the pound tanks.

Unilever- a British company- were just using it as an excuse to price gouge in a part of the business they want rid of.

Agreed. And that's the long and short of it.

 

[furnessvale]

Did you actually read the rest of what I wrote?

I understand that you're desperate to blame anything but Brexit for price rises, but the economics speaks for itself.

And I am talking about price rises in a eurozone country.

However, if you are reassuring me that Brexit causes these as well, you have cheered me up no end!

 

[TheKnightWho]

And I am talking about price rises in a eurozone country.

However, if you are reassuring me that Brexit causes these as well, you have cheered me up no end!

Did you actually read my posts in the thread? It's fast becoming obvious you haven't.

 

[tony_mac]

As you would imagine in such negotiations, the sides aren't saying the same thing.
But, it gives the impression that Unilever prices were tied to sterling. (Note that the supermarkets in question also have sites on both sides of the border).

“There is a currency exchange mechanism in place which has negated the effect of the cost price increase, so there is no real increase in price in Ireland,” a spokeswoman said.

 

[TheKnightWho]

As you would imagine in such negotiations, the sides aren't saying the same thing.
But, it gives the impression that Unilever prices were tied to sterling. (Note that the supermarkets in question also have sites on both sides of the border).

“There is a currency exchange mechanism in place which has negated the effect of the cost price increase, so there is no real increase in price in Ireland,” a spokeswoman said.

I think it's no coincidence that the rise in price in sterling for the Irish market pretty much exactly equals the amount the pound has fallen.

Not that that will stop Brexiters arguing that it has nothing to do with Brexit because the price has also "increased" in Ireland.

 

[tony_mac]

I think it's no coincidence that the rise in price in sterling for the Irish market pretty much exactly equals the amount the pound has fallen.

Actually, I think it is a coincidence! It's a typical retailer's use of 'Up to x%....'. All reports have it as roughly 10% across the board, so about the same as proposed to Tesco.