Who do you support for Labour party leader?

[MidlandMainlie]

Sorry for the long responses but there are a few things I wanted to comment on.

What do y'll think of this...

https://thegerasites.wordpress.com/2016/08/01/vote-for-owen-smith/

I agree with this 100%, As someone who previously voted for Corbyn because like the author of that blog I wasn't impressed with any of the candidates so decided to go with the candidate who came across as the most "authentic". However in the last year it has become clear to me that Corbyn 's leadership skills are non-existent and under him Labour are heading for complete disaster. That's why I have voted for Owen Smith this time, not because I believe he can win an election but because under him Labour hopefully won't lose as many seats in a General Election. Sadly Corbyn's supporters are too blinkered to see the disaster they are heading for.

John Mann but unfortunately he's not interested.

MP's like John Mann and Frank Field are much more in touch with Labour supporters especially in the North of England than Corbyn or most other pro-European MP's who represent constituencies in the North. Unless Labour start listening to them then we risk haemorrhaging votes to UKIP and losing support in the North just like we lost support in Scotland to the SNP.

don't be silly - Blair is/was a centre left/social democratic politician. Look at the achievements of his government. I wouldn't call things like a nation minimum wage or sure start or introduction of paid paternity leave or the Human Rights Act as Tory policies - but then that doesn't fit with the rhetoric does it?

We need more centre ground policies not less!

Agreed, apart from the calamity of Iraq the New Labour record wasn't too bad and many good things were archived in government, but mistakes were also made and opportunities missed. Frank Field as Minister of Welfare Reform had some good ideas for reforming the benefits system but they were rejected by Blair for short term vote winning policies. Similarly I think Labour should have been much bolder on constitutional reform and brought in proportional representation when it had the chance, now without support from Scotland it is next to impossible for labour to win under FPTP in England.

I'm a pretty liberal/moderate Tory, but I've persuaded my mum who has a vote due to her union at work to vote for Corbyn, both as an act of sabotage and because even Owen Smith is too far left for me, and therefore send a message that labour needs to regain the proper centre ground i.e. New Labour. She, like me, doesn't like either of them (she calls Corbyn "the idiot") and wasn't planning on voting, but I managed to persuade her.

In a hypothetical general election between a "Blairite" and a very right wing Tory I would definitely vote Labour.

I think you and others who advocate voting for Corbyn need to be very careful, by weakening Labour to the point it risks crippling the party means the Tories lose their opposition in parliament and without an opposition to focus on then the Tories will invariably turn on each other. Divisions are already beginning to open up within the Cabinet and between Tory MP's with the pro-Brexit ministers/MP's who want full control of Immigration even if that means quitting the single market and the pro-remain ministers/MP's who want continued access to the single market for business even if that means accepting free movement of people and contributions to the EU budget. Anyone who thinks that the EU referendum will have settled Troy divisions over Europe or that Theresa May will find managing Brexit easy are going to be disappointed. a credible Labour leader would be able to exploit these divisions but I doubt Corbyn has the political nounce and smith seems intent on rerunning the referendum campaign rather than acknowledging the vote was lost and working cross party to secure the best deal.

 

[Johnuk123]

For any interested, I am a Liberal.

It takes a real man to admit to such a terrible thing.

 

[Midland Mole]

If Corbyn stays leader, I severely worry for the future of this country...

 

[Harbornite]

It takes a real man to admit to such a terrible thing.

Could be worst. At least he's not a full-blown socialist or a Communist.

 

[Darren R]

How well was Ed Balls liked in the constituency of Morley and Outwood and was he expected to retain that seat at the last General Election instead of losing it.

During the 2015 General Election campaign I found myself stood on a train next to someone who was clearly a Conservative Central Office worker engaged in a very indiscreet telephone conversation with one of his colleagues on this very question. Judging by what he was saying, they definitely expected to win the constituency from Mr Balls.

(Sorry - off-topic!)

Back to Mr Corbyn's chances - it's pretty obvious he's going to win, and probably with increased support. What that will mean for the future of the Labour Party remains to be seen, but what is going on in Turkey at the moment is a demonstration of how a failed attempt to oust a democratically elected leader actually strengthens that leader's position.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Judging by what he was saying, they definitely expected to win the constituency from Mr Balls.

