Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

[XDM]

Better than you get out of a lot of that level of management, then. One asked me once, after reading my job title, "What does a Train Manager do then?"

There is too much railway manager bashing from a few regular posters on this site. Many,but not all,managers are the unsung heroes of the railway industry. They have held Southern together during the concerted momentum of the last few months to destroy it from the left. They have stepped in to guard services so ordinary vulnerable members of the public can make essential rail journeys during strike days. And a few have had to take subtle but aimed insults when doing that work. Re Sprinter's criticism quoted above of a manager. It's quite possible he or she was just trying to initiate a polite conversation at a reception. I hope the government will recognise managers' heroic dedication by giving awards to Mr Horton & some of his lower down team members. One senior manager has already been rewarded. They deserve it.

 

[Robertj21a]

There is too much railway manager bashing from a few regular posters on this site. Many,but not all,managers are the unsung heroes of the railway industry. They have held Southern together during the concerted momentum of the last few months to destroy it from the left. They have stepped in to guard services so ordinary vulnerable members of the public can make essential rail journeys during strike days. And a few have had to take subtle but aimed insults when doing that work. Re Sprinter's criticism quoted above of a manager. It's quite possible he or she was just trying to initiate a polite conversation at a reception. I hope the government will recognise managers' heroic dedication by giving awards to Mr Horton & some of his lower down team members. One senior manager has already been rewarded. They deserve it.

Regardless of the various rights or wrongs, I do think your post deserves a 'Red Rag to a Bull' award............

 

[Antman]

Regardless of the various rights or wrongs, I do think your post deserves a 'Red Rag to a Bull' award............

So it seems does any posting on this thread that doesn't go with the flow

 

[pompeyfan]

There is too much railway manager bashing from a few regular posters on this site. Many,but not all,managers are the unsung heroes of the railway industry. They have held Southern together during the concerted momentum of the last few months to destroy it from the left. They have stepped in to guard services so ordinary vulnerable members of the public can make essential rail journeys during strike days. And a few have had to take subtle but aimed insults when doing that work. Re Sprinter's criticism quoted above of a manager. It's quite possible he or she was just trying to initiate a polite conversation at a reception. I hope the government will recognise managers' heroic dedication by giving awards to Mr Horton & some of his lower down team members. One senior manager has already been rewarded. They deserve it.

I hope you enjoy your fishing trip....

 

[Fincra5]

There is too much railway manager bashing from a few regular posters on this site. Many,but not all,managers are the unsung heroes of the railway industry. They have held Southern together during the concerted momentum of the last few months to destroy it from the left. They have stepped in to guard services so ordinary vulnerable members of the public can make essential rail journeys during strike days. And a few have had to take subtle but aimed insults when doing that work. Re Sprinter's criticism quoted above of a manager. It's quite possible he or she was just trying to initiate a polite conversation at a reception. I hope the government will recognise managers' heroic dedication by giving awards to Mr Horton & some of his lower down team members. One senior manager has already been rewarded. They deserve it.

Oh Boy... Here we go.

You do realise a large majority of managers are contractually obliged to work as contingency conductors. Or to work trains (if they're an ex-guard with traction/ route knowledge). I'd hardly call it "heroic" work!

 

[OuterDistant]

Regardless of the various rights or wrongs, I do think your post deserves a 'Red Rag to a Bull' award............

A yellow flag might be better. The bull may proceed, but must run at caution.

 

[Mike395]

BBC Sussex are reporting on Twitter that guards are being given 3 months notice of contract termination from today:

Guards working for @SouthernRailUK are being issued with three months' notice of the termination of their contracts from today.

 

[Deepgreen]

My 377/6 unit this morning still had 'Strike Back' cards posted in the saloons. Looking forward to 14 more days of almost undetectably worse service from Southern!

 

[Antman]

Oh Boy... Here we go.

You do realise a large majority of managers are contractually obliged to work as contingency conductors. Or to work trains (if they're an ex-guard with traction/ route knowledge). I'd hardly call it "heroic" work!

I think that's what comes with being a manager in any walk of life, you do whatever needs to be done hence the adage about not expecting others to do what you can't do yourself.
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BBC Sussex are reporting on Twitter that guards are being given 3 months notice of contract termination from today:

I heard something to that effect on the radio this morning.
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I'm so sorry, I just choked on my Weetabix. You are Peter Wilkinson and I claim my £5.

I could equally and quite legitimately say there's a lot of railway staff bashing from a few regular posters on this site. Indeed, many but not all members of railway staff are the unsung heroes of our railway industry. They have held Southern together during the concerted momentum of the last few months to destroy it from the management.

