Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[RichardKing]

Of course it's not that simple. The change is merely staff selling tickets will be selling them out on the concourse rather than from behind a ticket window. Although there may be a reduction in the hours that a ticket window in the ticket office is open, there is an increase in the hours during which tickets can be sold face to face as they will still be available from staff out on the concourse.

However, organized crime gangs are then given more of a chance to strike (no pun intended ) as there is nothing to protect the staff the money about their person. Obviously, GTR could introduce a really secure pouch to put the money in (quite doubtful considering the reputation they currently have with regards of attitudes towards staff), but criminals will always find a way to get around it. Obviously, you can't have BTP officers at every station, and it only takes a matter of seconds to assault someone (made worse at night when not many people will be around to intervene/call the Police).

Also, how will 'station hosts' be able to give information about really complicated journeys and the fares associated with them without having a computer in front of them? Sure, they can be equipped with some sort of smartphone, but using that will certainly not be as quick as using a computer (and there is then the chance of that being stolen as well!).

 

[WatcherZero]

Drop safe?

Frankly a host of other businesses manage staff carrying money and change. I don't think you could argue they will be any more exposed than bus drivers.

 

[RichardKing]

Drop safe?

Frankly a host of other businesses manage staff carrying money and change. I don't think you could argue they will be any more exposed than bus drivers.

Don't most busses have a window between the passengers and the driver, with a little space underneath to pass money and, in return, tickets through (similarly to a ticket office)?

I still believe that criminal gangs will take advantage of the fact that large sums of money is being carried around on platforms/in ticket offices, without any real form of protection (unless, as I say, GTR pull something rather large out of the bag!). Also, if I was to go up to a host with £70 worth of delay repay voucher, for example, would they be able to change them for money? How vulnerable would they be after a rather large cash exchange like that?

 

[Muzer]

Don't most busses have a window between the passengers and the driver, with a little space underneath to pass money and, in return, tickets through (similarly to a ticket office)?

Only in scummy cities! Even Southampton doesn't have this (on Bluestar — First does but it's a scummy operator!)

 

[RichardKing]

Only in scummy cities! Even Southampton doesn't have this (on Bluestar — First does but it's a scummy operator!)

Ah, fair enough. I know all busses in London have the glass window, so I assumed that was the case nationwide!

 

[Carlisle]

Don't most busses have a window between the passengers and the driver, with a little space underneath to pass money and, in return, tickets through (similarly to a ticket office)?
?

In some cities like Birmingham and Glasgow for example most busses don't give change, presumably as an additional security measure

 

[infobleep]

In some cities like Birmingham and Glasgow for example most busses don't give change, presumably as an additional security measure

That caught me out once as it isn't that well advertised on the buses. Perhaps to generate more revenue for the bus companies!

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[SpacePhoenix]

Buses in London don't give out change, they don't accept cash! Is London the only place in the UK where buses don't accept cash?

 

[WatcherZero]

Buses in London don't give out change, they don't accept cash! Is London the only place in the UK where buses don't accept cash?

Yes but it was a cost saving thing since it was flat fares anyway. Coins are heavy and transporting them to the bank and keeping change around has a surprisingly large overhead for a business.

There are a few Ticket Vending Machines around the country which don't accept cash, but mainly to speed up transaction time as an express channel and usually have a machine which does accept cash next to them.

 

[Bishopstone]

Hourly train service to Seaford apparently re-commencing towards the end of September, with the full half-hourly service back in situ by the end of October.

Buses to supplement the initial hourly service.

 

[Kite159]

Have I read RTT correct and the hourly Southampton - Brighton services are re-commencing from late September? (checked 26th Sept).

(If so, I'm happy at that saves diverting via Three Bridges to get to Brighton that Monday for an event)

 

[PHILIPE]

In some cities like Birmingham and Glasgow for example most busses don't give change, presumably as an additional security measure

Cardiff also

 

[infobleep]

I see the tomorrow evening between 17-18 there are not many trains from East Croydon to Brighton.

When this was the case during the last stole, they stopped a Gatwick Express additionally at Clapham Junction and East Croydon on the Wednesday, in addition to the one that is booked to stop. However on the Thursday they didn't and it's not due to stop tomorrow.

