Should OAPs and Disabled get free train travel?

[90019]

Did you save your deposit all by yourself, or did you get the money from inheritance or parents?

On my own.
Saved £7.5k over the past few years by moving money into savings accounts when I got paid each week, sold the second car I had at the time for £2k and sold a few other bits and pieces to get it up to £10k.

 

[fowler9]

On my own.
Saved £7.5k over the past few years by moving money into savings accounts when I got paid each week, sold the second car I had at the time for £2k and sold a few other bits and pieces to get it up to £10k.

Purely out of interest and if you don't mind asking, how much was the flat? (Apologies if you have already said).

 

[PeterC]

Yes, yes they do, as you can see by the long lines of twirlies in York and Middlesbrough waiting for the buses to the seaside on a nice summer day. Coastliner and Arriva carry hundreds of people on their buses, most of whom haven't paid. I've been the only one on the X93 to have bought a ticket before now.

Give people free travel and they will use it.

And give the French and German companies that run those services the opportunity to rip off councils by registering long distance routes as "local" services they will use it too.

 

[90019]

Purely out of interest and if you don't mind asking, how much was the flat? (Apologies if you have already said).

£135k.

It's a small one bedroom flat with a combined living room and kitchen, but it does the job and has just enough space for me and my other half if he moves up next year.
I'll look for something bigger at some point, but will probably look to buy a lockup before then.

 

[fowler9]

£135k.

It's a small one bedroom flat with a combined living room and kitchen, but it does the job and has just enough space for me and my other half if he moves up next year.
I'll look for something bigger at some point, but will probably look to buy a lockup before then.

Cheers mate. Just being nosey. Ha ha.

 

[Tetchytyke]

On my own.
Saved £7.5k over the past few years by moving money into savings accounts when I got paid each week, sold the second car I had at the time for £2k and sold a few other bits and pieces to get it up to £10k.

Ah, thanks for replying, I was being nosey as much as anything!

The complications come if you have kids or you have debts, not everyone has the disposable income to save, and with rents normally higher than mortgages it gets even harder. In England you have the affordability guff too. Although mortgages with a higher loan-to-value ratio seem to be available on the market again, so it should change.

 

[najaB]

Although mortgages with a higher loan-to-value ratio seem to be available on the market again, so it should change.

Which is good as I know a lot of people who feel that they will never be able to save a 40% deposit.

 

[The Ham]

Which is good as I know a lot of people who feel that they will never be able to save a 40% deposit.

You don't need a 40% deposit (although your payments will be higher) to buy your first home. Even in the fairly dark days of 2010 (about 2 years after the start of the banking crisis) first time buyers were able to get loans with a 15% deposit, even 10% deposit loans were available (for a fee).

Yes they weren't cheap as interest rates on those loans are about double what they are now on comparable loans, but they were there.

 

[CockneySparrow]

No, it will mean more overcrowding, they are bad enough on buses, also for the count I think they should even pay for the bus as well even if it is a minimal amount, the annoying thing is that they get on buses don't pay sit down forcing paying customers to stand

 

[bnm]

And give the French and German companies that run those services the opportunity to rip off councils by registering long distance routes as "local" services they will use it too.

So it's only the foreign owned bus companies that do that is it?

 

[najaB]

Yes they weren't cheap as interest rates on those loans are about double what they are now on comparable loans, but they were there.

From speaking with people trying to get a mortgage, while 85% or 90% LTV mortgages were officially available they weren't able to get them. Maybe they were unlucky, but they all said that 60-70% was all that they were offered.

 

[al78]

No, it will mean more overcrowding, they are bad enough on buses, also for the count I think they should even pay for the bus as well even if it is a minimal amount, the annoying thing is that they get on buses don't pay sit down forcing paying customers to stand

Well that is hard luck. Your bus ticket doesn't pay for a seat, it pays for you to be transported somewhere.

If they weren't travelling on buses, they may well be driving cars instead, contributing to the already congested roads, and delaying those oh-so-important people getting to work and having to pay the taxes to fund their pension. :roll:

 

[misterredmist]

.......no..........

 

[CockneySparrow]

Well that is hard luck. Your bus ticket doesn't pay for a seat, it pays for you to be transported somewhere.

If they weren't travelling on buses, they may well be driving cars instead, contributing to the already congested roads, and delaying those oh-so-important people getting to work and having to pay the taxes to fund their pension. :roll:

I know it doesn't guarantee a seat but when you have to stand knowing you paid and see others sitting that haven't just winds people up,

 

[HH]

They should be giving up their seat for OAPs anyway!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I know it doesn't guarantee a seat but when you have to stand knowing you paid and see others sitting that haven't just winds people up,

I agree with you, it winds me up on the bus and on the Metro when I'm standing because the thing is filled with people on their free passes. Of course I'd stand for an OAP who isn't well enough to stand, that's just good manners, but it does frustrate that I'm paying a fortune to travel and have to stand because of everyone on their free tickets.

It frustrates me even more knowing that the chances of me getting free nationwide travel when I get to retire are pretty much nil.

In many cases, I don't think people would be making the journeys if they had to pay for them. You see people ride two stops on the bus, I doubt they'd do that if it cost them a quid to do it.

The idea of having trains filled with leisure travellers only travelling because they can do so for free is ludicrous. Sunday afternoons already have some of the busiest trains in the whole week, filling them with OAPs on free tickets would be madness (and my fares would have to rise to pay for it).

 

[Llanigraham]

No, it will mean more overcrowding, they are bad enough on buses, also for the count I think they should even pay for the bus as well even if it is a minimal amount, the annoying thing is that they get on buses don't pay sit down forcing paying customers to stand

Doesn't seem to make them overcrowded around here.

