Collision and derailment on RH&DR

[2HAP]

A train has collided with a tractor at Dymchurch. Locomotive derailed, driver and four passengers injured.

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/hythe/news/train-derails-after-crash-with-102247/

Passengers were injured when a train derailed after crashing into a tractor.
Police, paramedics and fire crews are at the scene in Dymchurch where the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch light railway has hit a tractor at a crossing and come off the tracks.

Fire crews dealt with the locomotive's boiler which was "at risk of exploding" and eye-witness Sandra Leverick, of Tudor Avenue, says she saw the train driver leap from the carriage and take others to safety after it collapsed onto its side.

Five people, including the steam train driver, have been treated at the scene by paramedics for minor injuries and the rest of the approximately 50 passengers have been checked over as a precaution.

Sandra told KentOnline this afternoon: "I could hear the whistle going and that is quite unusual so I walked into my garden to see what was going on.

"There is an unmanned crossing which I have seen the tractor using regularly today but the tractor wasn't moving and the train was coming.

"They carried on blowing the whistle and then suddenly the front engine part of the train was off the tracks.

"The driver was amazing....

 

[Phil.]

I wonder what the Fire and Rescue Service did to, "secure the boiler which was in danger of exploding"?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Two RHDR drivers have lost their lives in level crossing incidents previously (that I know of). How are the crossing lights activated down there? Are they all still open crossings?

 

[theageofthetra]

Its another incident involving a thick farm worker overloading a trailer to save it a bit of time and it stalling on a crossing. Not a road crossing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I wonder what the Fire and Rescue Service did to, "secure the boiler which was in danger of exploding"?

Ran a hose into firebox to kill fire I would imagine. Any info on loco involved?

 

[2HAP]

Any info on loco involved?

Today's roster

Sat 10th:- Northern Chief, Green Goddess, Winston Churchill and diesel Captain Howey

Green loco involved so Northern Chief or Green Goddess

 

[A0]

Looks like Green Goddess from the pics on here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ight-railway-driver-leap-carriage-safety.html

 

[theironroad]

Its another incident involving a thick farm worker overloading a trailer to save it a bit of time and it stalling on a crossing. Not a road crossing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ran a hose into firebox to kill fire I would imagine. Any info on loco involved?

Are those statements based on fact of what happened in this incident today?

 

[richw]

Are those statements based on fact of what happened in this incident today?

The witness stated to the paper the tractor was stopped/stuck on the crossing.

 

[TBirdFrank]

Whilst I will always be prepared to go right up to the line, but not cross it when legal matters are concerned, this looks like the kind of open and shut case that has afflicted this lovely little line before - and with fatal consequences too!

The circumstances of farm equipment and railway equipment have changed so much since the line opened that perhaps a different legal view needs to be taken. Look how a modern farm tractor with perhaps forty tons behind the drawbar towers above the train!

If the driver was an idiot and had stalled on the crossing then there needs to be the strongest charges possible and a custodial sentence to follow - and not before time!!!!

 

[paul1609]

I would urge caution. A tractor driver was recently castigated on another railway forum by many including railway professionals. It subsequently turned out he had correctly followed procedure and been given permission by the signaller to cross in front of the train. It all went very quiet and there haven't been any calls for the custodial sentence they were demanding for the tractor driver to be imposed on the signaller.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I can see both TBirdFrank and Paul1609's points here. First and foremost kudos to the driver and thoughts to all. Credit also to the emergency services.

When I visited the line last year the standards seamed very high in terms of operations and safety

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I hadn't realised there were any crossings on the line other than those on public roads or footpaths.

 

[jopsuk]

more pictures and information in this local news report


The line runs for a considerable distance through flat farmland; agricultural accommodation crossings are inevitable

 

[theironroad]

more pictures and information in this local news report


The line runs for a considerable distance through flat farmland; agricultural accommodation crossings are inevitable

The picture of the engine embedded in the dirt looks quite sad, with a little steam still escaping as if Thomas or Ivor himself was giving his last breaths.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

more pictures and information in this local news report


The line runs for a considerable distance through flat farmland; agricultural accommodation crossings are inevitable

That does make sense when I think about it- I last rode the line as a 13/14yr-old (20 years ago!) so that'll be why I hadn't remembered any farm crossings!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The picture of the engine embedded in the dirt looks quite sad, with a little steam still escaping as if Thomas or Ivor himself was giving his last breaths.

I do wonder if the diminutive size of the track and stock makes drivers of road/farm vehicles more complacent- they might assume that the stopping distances for "little trains" would compare more favourably with road vehicles than they actually do. That said, incidents of this nature seem to affect the RHDR more than (for example) the Ffestiniog or WHR which of course has a more complex interaction with the road network at Porthmadog.

 

[alexl92]

From what I've seen since apparently the social media suggestion that the boiler was 'in danger of exploding' is just fantasy - I don't know what the science behind it would say though so I could be wrong.

What speed do the trains on the RH&DR travel at?

 

[edwin_m]

From what I've seen since apparently the social media suggestion that the boiler was 'in danger of exploding' is just fantasy - I don't know what the science behind it would say though so I could be wrong.

The report into boiler overheating on the Kirklees light railway suggests one possibility:

https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/boiler-incident-on-the-kirklees-light-railway

A steam locomotive hauling a passenger train on the Kirklees Light Railway on 3 July 2011 ran low on water in the boiler. The train crew did not take prompt action to deal with the situation and the boiler overheated, damaging the locomotive and giving rise to a risk of injury to the train crew if the overheated metal had ruptured.

