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Chinese people holding racially prejudiced views

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Johnuk123

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From the Daily Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ns-on-londons-indian-pakistani-and-black-nei/

China's national carrier is embroiled in a race row after its inflight magazine carried a warning that visitors to London should avoid ethnic minority areas. Air China’s Wings of China magazine said the British capital was generally safe, but warned “precautions are needed when entering areas mainly populated by Indians, Pakistanis and black people.”
It was carried in English and Chinese in an article about London’s attractions under the headline "Tips from Air China”.
The following sentence added: "We advise tourists not to go out alone at night, and females always to be accompanied by another person when traveling."
Air China is only advising passengers to be aware that London like a few British cities has some areas where you need to be very careful after dark, I doubt that labour's Allin Khan wanders around alone at night in the areas awash with gang violence. The Foreign Office gives out travel guidance, surely the Chinese are also entitled to provide guidance to their citizens. The bit about not going into Indian areas is definitely wrong as they are generally safer than the areas of London with all the gang crime.
I don't agree with the idea that the advice is racist more slightly misguided.

The thread title is nothing to do with me as it actually says something I'm not saying.
 
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Johnuk123

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The reported facts are quite true, although tbf the younger generation are much more tolerant of many things than the older generation, just like the UK really.

This deserves its own separate thread so I have separated it out.

.....
 
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AlterEgo

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Why? You started it, in a totally unrelated thread about how a girl monetised the Chinese's wishes to have anglicised names.
 

J-2739

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Some of you may have seen a very racist Chinese TV advert for washing powder on Youtube recently which was absolutely disgraceful.

I've seen that one. Is it that one where the Chinese woman shoves the black man in the washing machine?

Somehow, I saw the funny side of it! :) sorry...
 
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Harbornite

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Some of you may have seen a very racist Chinese TV advert for washing powder on Youtube recently which was absolutely disgraceful.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Looks like the thread is alive and kicking :)

Yeah I saw that. You'd get slaughtered for making something like that in the UK, USA etc.
 

J-2739

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Just out of interest what exactly made you laugh?

I'm not sure if I can exactly explain it, but it might just be I've never see anything like it, and that's just taking racism to a new level. At first, I was a bit offended (I'm black by the way), but later on, I saw the funny side. Dark humor much?
 
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Harbornite

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I think one of the problems with China and Japan is that they are more racially homogeneous. Some black people have spoken of unusual treatment in Japan, they have been treated as objects of curiosity by some locals.
 

bb21

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I think one of the problems with China and Japan is that they are more racially homogeneous. Some black people have spoken of unusual treatment in Japan, they have been treated as objects of curiosity by some locals.

A lot of Japanese people tend to look down on everyone else. The ambition to conquer the world has never died with some people, many in the military, making them exceptionally dangerous.
 

Phil.

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Well two out of three isn't bad. I'd be happy walking alone at night in an Indian area but I'd think twice before wandering alone at night in the other two.
 

TheKnightWho

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Well two out of three isn't bad. I'd be happy walking alone at night in an Indian area but I'd think twice before wandering alone at night in the other two.

Is this one of the most racist comments we've had on RailUKForums in recent times?
 

bb21

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Well two out of three isn't bad. I'd be happy walking alone at night in an Indian area but I'd think twice before wandering alone at night in the other two.

Perhaps you could elaborate on that so that others can see how much merit this comment has?
 

Harbornite

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Well two out of three isn't bad. I'd be happy walking alone at night in an Indian area but I'd think twice before wandering alone at night in the other two.

That's a bit sterotypical and racist to say the least. Are you suggesting that all Pakistanis and black people are somehow worse than all Indians?
 

Harbornite

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A lot of Japanese people tend to look down on everyone else. The ambition to conquer the world has never died with some people, many in the military, making them exceptionally dangerous.

Indeed, more so than Germany to a degree. There is a nationalist movement in Japan that refuses to accept blame for what Japan did during the Second World war and before (you know you must have been bad when there were Nazis condemning your actions).

I was reading about an old lady recently in Japan who died in 2011. She was a relatively important political figure and held similar views to the ones I've mentioned.


This article deals with Japan's race issues:

JAPAN'S PROBLEM WITH RACE
Bands appear in blackface, Koreans are threatened with the gas chamber, and the Japanese N-word is commonplace.