It was close, and I think Balls would have won it if he'd bothered himself to get out campaigning locally a bit more. It wasn't a safe seat by any stretch of the imagination, but I think he threw it away rather than the Tories winning it through the strength of their policies.

a credible Labour leader would be able to exploit these divisions but I doubt Corbyn has the political nounce and smith seems intent on rerunning the referendum campaign rather than acknowledging the vote was lost and working cross party to secure the best deal.

The referendum is an interesting one. I don't think the Brexit lot would have accepted such a close vote- there was less than 2% in it- and so I don't agree with the idea that the Remain camp should accept such a close vote either. The referendum vote is non-binding guidance, nothing more and nothing less. Referenda have been ignored before, most notably with the abolition of the death penalty. I suspect the result of this referendum is also going to be ignored, the Department of Brexit seems to be more about kicking it into the long grass.

The political nous will come in how it is kicked into the long grass, and for how long, and I don't think rerunning the referendum will help with that. Theresa May seems to be showing nous in kicking it into the long grass whilst making all the right noises. But it can't be kicked into the long grass forever, there is too much instability as a result of the vote.

I agree with this post quite a bit - including that last sentiment. Kenneth Clarke is further to the left than him!

Clarke has always been to the centre of the Tory party, and was an excellent Chancellor for precisely this reason.

Blair was a centre-left politician though, regardless of whether he was one you approved of. He brought in the Human Rights Act, the national minimum wage, SureStart, child tax credits, paid paternity leave, the working hours laws, civil partnerships, and reform of the House of Lords. Not all of it was successful and not all of it went as far as I would have liked, although I think Blair was clever enough to not push things too far too fast.

 

[Domh245]

I think this YouGov survey will make for quite interesting reading.

 

[Steveman]

Keith Vaz today doing wonders for the rapidly imploding labour party.

 

[Harbornite]

Keith Vaz today doing wonders for the rapidly imploding labour party.

Here's the news article on said incident...

Labour MP Keith Vaz paid for the services of male escorts, the Sunday Mirror has reported.
The married father-of-two paid for the men to visit him one evening last month at a flat he owns in London, it claims.
The Leicester East MP, who is chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee which monitors crime and drugs policy, said he was referring the claims to his solicitor and would be seeking advice.
Several newspapers say Mr Vaz, 59, is stepping down as committee chairman.
However, Mr Vaz did not comment on those reports in a statement to the BBC.
He said: "It is deeply disturbing that a national newspaper should have paid individuals to have acted in this way.
"I have referred these allegations to my solicitor Mark Stephens of Howard Kennedy who will consider them carefully and advise me accordingly."
'Dreadful time'

A Labour Party spokesman said: "Keith Vaz has issued a statement on this matter. As with all departmental select committees, Keith was elected to the chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee by the House of Commons, and his position is a matter for him and the House."

According to the Sunday Mirror, Mr Vaz's meeting with two male escorts included a discussion about using the party drug Poppers.
Mr Vaz had opposed government attempts to criminalise the drug. Ministers later announced they would remain within the law.
His committee is also currently overseeing a review of the UK's prostitution laws.

In response to Mr Vaz's statement criticising the Sunday Mirror, a spokeswoman for the newspaper said the company did not want to be drawn into an argument on the details but said the paper "stands by the story".
When asked about the allegations, shadow health secretary Diane Abbott said: "I've known Keith for over 30 years. I think this must be a dreadful time for him and his family - his wife and his two children - and I'd rather not comment."

Conservative former Culture Secretary John Whittingdale said it was right for Mr Vaz to temporarily step aside.
"Keith Vaz, as I understand it, has said he will stand aside from the chairmanship and, given the areas for which the committee is responsible, that does seem to me to be a sensible course of action."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37269919

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

At this present point of time, what side of the Labour Party do the Sunday Mirror adhere to politically?

 

[Clip]

At this present point of time, what side of the Labour Party do the Sunday Mirror adhere to politically?

I think they like Corbyn hence the sting they have got hold of - wasnt Vaz a Blairite?