They could make a late change but I think it unlikely.

Why they could only do that the once or at least not since that Wednesday I don't know.

How much impact would it have on the timetable, given its a strike timetable as it is. It would add some minutes on but it must have done just that on that very Wednesday.

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I see the there is a 17.30 from Victoria which is stopping at East Croydon. I assumed this would be a Gatwick Express service but it's actually a Southern service according to National Rail Enquiries App online departure board.

However if I search for tomorrow it's a Gatwick Express service which isn't stopping at East Croydon!

To days train is also listed as being delayed due to strike action. So clearly they are happy to stop at Clapham Junction and East Croydon even though it's going to be delayed!

They did this last strike Wednesday. Then I was lucky that it ran. Today I left earlier because it wasn't running only to now find it is.

Why can't it be added the the strike timetable. Why the last minute addition. If being delayed is an issue why is it still stopping at Clapham Junction and East Croydon, given its going to be delayed!

Are they doing this to put passengers off travelling or is it just Govia incompetence?

May be someone can explain why it can only be added late and not in advance.

Note aReal Time Trains doesn't list Clapham Junction and East Croydon as they are late additions but National Rail Enquiries do.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X17634/2016/09/07/advanced

In addition to that, the singaler switched the 17.19 to platform 5, from platform 3, and no one was told until they saw it pull in. As people started to run in case they missed it, it got announced but it wasn't easy to hear the announcement unless one was by a a speaker as it wasn't that loud an announcement. It may be that the screen was updated as it pulled in but I wasn't standing by a screen as I'm sure many others were not, so they would relief on an announcement.

I see the train then preceeded to wait at East Croydon.

I assume they were waiting for passengers to be able to board it. Not as if so many trains are running so hold it up.

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Surprise surprise the 17.30 has left on time and the note about delays removed.

Makes the omission of Clapham Junction and East Croydon even more baffling. No point in asking Southern Twitter team, they wouldn't know.

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[Bishopstone]

Makes the omission of Clapham Junction and East Croydon even more baffling. No point in asking Southern Twitter team, they wouldn't know.

Two potential reasons for not stopping GatEx at Clapham and East Croydon:

1. A belief the train (especially the Brighton extensions) would already be full of longer distance travellers, whereas those hopping between stations in the TfL area have other travel options.

2. The premium pricing of GatEx as an advertised non-stop service in 30 minutes, makes it difficult to deny partial refunds (down to the 'Southern' fare) when passengers complain the train stopped twice, was packed, and took 45 minutes just like the non-premium alternatives do.

 

[infobleep]

Two potential reasons for not stopping GatEx at Clapham and East Croydon:

1. A belief the train (especially the Brighton extensions) would already be full of longer distance travellers, whereas those hopping between stations in the TfL area have other travel options.

2. The premium pricing of GatEx as an advertised non-stop service in 30 minutes, makes it difficult to deny partial refunds (down to the 'Southern' fare) when passengers complain the train stopped twice, was packed, and took 45 minutes just like the non-premium alternatives do.

Well the 17.42 was timetabled to stop at Clapham Junction and East Croydon and that is a Gatwick Express service. So if they can timetable that one during the strikes, why not the 17.30, which did stop there anyway.

I asked Southern on Twitter and they kindly confirmed it was an amendment to the service. So I asked why couldn't it be written into the timetable in advance. I got no reply to that.

To be fair all they could do, if they had done anything, was to pass it on as a suggestion and I imagine it would fall on deaf ears. Of course may be I'm being too cynical.

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[maniacmartin]

2. The premium pricing of GatEx as an advertised non-stop service in 30 minutes, makes it difficult to deny partial refunds (down to the 'Southern' fare) when passengers complain the train stopped twice, was packed, and took 45 minutes just like the non-premium alternatives do.

The disparity of the advertised speed and the reality in the past few months has also been brought to the attention of the Advertising Standards Authority, who I understand have contacted GTR about it, so I can understand why they are not keen to add extra stops in

 

[blotred]

The 1904 and 1919 (from memory, they aren't on RTT) from Clapham Junction were both advertised as Gatwick Express stopping at Clapham Junction and East Croydon as well.
Both were 5 cars as well, which was mental.