In most developed nations, issues of race occupy headlines and are components, unstated or overt, of nearly every conversation about policymaking—whether the topic is public housing in France, crime in Brazil or the inheritance tax in the United States. Mostly, the topic’s relevance to the issue is framed in matters of promoting harmony and expanding opportunity.

Get the magazine, the app and full web access from £1 a week
There are, however, notable exceptions. Japan, a pillar of technological development and progress, has yet to address race as a pressing national issue. The racial discrimination that exists in Japan is reminiscent of the segregation-based atmosphere of 1950s America, posing a hostile environment for those of non-Japanese origin.

One of the more prominent victims of Japan’s ingrained discrimination is Ariana Miyamoto, who represents Japan in the 2015 Miss Universe competition. Miyamoto, the daughter of a Japanese mother and an African-American father, is categorized as hafu, a Japanese term and *******ization of the English word half, indicating someone who is mixed race.

Growing up in Japan, Miyamoto found her skin tone and curly hair caused others to shun her; classmates and their parents referred to her as kurombo, the Japanese equivalent of the N-word. Rather than identifying solely as black or Japanese, Miyamoto instead chooses to present herself as a representative of all ethnically and racially mixed Japanese. Her participation in the Miss Universe pageant opens the door for hafus to be accepted as part of Japanese society, and changes what it means to act and appear “Japanese.”

Reactions from the Japanese public have been less than kind. Posts on social media read, “Is it OK to select a hafu to represent Japan?”; “Miss Universe Japan is…what? What kind of person is she? She’s not Japanese, right?”; and “Even though she’s Miss Universe Japan, her face is foreign no matter how you look at it.”

The issues surrounding hafus run deeper than social acceptance—they face legal hurdles as well. Regardless of their ethnicity, children with dual citizenship (Japan and another country) must choose one nation or the other once they turn 22d. This mandate is based solely on suspicions that force individuals to base their loyalty with Japan or another country should international tensions arise.

The ruling was introduced in a 1984 amendment to define Japan as a jus sanguinis country, one that bases citizenship on blood, not birthplace. This makes it all the more difficult for hafus to strike a balance when embracing their mixed heritage with a Japanese upbringing.

Japan’s racial problems extend beyond mixed-race citizens to include discrimination against foreigners as a whole. Earlier this year, members of the Japanese bands Momoiro Clover Z and Rats & Star posed in blackface for a promotional photo for a performance on Fuji TV. The photo went viral after the hashtag “ #StopBlackfaceJapan” was popularized on Twitter, and a Change.org petition pressured the station to stop the performance.

The petition seems to have worked, but the incident is a reflection of Japan’s blindness to its own racism. It’s worth noting that Japan has also had high-profile cases of whiteface, which again shows the distance between Japanese citizens and those seen as foreign.

Japan’s treatment of non-black minorities reflects additional deeply ingrained racist tendencies. In 2013, a group of nationalists led protests expressing their hatred of Koreans and threatened to flatten Tokyo’s Koreatown and replace it with a gas chamber. “Go home and die,” some of the demonstrators yelled. Authorities were aware of the threats, but because Japan does not prohibit hate speech, the discriminatory actions continued unabated.

Although cases of extreme racism exist globally, Japan is notable for its lack of dialogue about racism and the absence of meaningful change to protect people against discrimination. Japan sees itself as a homogenous nation. It has one of the least ethnically diverse populations in the world, and the country’s overwhelming homogeneity means that any Japanese citizens who are not 100 percent ethnically Japanese are seen as foreign in their own homeland.

Change will take time. The ingrained insularity and rejection of foreigners have been a part of Japan’s history dating back to at least 1639, when the ruling Tokugawa shogunate cut Japan off from the rest of the world. Though centuries have passed, the ideas of racial superiority and separatism are still deeply influential in the national mindset.

This history reveals itself in the Japanese language as well, where the term for foreigner, gaijin, translates to “outside person,” which allows no possibility of integration for non-Japanese.

