Prosecution/MG 11 - South West Trains

[hampton123]

So today I unfortunately got caught without a ticket.

I live in Hampton and work in Sunbury - I usually cycle but in this this morning whilst freezing on my bike and stuck behind the level crossing barriers I decided to jump on the two stops to work.

At the other end there were inspectors blocking the exit and I had to tell them I didnt have a ticket. On questioning they asked me whether I wouldve bought a ticket had they not been there and I nonchalantly shrugged and said no (I know this was very stupid).

So I was cautioned and asked a few questions (complied fully and the general tone of the conversation was quite light hearted).

After calling a few people I found that I've been passed onto the prosecution department - where she told me as I didnt have any previous offences in the last 5 years I should be offered an out of court settlement.

I don't need berating on how stupid I am, but has anyone been in a similar situation or have any details/advice on how to take it from here?

Needless to say I've very anxious as have read some horror stories on the internet about what can happen.

Thank you in advance

 

[Clip]

The best and only advice is to await the letter from the prosecutions department and then go from there.

 

[najaB]

I don't need berating on how stupid I am, but has anyone been in a similar situation or have any details/advice on how to take it from here?

Wait for their letter and reply as appropriate.

Needless to say I've very anxious as have read some horror stories on the internet about what can happen.

With respect to other forums, there is a lot of bad advice out there.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Wait for their letter and reply as appropriate.
With respect to other forums, there is a lot of bad advice out there.

And sometimes on here, unfortunately

Nothing wrong with the input from Clip and najaB on this, though.

 

[hampton123]

Thanks.

I don't mind paying a fine in the slightest, in fact I probably deserve it. Just as long as I don't end up with going to court and a criminal record then I'm fine

 

[furlong]

as I didnt have any previous offences in the last 5 years I should be offered an out of court settlement.

That means they'll expect you to pay the full fare for your journey plus all the company's costs involved in dealing with your case, so that the company is left in the same financial position as it would have been had you not behaved as you did.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

After calling a few people I found that I've been passed onto the prosecution department - where she told me as I didnt have any previous offences in the last 5 years I should be offered an out of court settlement.

I would add a note of caution into the interpretation of "should" in this sentence.
The Prosecutions Department deal with legal process, and it is worth being absolutely clear that there is no legal basis for assuring that a first-time offender is offered an OOC settlement, and any internal policy which suggests this will not be binding on an Investigating Officer's decisions.

I do agree that a resolution other than Prosecution is highly likely, but in this context, the phrase "should be offered" simply means "I expect that it is most probable that" you will be able to settle out-of-Court.

With that in mind, please do take any replies to the Company very seriously, and if you are asked to explain the circumstances, do not repeat the phrase "I should be offered an out of court settlement", but instead, after making a due apology and admission of what you have learned from the incident, it might be appropriate for you to suggest that you would be happy to assist the Company in recovering its costs in detecting fare evasion and in investigating your incident.

 

[hampton123]

With that in mind, please do take any replies to the Company very seriously, and if you are asked to explain the circumstances, do not repeat the phrase "I should be offered an out of court settlement", but instead, after making a due apology and admission of what you have learned from the incident, it might be appropriate for you to suggest that you would be happy to assist the Company in recovering its costs in detecting fare evasion and in investigating your incident.

Thanks Dave. Do you think itll be worth getting legal help if I am required to submit my version of events?

 

[najaB]

Thanks Dave. Do you think itll be worth getting legal help if I am required to submit my version of events?

No. At this point they will still be trying to determine what losses have occurred and what course of action they intend to take. Instructing a solicitor this early would just be a waste of money.

 

[hampton123]

Thanks najaB, just making sure I won't incriminate myself further. Would it be a good idea to get my response reviewed on here?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Thanks najaB, just making sure I won't incriminate myself further. Would it be a good idea to get my response reviewed on here?

I'm sure the knowledgeable people on here would be very happy to review your response but remember to take out personal information before you post.

 

[najaB]

Thanks najaB, just making sure I won't incriminate myself further. Would it be a good idea to get my response reviewed on here?

The general rule to avoiding incriminating yourself is to be honest, don't deny anything that they already know and don't volunteer any information that they don't.

However, based on the story you've posted here, there is little danger of you ending up in worse trouble than you're already in. The "Would you have bought a ticket if we weren't here." is all they need to successfully prosecute.

That said, if you haven't been in trouble before and engage positively with the prosecutions team, they are likely to let you go with either a warning (if you're lucky) or a small settlement (e.g. fare due + £75).

 

[hampton123]

Thanks. Is it in the TOC's interest at all to take you to court (other than financial gain which they could get out of court)?

 

[bb21]

Thanks. Is it in the TOC's interest at all to take you to court (other than financial gain which they could get out of court)?

Yes, but often not with first time offenders showing a good attitude.

 

[hampton123]

Thanks.

I was fully compliant with the inspector, honest, showed my driving licence. If it does go to court is it likely to end in a criminal record?

 

[Puffing Devil]

Thanks. Is it in the TOC's interest at all to take you to court (other than financial gain which they could get out of court)?

It's in the financial interest of the TOC not to take you to court. Going to court takes time and effort on their part. If you are found, or plead, guilty in court they will generally be awarded their costs which you will have to pay. You will also have to pay them the fare that you avoided. Any fines and surcharges imposed as a punishment go to the government, meaning that the TOC gets nothing for their efforts - other than the continuing deterrent of having a steady stream of fare avoiders appear in court.

Compare this with a settlement before court action. Any money you pay the TOC stays with the TOC. They lose the deterrent but gain some cash and you receive a salutary lesson.

Essays could be written on the rights and wrongs of this process - though I'll stop here.

 

[hampton123]

They lose the deterrent but gain some cash and you receive a salutary lesson.

Thanks for your advice.

I think me proverbially s****ing myself has taught me more than a life lesson

 

[Haywain]

Compare this with a settlement before court action. Any money you pay the TOC stays with the TOC. They lose the deterrent but gain some cash and you receive a salutary lesson.

The principle reason for paying more than the fare that would be due is that the TOC incurs costs whether they go to court or not. Some choose to believe that the amount of an out of court settlement is purely punitive, but this is an absurd assumption. If a case gets to that stage of even considering prosecution there have been staff involved and the provision of those staff and the facilities required to enable them to operate are not cheap.