VTWC doors closing 4 minutes before departure

[Agent_Squash]

Hi,

A friend of mine was at Euston to catch a service up to Lancaster, however when he arrived 4 minutes before the service was due to depart (delays on Southern eat most of his interchange time), he was told by a member of staff that he had to be there 5 minutes before, yet I cannot find any reference to this and am sure that the doors close at 2 minutes?

Confused.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is meant to be 2, yes.

 

[E_Reeves]

I've noticed that when inside the train, you can't tell when the doors are closing. Especially on the Pendolinos. Also, to be safe, I like to be there at least 10 minutes before departure at large stations, such as Euston.

 

[trainophile]

Hi,

A friend of mine was at Euston to catch a service up to Lancaster, however when he arrived 4 minutes before the service was due to depart (delays on Southern eat most of his interchange time), he was told by a member of staff that he had to be there 5 minutes before, yet I cannot find any reference to this and am sure that the doors close at 2 minutes?

Confused.

It would be an interesting argument if he was using an Advance ticket, and was not permitted to take the next service.

 

[QueensCurve]

Hi,

A friend of mine was at Euston to catch a service up to Lancaster, however when he arrived 4 minutes before the service was due to depart (delays on Southern eat most of his interchange time), he was told by a member of staff that he had to be there 5 minutes before, yet I cannot find any reference to this and am sure that the doors close at 2 minutes?

Confused.

If a train has, say an xx:30 dep time, that is the time you should be able to board.

 

[ComUtoR]

If a train has, say an xx:30 dep time, that is the time you should be able to board.

Then the train would be late. If it departs at XX:30 then you should be on board before that time. When do you suggest the doors are closed and locked and then the train wheels are rolling ?

This discussion comes up quite frequently. There needs to be a cut off so that the train can leave on time.

 

[Domh245]

If a train has, say an xx:30 dep time, that is the time you should be able to board.

No no no no no. xx:30 is when the train departs the station. The onus is on you to be there with enough time to enable the train to leave at xx:30 on the dot (or be left behind)

 

[yorkie]

If a train has, say an xx:30 dep time, that is the time you should be able to board.

This has been done to death; we will never get concensus on that matter

 

[hounddog]

Then the train would be late. If it departs at XX:30 then you should be on board before that time. When do you suggest the doors are closed and locked and then the train wheels are rolling ?

This discussion comes up quite frequently. There needs to be a cut off so that the train can leave on time.

There *is* a published cut-off. How much earlier than that do you suggest I should arrive to allow for staff who can't read a clock or a timetable correctly?

 

[ainsworth74]

This has been done to death; we will never get concensus on that matter

Indeed! For example:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=51049
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=88854
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53282
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60823
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=113109

So I think we could probably do without rehashing it all again!

 

[AndyPJG]

Thought the OP's point was refusal of boarding more than the 2 minutes publicised by VT, being told 5 minutes?

 

[Agent_Squash]

Thought the OP's point was refusal of boarding more than the 2 minutes publicised by VT, being told 5 minutes?

That is correct.

 

[dk1]

I'm sure its all there in the conditions of carriage. Argue with it till you are blue in the face but if its covered & its the TOCs policy you either put up or shut up. Its done for a reason.

 

[Agent_Squash]

I'm sure its all there in the conditions of carriage. Argue with it till you are blue in the face but if its covered & its the TOCs policy you either put up or shut up. Its done for a reason.

I cannot find anything regarding the 5 minutes and as far I was aware and what I have experienced travelling through Euston, 2 minutes is the norm.

 

[The Growl]

My local company says they'll close doors 30 seconds in advance, unless they've changed that. But I would expect an accurate time of departure, in this case, 4 minutes in advance.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Thought the OP's point was refusal of boarding more than the 2 minutes publicised by VT, being told 5 minutes?

Indeed I think a customer service complaint would be worthwhile here.

 

[trainophile]

Does the "minimum connection time" (for any station) take account of doors closing a few minutes before departure?

 

[Agent_Squash]

Does the "minimum connection time" (for any station) take account of doors closing a few minutes before departure?

He had 40 minutes to transfer from Victoria, but Southern delays cut this down to 20.

 

[trainophile]

He had 40 minutes to transfer from Victoria, but Southern delays cut this down to 20.

I was asking generally, not about this specific incident.

 

[Flying Snail]

I thought the 2 minutes at Euston was the platform ramp doors not train doors, was I wrong about that?

I'm sure its all there in the conditions of carriage. Argue with it till you are blue in the face but if its covered & its the TOCs policy you either put up or shut up. Its done for a reason.

30 sec for train doors, possibly the 2 min at Euston but denying passengers at 5 minutes out is taking the proverbial.