Japan’s geography further deters any hope of inclusion, a version of what is dubbed as the “Galápagos effect.” Originally coined in reference to the differences between Japanese cellphones and those used in the Western world, here the term refers to a nation that has been deeply isolated from foreign influence for a considerable amount of time, so much so that it has branched off evolutionarily (hence the name, a nod to Darwin’s travels). Japan, a collection of islands off the coast of mainland Asia, has developed its own values and a national agenda that tends toward the esoteric.

Still, Japan must reform cultural obstacles if it wishes to build a sustainable future in an increasingly multicultural world. Japan’s birth rate is falling, and the population is aging, setting up a shortage in the national labor force. In the hopes of fixing this problem, Japan has loosened its immigration policies to allow more workers into the job market and make up for the lagging birth rate.

Even so, any first-generation Japanese would arrive to find a cultural and political climate that is still deeply inhospitable to foreigners. In February 2015, a former adviser to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe suggested that apartheid would be the best solution for keeping foreigners separate and retaining Japanese racial purity.

It may take a while for change to come. In the meantime, Ariana Miyamoto uses her status as Miss Japan to fight for the unrecognized and discriminated segment of her country’s population. She hopes to put a new face on Japan, one that is diverse, defiant and depictive of its future.

http://europe.newsweek.com/why-does-no-one-care-japanese-are-openly-racist-331765?rm=eu


Here's an extract from an article from cracked, one of my other favourite sites.


That being said, once you actually got the whole language thing down, you might expect to finally be able to integrate yourself into Japanese society and thrive, right? Well, here's how it was with me: I've been coming to Japan for nearly a decade, my wife is Japanese, I speak the language fluently, I know the culture inside and out, and yet I'm still "that foreign guy" to most people here (even the ones who have known me for close to 10 years).

Japan is one of the most homogenous nations on Earth -- roughly 98 percent of the population is ethnically Japanese. No matter what you do to try and fit in, you will always stick out like a sore thumb in a room full of people who have had their thumbs removed by rototillers.

For instance, one of the biggest hot button issues in Japan concerns people of Korean ancestry who live in the country. In most cases, these are people who were born in Japan, have Japanese names and speak almost exclusively Japanese, but because of their Korean lineage, they are still legally considered foreigners and as such face several restrictions (such as the inability to vote or hold management positions in the public sector, a law that the Supreme Court actually upheld in 2005). The government literally decided that all Koreans are dastardly ****heads who are not to be trusted and mandated it to the entire country.

So now ask yourself this -- if the Koreans in this example (who by all rights should be full Japanese citizens were it not for ethnic prejudice) are given the same treatment as convicted felons, what chance does a white kid in a Gundam T-shirt have to not be considered a complete outcast?

I'm not saying that every single person in Japan hates foreigners, but if you live here, you will be constantly reminded that you are most decidedly not Japanese, nor are you likely to spontaneously become so. Still, it's a small price to pay to live in a place as outlandishly crazy and fun as Japan, right?

http://www.cracked.com/article_20118_5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-living-in-japan.html







That's enough from me about Japan, I just think it's relevant because the racial issues that exist in China are similar to those of Japan.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not afraid, apprehensive. Wait until you're 66 and then comment again.

Care to elaborate?
 
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Tetchytyke

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It's an awful thing to say, but I'm prepared to give Air China the benefit of the doubt and assume they meant to say avoid Southall, Whitechapel and Edmonton.

And certainly in the case of Edmonton, I'd say that it wasn't all that unreasonable...
 

Rapidash

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I was going to say you dont see many non-white faces down here, which could make someone scared or afraid purely out of ignorance, or lack of of exposure.

Then I remembered I went to school with lads and lasses from from South America, the Middle east, Africa and Europe. This was deepest darkest Devon in the early 90's mind. Penzance might not have yet have a group of budding Britons of Brazillian or Iranian backgrounds.

Mores the pity, the foods good!
 

AlterEgo

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Is this one of the most racist comments we've had on RailUKForums in recent times?

To be fair he's only saying what a lot of people think.

Given the choice, I would rather walk down the streets of a white working class ghetto than somewhere like Edmonton. Almost all people are racially prejudiced in some form or other, some of which is logical, some of which is quite irrational.

Immediately running up to someone like an enraged referee, whistling loudly and brandishing the racist card reminds me of:

TheKnightWho said:
I know some of us need to feel superior to others to cope with getting through life
 

TheKnightWho

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To be fair he's only saying what a lot of people think.