Not exactly the same chain of events I imagine if the boiler was not being topped up with water the same situation would arise as described in paragraph 43 of the linked PDF:

The temperature of the fire can reach a level where the strength of the firebox metal would be compromised if there was no water behind to cool it. The first part of the firebox to be exposed by falling water level would be the crownsheet. If this becomes overheated, there is a risk of it failing, with the release of the boiler pressure into the firebox and ejection of the fire into the cab. This is why it is important to keep the water level above the top of the firebox.

This is despite the presence of a fusible plug. I imagine also if the boiler was damaged there might be a risk of explosion at a pressure below the setting of the safety valve. Firefighters are probably not trained in the detailed workings of steam locomotives but they would be aware of the presence of a pressure vessel and I imagine the standard procedure would be to eliminate that hazard.

 

[AndyPJG]

I gather from a friend of the (loco) driver that he was back on the footplate today, which is good news - may be a bit longer before the loco is back.

 

[alexl92]

I gather from a friend of the (loco) driver that he was back on the footplate today, which is good news - may be a bit longer before the loco is back.

That's really good to hear. Locos are replacable, people are not!

Has the loco been lifted yet? I imagine the left side is fairly battered.

 

[notadriver]

From what I've seen since apparently the social media suggestion that the boiler was 'in danger of exploding' is just fantasy - I don't know what the science behind it would say though so I could be wrong.

What speed do the trains on the RH&DR travel at?

25mph but on a recent ride I noticed they have to slow to 10 mph over level crossings.

 

[bb21]

I don't think speculation in respect of the causes is helpful.

Once the causes have been established, then fair enough.

 

[AndyPJG]

That's really good to hear. Locos are replacable, people are not!

Has the loco been lifted yet? I imagine the left side is fairly battered.

From the BBC News item today, loco recovered overnight and normal running today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-37334154

Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch train crash driver praised
The driver of a miniature steam train that collided with a tractor at a farm crossing has been praised for the way he rushed to the aid of passengers.
Five people, including the driver, suffered minor injuries in the incident in Dymchurch, Kent, on Saturday.
Local resident Sandra Leverick said she saw the man "hurl himself out of the engine" as it went over on its side.
"He immediately went into that first carriage, which was an open carriage, and started getting passengers out."
Ms Leverick added: "The driver was amazing."
Fifty passengers were evacuated from the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway (RHDR) train after the engine and the first carriage came off the tracks, onto their side, at about 14:30 BST.
Firefighters called to the scene secured the locomotive's boiler, which was thought to be at risk of exploding. The remaining 12 carriages were unaffected.
The driver was said to have been extremely shaken.
Danny Martin, RHDR general manager, said: The driver did a very brave thing, but he also had done everything he could first of all to look after the train and his passengers.
"He had very little time to react."
Mr Martin said the circumstances surrounding the incident would be fully investigated.
The wreckage was cleared away in the early hours of the morning, and services were running as normal on Sunday.

 

[2HAP]

Does anyone know if the RAIB are investigating this one?

 

[philthetube]

Is there any news on how badly Green Goddess is damaged

 

[ac6000cw]

I can see both TBirdFrank and Paul1609's points here. First and foremost kudos to the driver and thoughts to all. Credit also to the emergency services.

When I visited the line last year the standards seamed very high in terms of operations and safety

I agree - it's a 'mainline in miniature' (one-third scale, to be exact), complete with signalling, tokens on the single-line sections and continuous brakes on the trains (vacuum as far as I could tell from the hoses). It has automatic half-barrier crossings across significant public roads, with automatic open crossings (just flashing lights) on the quiet ones - in conjunction with 10 mph or lower speed restrictions for trains on the open crossings. I didn't notice what the situation was for farm crossings.

I was actually riding around on the RHDR on the day the accident happened (and almost travelled on the train involved - I had alighted from it at New Romney after travelling from Dungeness - if I'd decided to stay on it instead I would probably have been in the front carriage...). The railway organised rail-replacement buses between New Romney and Hythe for the rest of the day - I thought the whole situation was handled very well in the circumstances.

In relation to how boiler explosions can happen, here is a forum thread from last year - http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=115747 (they are not fictional events, a high pressure steam locomotive boiler is not a glorified kettle...)

 

[alexl92]

Is there any news on how badly Green Goddess is damaged

Seconding this - do we know the extend of the damage yet?

 

[Zoidberg]

Does anyone know if the RAIB are investigating this one?

RAIB will be issuing a Safety Digest. From

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/level-crossing-collision-romney-hythe-dymchurch-railway

We have undertaken a preliminary examination into the circumstances surrounding this accident. Having assessed the evidence which has been gathered to date, we have decided not to conduct a full investigation, but to publish a safety digest.

The safety digest will shortly be made available on our website.

 

[Bedpan]

Is this because it is obvious from the outset that no blame attaches to the RH&DR and so no lessons to be learned by them?

 

[AndyPJG]

Is this because it is obvious from the outset that no blame attaches to the RH&DR and so no lessons to be learned by them?

RAIB do not apportion blame, they investigate the causes within their remit.

We are not a prosecuting body and do not apportion blame or liability. Our investigations are focused solely on improving safety and breaches of legislation are dealt with by other organisations; usually the police and safety authorities, none of their statutory duties have been changed by the creation of the RAIB.

 

[CosherB]

Whilst I will always be prepared to go right up to the line, but not cross it when legal matters are concerned, this looks like the kind of open and shut case that has afflicted this lovely little line before - and with fatal consequences too!

The circumstances of farm equipment and railway equipment have changed so much since the line opened that perhaps a different legal view needs to be taken. Look how a modern farm tractor with perhaps forty tons behind the drawbar towers above the train!

If the driver was an idiot and had stalled on the crossing then there needs to be the strongest charges possible and a custodial sentence to follow - and not before time!!!!

I'm sure you're outraged by this outcome. Obviously RAIB don't know what they're doing.