Etc, etc, etc.

I have some great colleagues in management who I respect and consider brilliant role models. They know their jobs inside out and are always happy to listen to queries or advice from frontline staff, and they care about developing the staff in their charge because at the end of the day without a sense of appreciation in the workforce they aren't going to get a great result. This is a large part of the current Southern problem.

On the other hand there are some managers who are a really poor fit. Many were promoted 'out of harm's way'. Some are way out of their depth from graduate courses and treat the railway as if it was a branch of Asda. Some seem to make it clear they think their staff are worthless and will do anything to demonstrate it (like the current crop at GTR). Some seem to have collected six Weetabix tokens to become a railway manager (I've got 3 so far ).

Of course there are great staff and there are, to be blunt, **** poor staff. The unions have a lot to answer for in some respects (they are used certainly at my workplace to cater for the lazy ones who don't want to do any work). There are staff who should be given awards and staff that should be politely reminded of the location of the nearest door. Similarly, the same applies to managers.

It's all subjective. I'm sure if you were in the guards grade at the moment, you'd had your privileges taken away, the future of your job was in doubt and there are people who would love to just see you on the street, or in a minimum wage agency job, you wouldn't be bowing in front of Mr Horton...

I have railway heroes and many of them are managers. But they certainly aren't you, or Horton, or Crowther. My railway heroes won't get a new job, or a bonus, or an awards ceremony at the Ritz.

Just I've nearly choked on my elevensis reading that. I've heard some bitterness and envy towards management in other industries before, often from those who failed to make the grade themselves, but this really does take the proverbial biscuit!

And what's with the derogatory remark about Asda?

 

[northwichcat]

BBC Sussex are reporting on Twitter that guards are being given 3 months notice of contract termination from today:

So if reports about the RMT rejecting a deal which would see DOO introduced but conductors retaining their jobs on their existing salaries until the end of the franchise was true then the RMT has screwed over their own members!
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I can name 6 or 7 excellent colleagues who have worked for G4s/STM have you told our colleagues your views. I am sure you would be really popular. :roll:

One who transferred to Northern from G4S was part of a team which won a Rail Staff award. It helped that a very experienced ticket office clerk was willing to share his wealth of knowledge with the RPIs and that the RPI in question was keen to learn more than he had learned from his training from G4S.

 

[sarahj]

So if reports about the RMT rejecting a deal which would see DOO introduced but conductors retaining their jobs on their existing salaries until the end of the franchise was true then the RMT has screwed over their own members!

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The ones who have received their notice have until early November to agree to a OBS role.

 

[northwichcat]

On the other hand there are some managers who are a really poor fit. Many were promoted 'out of harm's way'. Some are way out of their depth from graduate courses and treat the railway as if it was a branch of Asda. Some seem to make it clear they think their staff are worthless and will do anything to demonstrate it (like the current crop at GTR). Some seem to have collected six Weetabix tokens to become a railway manager (I've got 3 so far ).

With recruiting managers it's sometimes a case of do they employ someone with a lot of experience in the industry who doesn't really have all the skills required to be a good manager e.g. someone who's been a driver for 30 years but has no management experience, or do they employ someone who has all the skills to be a good manager but doesn't have the experience e.g. an ambitious 25 year old with a degree and a project management qualification?

 

[Barn]

With recruiting managers it's sometimes a case of do they employ someone with a lot of experience in the industry who doesn't really have all the skills required to be a good manager e.g. someone who's been a driver for 30 years but has no management experience, or do they employ someone who has all the skills to be a good manager but doesn't have the experience e.g. an ambitious 25 year old with a degree and a project management qualification?

Or (probably best of all) somebody who has actual management experience in a field which creates skills that can be transferred to the railways (i.e. where safety is key, where the workforce is unionised, etc).

 

[infobleep]

Good luck with that. Do you know where the wheelchair ramp is? how to use it? Do you have the key to unlock it from stowage?

It is up to the railway to make itself accessible.

Perhaps they could give people the ewviliwnt/equivalent of a Radar key but for disabled ramps. By the key area for the key would be a Upton to press to alert the driver that this was due to happen.

They would only use ramps that are on the trains of course. If they wished to use a station ramp perhaps that could have a button and alerts the train driver. May be a very high pitched loud noise that deafens everyone until it is manually switched off by someone.

All above suggestions no doubt unworkable but who cares. Lol.

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But that is based on the RMT coming to agreement about the OBS. They point blank refuse to do so. Makes planning future requirements difficult so its not surprising they don't have enough staff.