Given the choice, I would rather walk down the streets of a white working class ghetto than somewhere like Edmonton. Almost all people are racially prejudiced in some form or other, some of which is logical, some of which is quite irrational.

Immediately running up to someone like an enraged referee, whistling loudly and brandishing the racist card reminds me of:

I don't care if it's what a lot of people think: being apprehensive or thinking you'll be in danger because you'd be around black people is practically the very definition of racism.

It's not "brandishing the racist card" - it does make me wonder how bad it has to get before some people consider it 'acceptable' to call something racist! If you're more outraged by someone calling out racism than racism itself then you need to have a good, hard think about why that is.
 
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Gelliant

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I'm not sure if self-righteous finger-wagging is the best way to deal with racism.
 

AlterEgo

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I don't care if it's what a lot of people think: being apprehensive or thinking you'll be in danger because you'd be around black people is practically the very definition of racism.

It's not "brandishing the racist card" - it does make me wonder how bad it has to get before some people consider it 'acceptable' to call something racist! If you're more outraged by someone calling out racism than racism itself then you need to have a good, hard think about why that is.

I was quite clear in my post that pretty much everyone has racial prejudices. How they manifest themselves and the severity of them depend on a number of factors. Prejudices and stereotypes are human nature (and a learned behaviour), but we should take active steps to limit the effect of them.

There are many reasons someone might not want to walk in "a black neighbourhood". There may be a demonstrably higher crime rate, or there might be a trend of gun crime. These factors might affect any neighbourhood regardless of the demographic involved, but to suggest that the incidence of violent crime amongst all demographics and all geographies is consistent would be a fallacy. I have no idea what the crime rates are on the Moss Side, Toxteth, Small Heath or Edmonton.

The fear of some self-righteous person saying "RACIST!!!" is totally counterproductive to having a healthy debate. In fact, the constant stream of racist accusations levelled at people opposed to immigration is one of the factors influencing the Brexit referendum result, I'm sure. We are certainly paying the price for being unable to have a sensible and informed national debate on immigration!

I note carefully that you've not denounced people suggesting that Japanese or Chinese people have racist prejudices as being racist in itself. Why? Because it isn't necessarily the case. There are reasons that people have explained why those people may (or may not) have racial prejudices. That doesn't make them good or bad people, or better or worse than ourselves, just different.

Phil may be right or he may be wrong, but the fact is, it's much better to come at him with facts or reason rather than insulting him and saying he's a racist. Deciding to walk down the Falls Road rather than the Shankill (or vice versa) in Belfast does not make one a sectarian bigot.

Your consistent attempts to unsuccessfully patronise other posters and elevate your own personal standards above others is illuminating.

Perhaps you might care to engage in debate rather than calling people racist? (I can hear you googling local crime statistics from here! ;) )
 

TheKnightWho

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I was quite clear in my post that pretty much everyone has racial prejudices. How they manifest themselves and the severity of them depend on a number of factors. Prejudices and stereotypes are human nature (and a learned behaviour), but we should take active steps to limit the effect of them.

There are many reasons someone might not want to walk in "a black neighbourhood". There may be a demonstrably higher crime rate, or there might be a trend of gun crime. These factors might affect any neighbourhood regardless of the demographic involved, but to suggest that the incidence of violent crime amongst all demographics and all geographies is consistent would be a fallacy. I have no idea what the crime rates are on the Moss Side, Toxteth, Small Heath or Edmonton.

The fear of some self-righteous person saying "RACIST!!!" is totally counterproductive to having a healthy debate. In fact, the constant stream of racist accusations levelled at people opposed to immigration is one of the factors influencing the Brexit referendum result, I'm sure. We are certainly paying the price for being unable to have a sensible and informed national debate on immigration!

I note carefully that you've not denounced people suggesting that Japanese or Chinese people have racist prejudices as being racist in itself. Why? Because it isn't necessarily the case. There are reasons that people have explained why those people may (or may not) have racial prejudices. That doesn't make them good or bad people, or better or worse than ourselves, just different.

Phil may be right or he may be wrong, but the fact is, it's much better to come at him with facts or reason rather than insulting him and saying he's a racist. Deciding to walk down the Falls Road rather than the Shankill (or vice versa) in Belfast does not make one a sectarian bigot.