To be honest ive given up keeping up on all of them

 

[St Rollox]

12 people turned up for an Owen Smith meeting in Glasgow.
Only 4 of them were Labour Party members.
The rest were journalists.
Nobody was offered ice cream.
Not sure if it says more about Owen Smith than SLAB.
There was no sign of the Scottish Labour leader who is well known as being anti Corbyn.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

12 people turned up for an Owen Smith meeting in Glasgow.
Only 4 of them were Labour Party members.
The rest were journalists.
Nobody was offered ice cream.
Not sure if it says more about Owen Smith than SLAB.
There was no sign of the Scottish Labour leader who is well known as being anti Corbyn.

This says quite a lot on how the Labour Party are viewed in Scotland in general.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

12 people turned up for an Owen Smith meeting in Glasgow.
Only 4 of them were Labour Party members.
The rest were journalists.
Nobody was offered ice cream.
Not sure if it says more about Owen Smith than SLAB.
There was no sign of the Scottish Labour leader who is well known as being anti Corbyn.

Actually I'd say what it tells you is rather about the dangers of selective reporting. Owen Smith has, like Corbyn, had many events, and from what I've heard, some of them (including one in my local area) have been extremely well attended, others less so. 4 members would be extraordinarily low, but without knowing the circumstances, it's hard to draw any conclusions from it (was it organized at the last minute? Was it actually intended as a mass-meeting or not?) You could only really make a fair comment if you provided some overall data about the trend of meetings Owen organized.

The fact that the Scottish Labour leader was not present tells you nothing of significance whatsoever - clearly the Scottish Labour leader has a lot of other work to do and cannot possibly attend every meeting organized by any other politicians she happens to support.

It does however seem to be the case that Corbyn events tend to be better attended than Owen events. And of course it's also true that Labour has lost a huge amount of support in Glasgow the last few years, both of which may have contributed to the numbers you mention.

 

[Busaholic]

Been watching the 'Question Time' debate between Corbyn and Smith and it confirmed for me that Smith should never have been the preferred challenger to Corbyn. His performance was peevish, self-regarding and, in his attempts to row back from previous statements on such matters as negotiations with ISIS and a second referendum, insulting. David Dimbleby would not allow him his claims on the ISIS remarks, quoting them back to him but, a bit like Gordon Brown, he still would not admit his original remarks were a mistake. I'm no Corbyn fan, but he produced quite a polished (but not slick) performance and didn't slag Smith off and it was clear to me that if there was a 'winner' in this debate it was Jeremy.

 

[jon0844]

I am amazed anyone watched the whole of Question Time. I had to give up. Neither candidate can lead the party and all it means is that Labour currently has NO chance of winning an election.

I do expect Jeremy will win, and he spoke so much about 'social justice' and mentioning students repeatedly as if nobody else matters* that I am sure he expects they'll carry him. It's unfortunate perhaps that stats show that young people often don't vote, so he's on a loser right there.

* I remember as a student thinking that I knew it all. That old people were out of touch. However, I was nothing like the Corbynistas that seem to think nobody older than 25 should even be able to air an opinion on anything these days.

 

[Busaholic]

I am amazed anyone watched the whole of Question Time. I had to give up. Neither candidate can lead the party and all it means is that Labour currently has NO chance of winning an election.

I do expect Jeremy will win, and he spoke so much about 'social justice' and mentioning students repeatedly as if nobody else matters* that I am sure he expects they'll carry him. It's unfortunate perhaps that stats show that young people often don't vote, so he's on a loser right there.

* I remember as a student thinking that I knew it all. That old people were out of touch. However, I was nothing like the Corbynistas that seem to think nobody older than 25 should even be able to air an opinion on anything these days.

I missed the first 20 minutes or so and can't be bothered to catch up.

Corbynistas are an interesting bunch, because JC (maybe those initials mean something mystic to the followers) and his inner sanctum are all in their 60s snd 70s, other than S. Milne. It is almost like a religious cult, where the older 'prophets', invariably male, are fawned upon by younger converts, often female. Such a cult, the Children of God, was based close to my family home in Bromley in the 1970s and I observed a lot of their machinations.

 

[PHILIPE]

Owen Smith is quoted today as saying that if he were to become PM he would apply to re-join the European Union. He's continually going on that there should be another Referendum because he didn't like the result of 23rd June. Even Jeremy Corbyn has said the result must be respected whether he likes it or not. .