 

[Deepgreen]

However, organized crime gangs are then given more of a chance to strike (no pun intended ) as there is nothing to protect the staff the money about their person. Obviously, GTR could introduce a really secure pouch to put the money in (quite doubtful considering the reputation they currently have with regards of attitudes towards staff), but criminals will always find a way to get around it. Obviously, you can't have BTP officers at every station, and it only takes a matter of seconds to assault someone (made worse at night when not many people will be around to intervene/call the Police).

Also, how will 'station hosts' be able to give information about really complicated journeys and the fares associated with them without having a computer in front of them? Sure, they can be equipped with some sort of smartphone, but using that will certainly not be as quick as using a computer (and there is then the chance of that being stolen as well!).

They won't be interested in this - revenue is irrelevant under the fixed fee they enjoy, and their attitude to staff well-being is already well known.

 

[infobleep]

The disparity of the advertised speed and the reality in the past few months has also been brought to the attention of the Advertising Standards Authority, who I understand have contacted GTR about it, so I can understand why they are not keen to add extra stops in

Yet that is just want they have been doing for some services and for others, simply changing it at the last minute.

Perhaps they know they need to change get it but don't wish to in advance due to the advertising standards agency. May be there are only so many trains that can run slower. Of course they would never publicly which to admit that.

The 1904 and 1919 (from memory, they aren't on RTT) from Clapham Junction were both advertised as Gatwick Express stopping at Clapham Junction and East Croydon as well.
Both were 5 cars as well, which was mental.

That is interesting. I'll be looking at the online live departure boards this evening with interest. Currently the 17.30 isn't due to stop at East Croydon according to the National Rail Enquiries App online departure board. It's also not going to be delayed due to the strike.

My be it's only a change they make at the last minute during a strike timetable period on Wednesday. Strike any other day and it doesn't get amended. I joke of course.

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[Deepgreen]

The disparity of the advertised speed and the reality in the past few months has also been brought to the attention of the Advertising Standards Authority, who I understand have contacted GTR about it, so I can understand why they are not keen to add extra stops in

The ASA are also to be involved in a vaguely parallel case, where the summer Bristol to Weymouth GWR 'Weymouth Wizard' workings are described by GWR as 'High Speed Trains' but which apparently take longer for the journey than the conventional DMUs! The use of the term 'High Speed Train' referring to the train type (class 253s, etc.), rather than its performance on the workings has been deemed misleading.

 

[Starmill]

Welcome aboard the 1730 Gatwick Express service to Brighton, calling at Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Gatwick Airport, Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill, Preston Park and Brighton.

This is coach number 2 of 12. We are sorry to report that this train is full and standing.

Very express this evening eh!

In addition, I think most people don't realise First Class has been declassified.

Oh wow. Yup this is bad. Clapham Junction is a war zone!!!

 

[Starmill]

Reporting live from the 1730. Don't get left behind!

 

[tsr]

But the 1826 GatEx from Victoria is expected to be 4 vice 8/387... hmmm! I believe it may only be calling at Gatwick Airport, though. That'd be sensible in the circumstances.

 

[infobleep]

Reporting live from the 1730. Don't get left behind!

Cheers for posting this.

So sure enough they amended the service so it would stop at Clapham Junction and East Croydon.

Defintely something fishy going on or they are just incompetent. It must be possible to amend a timetable before it is published. Surely they are not set in stone. Perhaps someone can confirm this?

May be they are employing a strategy of running it but not telling people to far in advance so it does get so rammed.

From now on in all future strikes I will be assuming it runs, if I ever wish to travel at that time and perhaps I'll moan at them if it doesn't. I'll say, you didn't give enough warning that it wouldn't be added in tonight. Lol.

It only seems to be the Brighton extensions that get their schedule amended, excluding those which are already in the timetable to stop there.

Tonight National Rail Enquiries are listing it as a Gatwick Express service. Last night it got transformed into a Southern service. It might as well be that.

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[Bishopstone]

Tonbridge/Reigate - Victoria off-peak through services restored from 19 September. (per Southern website)

 

[Starmill]

Has any further strike action been 'booked in' yet? If not, is it likely? I'm surprised this thread is so quiet! Is this a sign chaos has been lessening?