Just remember you will be old one day!

 

[PeterC]

They should be giving up their seat for OAPs anyway!

The kids at our local schools do. It really goes against the grain as a perfectly fit man in my mix sixties to take a seat from a young woman.

Whatever some of the posters may think crowding isn't a general issue on buses. Apart from school times I seldom have a problem getting a seat.

 

[urbophile]

No, it will mean more overcrowding, they are bad enough on buses, also for the count I think they should even pay for the bus as well even if it is a minimal amount, the annoying thing is that they get on buses don't pay sit down forcing paying customers to stand

Hang on! We do pay (through taxes) and have paid all our lives. Perhaps we deserve a few perks when we get older.

 

[najaB]

Hang on! We do pay (through taxes) and have paid all our lives.

Taxes fund the Government's current account.

 

[urbophile]

In many cases, I don't think people would be making the journeys if they had to pay for them. You see people ride two stops on the bus, I doubt they'd do that if it cost them a quid to do it.

No, they'd either sit at home and get depressed (and unhealthier), or they would struggle to walk and maybe risk a heart attack, or they would get in their cars (if they had one) and possibly be a risk to other road users and certainly contribute to pollution and congestion.

Why do people have to be so mean and ungenerous?

(Anyway, here in Liverpool two stops' journey costs at least £2... that too is criminal but no point in compounding the offence for older people.)

But we are getting off the main topic which is free train travel. I don't think there is much of an argument for free long-distance travel, but local trains should be free on the same basis as buses. In some areas the train services are so sparse they wouldn't be much used; in others they provide a better service than the buses. But why offer free local travel on one mode and not on the other?

 

[whhistle]

Disabled - maybe. OAP - sorry if this is harsh, but why should I pay for their travel just because they've managed not to die?

On the flip side, why should someone who has a disability get free travel?
Remember, not everyone who is disabled is wheelchair bound. I would go as far as saying the majority of people who are disabled aren't wheelchair bound.
Plus, let's face it, a lot of disabled people already get lots of benefits anyway!

 

[najaB]

On the flip side, why should someone who has a disability get free travel?

Hence the 'maybe'. If it supports them being able to work, or reduces their need for other benefits then why not?

 

[90019]

No, they'd either sit at home and get depressed (and unhealthier), or they would struggle to walk and maybe risk a heart attack, or they would get in their cars (if they had one) and possibly be a risk to other road users and certainly contribute to pollution and congestion.

The first and third points in particular apply to lots of people, both young and old.
Should we give everyone free travel?

 

[ashworth]

It frustrates me even more knowing that the chances of me getting free nationwide travel when I get to retire are pretty much nil.

I know what you mean. I've only got 6 years to go until I should get my bus pass, but I have my doubts as to whether it will still be around in its current form even in that short time.
I've just reached 60 and although I have recently retired and get a reasonably good pension from work, I won't get my state pension until I am 66. The bus pass is now linked to the state pension age and therefore, although I am retired I am not eligible for it. Sometimes when I travel on my local the bus during the day midweek I feel that I am the only person paying.
I'm so pleased that the Senior Railcard is still available at 60. If only there was bus pass available that I could pay for to get reduced fares.
However, perhaps I shouldn't complain, but just be grateful that I am fortunate to be able to retire early with enough money to enjoy myself.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Why do people have to be so mean and ungenerous?

Many OAPs have more disposable income than I do, yet I have to pay sixty quid a month just to get to work. And I struggle to get a seat on the way home because the peak time Metros are full of OAPs coming home from the shops.

It's the same on a weekend. It's well over four quid on the Metro just for a return to town, and you get on the train and there's no seats because of all the twirlies who've paid nowt.

Not only is my council tax higher, and council services cut back, to pay for the ENCTS, my Metro and bus fares are higher because the ENCTS reimbursement rate isn't sufficient even after the tax rises and service cuts.

And not only that, my retirement age is two years later than the current OAPs' retirement age, and I fully expect it to be over 70 by the time I get to retire in 35-40 years time.

And not only that, but I'd say I've got more chance of winning the EuroMillions than having a free bus pass when I get to retire.

And now people are suggesting I fork out even more money to give people free nationwide leisure train travel too?

I'm not ungenerous, I don't mind discounted travel, but enough's enough. OAPs claiming "they worked for it all their lives" bloody well didn't, given that it only appeared ten years ago as an electoral bribe from Gordon Brown. The whole scheme is a mess, an unaffordable mess that I'm expected to stump up for.

 

[HH]

I'm 65, don't live in, but do work in London, am still working; I've just received an Essex bus pass.

TBH I don't need it and will hardly use it, there being very few buses where I live. I can see that people who live in London though are in a very different situation.

Having looked at the economics of bus companies though, be careful about wishing those free bus passes away - without them many bus routes would be removed; they're the only thing that makes them worth running!

 

[Tetchytyke]

be careful about wishing those free bus passes away - without them many bus routes would be removed; they're the only thing that makes them worth running!

But conversely, at least up here, many of the social routes into the housing estates have gone because all the PTE funding now gets spent on ENCTS.

ENCTS funding is supposed to only pay the bus company for the number of people who would have travelled had they had to pay.

 

[PeterC]

It's the same on a weekend. It's well over four quid on the Metro just for a return to town, and you get on the train and there's no seats because of all the twirlies who've paid nowt.

Train? Not on my bus pass.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

From speaking with people trying to get a mortgage, while 85% or 90% LTV mortgages were officially available they weren't able to get them. Maybe they were unlucky, but they all said that 60-70% was all that they were offered.

banks will happily give credit to those who do not need it ...