Change of type and overdistance

[fraser158]

Is it possible to excess an Inverness - Crewe Off-Peak Return to an Inverness - London Terminals Super Off-Peak Return?

Is it made complicated due to two changes being needed?

 

[Merseysider]

It's certainly possible to excess overdistance to London. You don't have a contractual right to it however. It would ideally need to be done before travel commences from Inverness and in any case before you reach Crewe.

If you make clear that you'll be travelling at a time when the Super Off Peak return is valid, the clerk may excess to this rather than the more expensive Off Peak return. I've had two of my local TOCs do something very similar recently (NLW-WBQ SDS->NLW-WKI CDS) so I know it's possible.

If you have no luck, you could choose to pay a £10 admin fee to refund the original ticket before purchasing the new one.

 

[bakerstreet]

It's certainly possible to excess overdistance to London. You don't have a contractual right to it however. It .

Hi regarding this - I use excesses a lot usually because the office changes my plans for me late notice. I've never had a problem getting an excess on the train or from an rpi at a station (before starting said journey if im overdistance excessing! They all usually do it without missing a beat.

I'm interested in the contractual aspect of this.

13(e) of the nrcoc certainly mentions excess fares for travelling by an invalid route. But does this mean that the railway are contractually obligated to give certain types of excesses and not others?

If so. Is it down to individual members of staff or tocs to decide when and where to offer others. Or the dft?

I remember seeing the East Coast excess revenue protection handbook after the foi request and I couldn't remember a mention of any contractual obligations so I'm not any clearer.

Which makes me wonder

- can one toc sell an excess fare for any ticket where one is available (I assume yes)

- would a toc which doesn't like selling excesses get annoyed or ask for the revenue they lost out on if a helpful toc (for want of a better expression) sells an excess for an unhelpful toc's journey

- in the case of ticket types and journeys where an excess should usually be available for sale, is there an industry or passenger guide on when contractually you can be secure in the knowledge they must excess your ticket and when it's down to, er, goodwill?

- if you pay more because you were refused an excess could you request back the difference

This seems very woolly policy !!! and something which sadly could be easy to dispense with if the rules are so unclear. I would like all excesses to be sold in all circumstances where where necessary you ask for one before travel.

It benefits the passenger and the toc as both parties are treated fairly

The toc receives the fare due and nothing more.

The passenger pays the fair due and nothing more.





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[najaB]

...would a toc which doesn't like selling excesses get annoyed or ask for the revenue they lost out on if a helpful toc (for want of a better expression) sells an excess for an unhelpful toc's journey...

If you mean where there are TOC-specific fares, then I don't believe it is possible to 'excess away' that restriction.

 

[bakerstreet]

If you mean where there are TOC-specific fares, then I don't believe it is possible to 'excess away' that restriction.

Hi najaB no I meant a non toc specific ticket but a ticket completely or mainly on a toc who don't like issuing excesses!!


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[OwlMan]

There should be no problem providing you do so before using the ticket at Inverness station.

 

[Haywain]

Would this be a good time to get into a discussion about which route the OP can use from Inverness to London once an excess fare has been obtained?

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[hairyhandedfool]

Is it possible to excess an Inverness - Crewe Off-Peak Return to an Inverness - London Terminals Super Off-Peak Return?

Is it made complicated due to two changes being needed?

The Excess Fare would be done as one change but it *may* be a different Excess Fare procedure depending on which route you take to London and which person does the Excess Fare. An Over-Distance Excess Fare must be done before travelling. There is also a process for "Off route to a new destination" which is not, strictly speaking, an Excess Fare, but is noted in the Excess Fares section of the staff manual.

Hi regarding this - I use excesses a lot usually because the office changes my plans for me late notice. I've never had a problem getting an excess on the train or from an rpi at a station (before starting said journey if im overdistance excessing! They all usually do it without missing a beat....

Excess Fares aren't really difficult, but, as you note, some do have time restrictions on them.

....I'm interested in the contractual aspect of this.

13(e) of the nrcoc certainly mentions excess fares for travelling by an invalid route. But does this mean that the railway are contractually obligated to give certain types of excesses and not others?

If so. Is it down to individual members of staff or tocs to decide when and where to offer others. Or the dft?....

The Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA) notes where an Excess Fares should be done.

An Over-Distance excess fare may be sold for "travel beyond the Station to which the Fare he holds entitles him to travel, but only where he was unable to buy a Fare that entitles him to make such a journey at the Station where and at the time when he started his journey".

....I remember seeing the East Coast excess revenue protection handbook after the foi request and I couldn't remember a mention of any contractual obligations so I'm not any clearer.

Which makes me wonder

- can one toc sell an excess fare for any ticket where one is available (I assume yes)....

A sales point (not an agent) may sell an Excess Fare in accordance with the TSA. All ticket offices should be able to issue Excess Fares for most, if not all, cases where they are permitted.

- would a toc which doesn't like selling excesses get annoyed or ask for the revenue they lost out on if a helpful toc (for want of a better expression) sells an excess for an unhelpful toc's journey ....

There are certain Excess Fares that a TOC should always offer, however, a TOC could not 'claim back' money from an Excess Fare that it refused to offer, but which is permitted.

- in the case of ticket types and journeys where an excess should usually be available for sale, is there an industry or passenger guide on when contractually you can be secure in the knowledge they must excess your ticket and when it's down to, er, goodwill? ....

Aside from the NRCoC, I don't know of anything the public could use to guarantee anything. The TSA is publicly available, however, it is not exactly clear cut on a few things.

- if you pay more because you were refused an excess could you request back the difference ....

I think it depends what you ask for, and in what situation.

....This seems very woolly policy !!! and something which sadly could be easy to dispense with if the rules are so unclear. I would like all excesses to be sold in all circumstances where where necessary you ask for one before travel.....

There are times when an Excess Fare is permitted and times when they are not, and being in the TSA it won't be that easy to get rid of (the TSA is part of the Franchise Agreement for each TOC). In the grand scheme of things there are fewer times it is not possible, than is possible, and relatively few were they are actually needed.

....It benefits the passenger and the toc as both parties are treated fairly ....

There are many things that treat each side fairly, unfortunately some people only see what the other side is contracted to do and deem it unfair when they are required to keep their to side of the deal.

....The toc receives the fare due and nothing more....

The railway might, for the TOCs it's a little more complex than that.

....The passenger pays the fair due and nothing more....

All things being equal, but some fares are cheaper for the very reason that you cannot change them in particular ways, or it costs more to do so. If the passenger agrees to that then I guess that's still fair, but when they want to do something, that they've agreed they cannot do, you rarely find them saying "that's fair" when they are reminded about it.

Would this be a good time to get into a discussion about which route the OP can use from Inverness to London once an excess fare has been obtained?....

I do not believe there is any point in going into a debate on this as I very much doubt anybody's opinion on the matter has changed and I doubt there is anything new to add.