 

[Deepgreen]

Tonbridge/Reigate - Victoria off-peak through services restored from 19 September. (per Southern website)

Indeed, but, given their inability still to operate even the emergency timetable, I hold out little hope of any improvement when this happens!
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The Redhill staff again excelled themselves this morning. Significant disruption occurred but there was not a word of explanation as to why from anyone:

The 0841 to London Bridge was shown as on time and then progressively as being later and later, and then to be terminating at East Croydon - not a single word about this. It arrived as two portions and the recorded announcement continued that "this train is not in service", as people piled aboard!

The 0853 to Victoria was delayed outside the station awaiting the interminable coupling process to complete, and then arrived as a four car train! Why aren't all trains in the emergency timetable at least 8 cars as a matter of course - the spare stock must be there to enable this? It was very full when it arrived, and left, Corbyn-style "ram-packed"! For the first time, I had to stand (first class) all the way to Victoria (yes, I know - 'first world problems'!), amid a mass of luggage from Gatwick passengers. Not a word from the station staff or the train crew about the short formation. The lack of train length information displayed at Redhill was raised (by me) over two years ago, when I was told that they were working on a solution. Nothing has happened (presumably it involves spending money), so passengers expecting a 12 or 8 car train have to dash down the four car mark when it dawns on them that the train is short. Again - not a word from the station staff.

The 0852 Reigate train got the green at about 0850, and a station staff member made his way along the platform to despatch it, but, from what I overheard from the 6 or 7 staff hanging around by the cab, it needed someone from a down train to drive it. It left at 0857, also with not a single word broadcast about it.

Meanwhile, recorded announcements were sounding out about trains not being service (when they obviously were) and not a word of correction was to be heard.

An absolute disgrace on all fronts, and Southern claim to be reinstating the full Redhill service form Monday - some hope!

 

[jha4ceb]

The 0853 to Victoria was delayed outside the station awaiting the interminable coupling process to complete, and then arrived as a four car train! Why aren't all trains in the emergency timetable at least 8 cars as a matter of course - the spare stock must be there to enable this? It was very full when it arrived, and left, Corbyn-style "ram-packed"! For the first time, I had to stand (first class) all the way to Victoria (yes, I know - 'first world problems'!), amid a mass of luggage from Gatwick passengers. Not a word from the station staff or the train crew about the short formation. The lack of train length information displayed at Redhill was raised (by me) over two years ago, when I was told that they were working on a solution. Nothing has happened (presumably it involves spending money), so passengers expecting a 12 or 8 car train have to dash down the four car mark when it dawns on them that the train is short. Again - not a word from the station staff.

I sometimes get this service as the 0911 from East Croydon. It's been four coaches routinely recently, but I don't get it often enough to know if this is standard. There is never an apology for short formation, anyway.

It comes after a 13 minute gap in Victoria trains at East Croydon, so an already-full four car provision is completely inadequate.

 

[Sprinter153]

The 0852 Reigate train got the green at about 0850, and a station staff member made his way along the platform to despatch it, but, from what I overheard from the 6 or 7 staff hanging around by the cab, it needed someone from a down train to drive it. It left at 0857, also with not a single word broadcast about it.

I agree with your points, information at Redhill is poor, largely due to a dated and poorly functioning CIS and a lack of will from some of the staff based there. I think it's got worse during the current disputes, staff are taking more and more abuse and as a result are perhaps a bit less happy to tell people what they want to hear. I don't really think that excuses it but both sides are being let down at the moment, staff and passenger.

 

[Deepgreen]

I agree with your points, information at Redhill is poor, largely due to a dated and poorly functioning CIS and a lack of will from some of the staff based there. I think it's got worse during the current disputes, staff are taking more and more abuse and as a result are perhaps a bit less happy to tell people what they want to hear. I don't really think that excuses it but both sides are being let down at the moment, staff and passenger.

I think your point about staff being let down is valid, but, in my experience, the staff at Redhill have always been lack-lustre, to say the least, with one shining exception a few months ago, but that person seems to have (been) moved on. Given the nodal function of the station, and its awkward and complicated operating characteristics, it would be helpful to have staff there who are motivated, experienced and able (or does that combination no longer exist at Southern?!).