Your consistent attempts to unsuccessfully patronise other posters and elevate your own personal standards above others is illuminating.

Perhaps you might care to engage in debate rather than calling people racist? (I can hear you googling local crime statistics from here! ;) )

Justifying racism on the basis that more people commit crimes in poorer neighbourhoods does not make it any more acceptable. Segregation in America was justified on the same premise. The fact that those neighbourhoods are overwhelmingly poorer and more deprived, combined with the fact that poorer white neighbourhoods have similar levels of crime, always seems to escape people.

When someone like Phil. says they don't want to go into a neighbourhoods because they contain Pakistani or black people, the focus there is on the race, and not on crime, wealth or any other factor which you're trying to crowbar in with your apologism. To say that "he might be right or he might be wrong" is absurd: you're literally trying to justify someone doing what is the very definition of racism.

And no, saying that "pretty much everyone has racial prejudices" doesn't change anything at all: 1) the ones on display here are overt and can be explicitly condemned for what they are, and 2) they are considerably stronger than those of most people, which are usually something they don't realise they have or come from well-meaning ignorance.

If you feel the need to defend someone's racist views, you should really ask yourself why that is. Why should the feelings of someone who feels prejudiced be prioritised by those who have to deal with such prejudices every day? Calling someone racist is in fact engaging in debate, when it is paired with an explanation; painting me as some shouting moron who hasn't said anything else is simply disingenuous and false. If you can only see it as an insult and can't think why the accusation might have merit then that is concerning, because it makes calling out overt racial prejudice such as seen here difficult to combat, because you get people like yourself coming along to say that we shouldn't call it what it is. It's particularly absurd to call it "healthy debate" when a flippant comment as Phil.'s was is taken seriously, as the content of it was literally nothing more than saying that he agrees that he, too, feels prejudice against Pakistani and black people.

And no, as you insinuate, I am not defending the statements made by Air China - you might notice that one of their representatives isn't posting in this thread though. Simply letting them off the hook because people are "just different" is ridiculous: it becomes impossible to combat racism at all if everyone does what you're saying they should.
 
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AlterEgo

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I'm afraid I just strongly disagree.

Confronting people and saying they're racist is unproductive. It doesn't make people less prejudiced and all they think is "eff you". The other thing about calling people racist (or sexist, or anti-Semitic, or whatever) is that the person doing so is usually insinuating they have a personal quality ("I'm not racist") that the other person doesn't. You should think about how constructive your approach is and whether you yourself may be projecting some of your own issues when you attempt to patronise other posters.

I was in Brussels recently for work, for a week, and I took care to avoid certain suburbs - as I'm sure you would too. Perhaps you can think about why that might be, other than just insinuating I'm a racist, or an Islamophobe?

Can you confirm you're without sin when it comes to prejudice? Even unconscious bias?
 

TheKnightWho

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I'm afraid I just strongly disagree.

Confronting people and saying they're racist is unproductive. It doesn't make people less prejudiced and all they think is "eff you". The other thing about calling people racist (or sexist, or anti-Semitic, or whatever) is that the person doing so is usually insinuating they have a personal quality ("I'm not racist") that the other person doesn't. You should think about how constructive your approach is and whether you yourself may be projecting some of your own issues when you attempt to patronise other posters.

I was in Brussels recently for work, for a week, and I took care to avoid certain suburbs - as I'm sure you would too. Perhaps you can think about why that might be, other than just insinuating I'm a racist, or an Islamophobe?

Can you confirm you're without sin when it comes to prejudice? Even unconscious bias?

So we should never call out racism ever? Frankly, that is absurd: racism has only decreased because of mass movements against it and the fact that it has become increasingly taboo in younger generations. Saying that people's feelings might be upset is a pathetic reason not to confront it. Individual instances of doing so don't do very much, but en masse they have made a considerable difference. Nobody is completely free from unconscious bias: that doesn't mean you shouldn't do the best you can to combat it. Unfocused accusations of hypocrisy, solely for the purpose of shutting down talking about a problem, aren't very effective I'm afraid.

And as for your insinuations about my psychology, I really don't know what to say: what issues am I projecting when I call explicit racism racism?
 
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