They have had months and months recruit staff or where they not allowed to recruit the staff until a certain date.

How many staff are they short by?

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BBC Sussex are reporting on Twitter that guards are being given 3 months notice of contract termination from today:

Does that mean redundancy pay? Weren't they trying to avoid that.

Be Intresting to see what happens if most guards took the termination, given that some routes must have a guard.

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[tsr]

Lots of generalisation here, including by the BBC. Those conductors eligible for a transfer to OBS have been sent the letters. Those not eligible - those who the company has decided should stay as conductors - have not been told of any change to their contracts, though there may potentially be link/roster changes.

Be Intresting to see what happens if most guards took the termination, given that some routes must have a guard.

Many of said routes with a blanket requirement for conductors are served by conductors who have not been advised their contracts will be terminated, and therefore would have to go through the normal processes of giving notice themselves, if they wished to leave their roles.
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My 377/6 unit this morning still had 'Strike Back' cards posted in the saloons. Looking forward to 14 more days of almost undetectably worse service from Southern!

Those 377 advertising cards are posted and removed by contractor staff at a selected range of times, at a very limited number of locations. It is quite possible that said 377 had not been to any of those locations at those times. Certainly not the best situation but that's the hazard of relying on potentially damaging adverts being removed by third parties...

 

[sarahj]

Lots of generalisation here, including by the BBC. Those conductors eligible for a transfer to OBS have been sent the letters. Those not eligible - those who the company has decided should stay as conductors - have not been told of any change to their contracts, though there may potentially be link/roster changes.



Many of said routes with a blanket requirement for conductors are served by conductors who have not been advised their contracts will be terminated, and therefore would have to go through the normal processes of giving notice themselves, if they wished to leave their roles.
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Those 377 advertising cards are posted and removed by contractor staff at a selected range of times, at a very limited number of locations. It is quite possible that said 377 had not been to any of those locations at those times. Certainly not the best situation but that's the hazard of relying on potentially damaging adverts being removed by third parties...

There are lots going spare:

 

[sarahj]

pics did not post, try again:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A yellow flag might be better. The bull may proceed, but must run at caution.

Is there a need for a second picador in circumstances like this, for health and safety reasons?

 

[tsr]

pics did not post, try again:

So that's why that door has been so hard to open for weeks on end!

 

[northwichcat]

Or (probably best of all) somebody who has actual management experience in a field which creates skills that can be transferred to the railways (i.e. where safety is key, where the workforce is unionised, etc).

Who would want a much bigger salary, which could lead to the TOC facing criticism from the union from increasing manager's pay.

 

[Dave1987]

Who would want a much bigger salary, which could lead to the TOC facing criticism from the union from increasing manager's pay.

All the best managers I know are ones who have done the job themselves for years before hand.

 

[infobleep]

pics did not post, try again:

Will they become a collectors item? I wasn't aware hardcopies existed at first.

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[Carlisle]

Those 377 advertising cards are posted and removed by contractor staff at a selected range of times, at a very limited number of locations. It is quite possible that said 377 had not been to any of those locations at those times. Certainly not the best situation but that's the hazard of relying on potentially damaging adverts being removed by third parties...

Probably the same companies whose staff travel around fitting bus adverts on nights at the depots

 

[swt class 450]

Out of interest at depots which will have both how have Southern decided which Guards will get to stay as Guards and which Guards will become OBS?

 

[ungreat]

We have a Driver manager who in reality is a nice chap..but has never worked on a train ever in any way shape or form.To me as a 30 years footplateman he simply isn't fit for the job.

 

[Fincra5]

Out of interest at depots which will have both how have Southern decided which Guards will get to stay as Guards and which Guards will become OBS?

First come first serve it seems! Out of a certain number for conductors required at either Barnham, Brighton, Eastbourne or Selhurst.

 

[swt class 450]

I believe its Barnham, Brighton, Eastbourne and Selhurst

I believe at Selhurst all of the Guards are staying as Guards? But at Barnham / Brighton / Eastbourne i believe that only some of them will stay as Guards (for the 171/313) while others will become OBS?

 

[Chrisgr31]

This extract from an apparent RSSB report has been doing the rounds on Twitter. If genuinue is it something that the Rail Safety and Standards Board should be talking about?

 

[physics34]

This extract from an apparent RSSB report has been doing the rounds on Twitter. If genuinue is it something that the Rail Safety and Standards Board should be talking about?

Yeh not a single mention of 'safety'.

 

[Robertj21a]

Is there much/anything in that paper that is very surprising, given what we know ?. It just looks like the obvious paperwork you'd expect when outlining future plans.