Trains at Euston only being announced at around 5 minutes and still loading a full train for an on-time departure is not that unusual.

If true this sounds like another example of VT staff at Euston being actively obstructive towards passengers for no discernible reason, another thing that is not that unusual sadly.

 

[Ianno87]

I thought the 2 minutes at Euston was the platform ramp doors not train doors, was I wrong about that?



30 sec for train doors, possibly the 2 min at Euston but denying passengers at 5 minutes out is taking the proverbial.

Trains at Euston only being announced at around 5 minutes and still loading a full train for an on-time departure is not that unusual.

If true this sounds like another example of VT staff at Euston being actively obstructive towards passengers for no discernible reason, another thing that is not that unusual sadly.

I'm sure that in the event that:
-The platform ramp doors have closed 2 mins before, and
-There are no passengers still on the platform, and
-There is a proceed aspect on the platform starter signal

..then the staff at Euston will start the dispatch procedure more than 30 seconds before. I've had some *very* prompt departures from Euston in my time

 

[Flying Snail]

I'm sure that in the event that:
-The platform ramp doors have closed 2 mins before, and
-There are no passengers still on the platform, and
-There is a proceed aspect on the platform starter signal

..then the staff at Euston will start the dispatch procedure more than 30 seconds before. I've had some *very* prompt departures from Euston in my time

The Scotland via BHM is only 3 minutes behind the preceding MAN service, The Glasgow via Trent Valley is 7 behind the preceding BHM but as that stops at Watford Jct the headway is closed to around 3 minutes from there to Rugby, any more than 2-2.5 min early departure and it would be checked approaching WFJ anyway.

 

[AlterEgo]

If a train has, say an xx:30 dep time, that is the time you should be able to board.

It's the departure time. If I have a flight that is at 10:30 I need to be on the plane a lot before that. It's a long distance train. Two minutes is not unreasonable.

 

[bb21]

If a train has, say an xx:30 dep time, that is the time you should be able to board.

No, you should not. If I am on the train, I expect the wheels to be rolling on the dot, and I suspect so do the other 500 people on my train.

Get there in good time or deal with it. Life does not revolve around you. All stations have posters advising of the door closing time, and it is hardly rare knowledge unless one had never been to a station before.

 

[ComUtoR]

There *is* a published cut-off. How much earlier than that do you suggest I should arrive to allow for staff who can't read a clock or a timetable correctly?

I'd leave a comfortable 15 minutes minimum. I'm usually pretty early or on time. I make allowances for others and make sure that I am not at fault or that I am prepared for any eventuality.

If I left it that tight that potentially I would miss my train then it would be my fault. Fail to plan and all that.

 

[AndyPJG]

I cannot find anything regarding the 5 minutes and as far I was aware and what I have experienced travelling through Euston, 2 minutes is the norm.

Exactly, and usually the 'hustle' please board now announcement is only about 3 minutes before due departure even for VT at Euston.

Again, as thread is going off exact topic:-

Thought the OP's point was refusal of boarding more than the 2 minutes publicised by VT, being told 5 minutes?

 

[47802]

This has been done to death; we will never get concensus on that matter

True, however I strongly believe that if a train departs at xx:30 that's when the doors shut and not some random period beforehand which varies not only between the train operators but also the same operators at different stations and I expect if you asked most passengers they would agree with the above. if needed adjust the timetable accordingly to accommodate that.

At the very least have a standardised figure eg 1min for Intercity trains and 30seconds for regional trains.

 

[Chrism20]

When I got off the train from Edinburgh at about half four yesterday there were announcements being played saying Virgin two minutes and London Midland thirty seconds at Euston.

 

[47802]

True, however I strongly believe that if a train departs at xx:30 that's when the doors shut and not some random period beforehand which varies not only between the train operators but also the same operators at different stations and I expect if you asked most passengers they would agree with the above. if needed adjust the timetable accordingly to accommodate that.

At the very least have a standardised figure eg 1min for Intercity trains and 30seconds for regional trains.

How many trains have I been on of late and they have cleared the platforms by departure time.

 

[theironroad]

Hi,

A friend of mine was at Euston to catch a service up to Lancaster, however when he arrived 4 minutes before the service was due to depart (delays on Southern eat most of his interchange time), he was told by a member of staff that he had to be there 5 minutes before, yet I cannot find any reference to this and am sure that the doors close at 2 minutes?

Confused.

I think your friend may have exaggerated the time he was tgefe before departure or his phone/watch was wrong.

I'd be very surprised if he couldn't board 4mims before departure.

My toc has a 30s policy, the guard will start the door closing procedure 30s before the timed departure. The aim is for the wheels to be rolling by the xx00.

So scheduled departure is 16:22 then the guard blows whistle at 1621:30 and then aim is the train is moving by 1622:00...