 

[Johnuk123]

Owen Smith is quoted today as saying that if he were to become PM he would apply to re-join the European Union. He's continually going on that there should be another Referendum because he didn't like the result of 23rd June. Even Jeremy Corbyn has said the result must be respected whether he likes it or not. .

He'll be history in a couple of weeks and will slink back to the back benches into obscurity so what he thinks is irrelevant.

Meanwhile on Sky News the shadow foreign minister the uncouth, pig-ignorant, pompous and downright nasty Emily Thornberry unbelievably didn't know who the French foreign minster was or if the South Korea president was a man or a woman.
She accused Dermot Murnaghan of sexism and said "don't start pub-quizzing me" when she couldn't name prominent overseas politicians, she's a horrible piece of work who fits in very well on labours' front bench.
When you're given a job of shadow foreign secretary you should diligently do your homework.

 

[Domh245]

Owen Smith is quoted today as saying that if he were to become PM he would apply to re-join the European Union. He's continually going on that there should be another Referendum because he didn't like the result of 23rd June. Even Jeremy Corbyn has said the result must be respected whether he likes it or not. .

Corbyn is a long time Eurosceptic, it wouldn't come as a great surprise if he voted to leave.

 

[PHILIPE]

He'll be history in a couple of weeks and will slink back to the back benches into obscurity so what he thinks is irrelevant.

He's just a poor loser.

 

[Johnuk123]

He's just a poor loser.

He should join this forum he'd be in very good company.

 

[Hornet]

He should join this forum he'd be in very good company.

Too True!

 

[Groningen]

Maybe known to you, but not here in the Netherlands that Corbyn's army did everything in it power to make life a misery for Angela Eagle and Ruth Smeeth. it seems that the last one takes a bodyguard to Liverpool. Luciana Berger received a threat with the picture of a knive. Not sure whether it can from the left or right. it will be a little less left or going full to the left.

 

[PHILIPE]

I think Jeremy Corbyn has now become a puppet of Momentum, an assortment of Trots and Commies who have been waiting in the wings since Neil Kinnock booted them out in the 90s. His policies, if you can call them that, gave Momentum an excuse to try and get back into the Labour Party and Corbyn will do nothing about it. I read in the Sun yesterday, should Corbyn ever become Prime Minister, he will appoint a Minister who would go round the world persuading everybody to promote peace and disarmament.

 

[DarloRich]

I think Jeremy Corbyn has now become a puppet of Momentum, an assortment of Trots and Commies who have been waiting in the wings since Neil Kinnock booted them out in the 90s. His policies, if you can call them that, gave Momentum an excuse to try and get back into the Labour Party and Corbyn will do nothing about it. I read in the Sun yesterday, should Corbyn ever become Prime Minister, he will appoint a Minister who would go round the world persuading everybody to promote peace and disarmament.

there is one obvious problem with that statement: Don't read the Sun.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I think Jeremy Corbyn has now become a puppet of Momentum, an assortment of Trots and Commies who have been waiting in the wings since Neil Kinnock booted them out in the 90s

Do you actually know anyone involved with Momentum or who supports Jeremy Corbyn?
I am guessing not.
Most of those I know who support him weren't old enough to vote in the 90s!

I read in the Sun yesterday

Says its all really.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think Jeremy Corbyn has now become a puppet of Momentum, an assortment of Trots and Commies who have been waiting in the wings since Neil Kinnock booted them out in the 90s. His policies, if you can call them that, gave Momentum an excuse to try and get back into the Labour Party and Corbyn will do nothing about it. I read in the Sun yesterday, should Corbyn ever become Prime Minister, he will appoint a Minister who would go round the world persuading everybody to promote peace and disarmament.

If you believe what you read in the Sun then you've failed at the outset.

The Sun isn't a proper newspaper.

 

[Butts]

If you believe what you read in the Sun then you've failed at the outset.

The Sun isn't a proper newspaper.

Agreed, Newzoids is a far better source of infromation.

 

[Phil.]

there is one obvious problem with that statement: Don't read the Sun.

Perhaps so but the fact is that every hard left organisation in the land is pushing for Corbyn. I'm fairly sure that what would happen to Corbyn is what happened to Andrew MacIntosh(spelling?) when voted leader of the old GLC. Within a very very short time an internal coup ousted him and installed Ken Livingstone and his Marxist cronies with all of their loony ideas and frivolous spending of ratepayer's money.