Who have been the best TOCs so far?

[WestCoast]

That's probably one of the nicest comments anyone could write about a TOC! You should expand it and send it off the them, sure they'll appreciate it!!

I would, but then I remembered they pinched TPE's 170s and indirectly caused the Barrow/Blackpool - Manchester Airport services to be downgraded from 185s to 156s. So, actually, Chiltern and their Oxford services can sod off...

 

[lyndhurst25]

Wrexham & Shropshire had a good reputation. Shame I never got to travel with them.

I agree that Merseyrail is a vastly improved on cleanliness and antisocial behaviour compared to the late 90s or early 2000s. However overcrowding is now a big problem (didn't they turn down the offer of some surplus 508s?) and none of their stations offer collection of tickets & reservations booked online. As a result I'm left fighting for a seat or standing on long distance services from Liverpool just because my local station is managed by Merseyrail.

 

[yorksrob]

FGW do wonders in terms of reasonably priced travel in Cornwall/Devon.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Were they? On cleanliness and service standards yes but they promised things like Tilting trains and the electric horseshoe which they never came remotely close to actually delivering on

GNER train presentation was very good (and stylish) - they may not have got the 3 Parkway stations or the tilting sets that were talked about , but they did introduce Leeds half hourly for most of the day (remember the 373's in GNER colours) - and did a MK4 "Mallard" refurb with a good standard class makeover.

Proper dining cars, open to all ,was another plus.

 

[Masbroughlad]

I'd have to say GNER for all rounder with fantastic service. Was very disappointed that they didn't win more franchises.

And North Western Trains when initially ran by Great Western Holdings (before First bought GW). They were ambitious (and I think they had one of the best TOCS livery and branding to date!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

And North Western Trains when initially ran by Great Western Holdings (before First bought GW). They were ambitious (and I think they had one of the best TOCS livery and branding to date!)

I did like the starred blue. There was a previous livery - blue, white and orange - which looked quite good but never made it to a train, possibly because it was a blatant rip off of the branding of the Orange mountain bike company.

 

[Loop Line]

With regards to Merseyrail cracking down on naughty behaviour, I believe there is a large fine, sixty or eighty pounds for placing feet on seats. Although I think the transgressors is give a chance to put them down usually. Open alcohol containers are forbidden. As is excessive noise and foul language. Although I've not seen this part enforced too well. Much more effort in enforcement is needed. The staff are, by the standards of most operators, well turned out. This could be taken a bit further and would be good to see on all trains. They do it very well in Japan though a comparable level of service would require a cultural revolution in the UK.

I've found the service quite good over the years although there is always going to be placed things can be improved upon.

 

[northwichcat]

And North Western Trains when initially ran by Great Western Holdings (before First bought GW). They were ambitious (and I think they had one of the best TOCS livery and branding to date!)

They weren't perfect but they did at least initiate a full refurbishment of the class 150s and chose 175s to replace slam door stock rather than just going for the cheapest option of 170s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

c2c are a good, solid operator. Obviously they benefit from a relatively self contained network but they've kept their noses clean and run a decent service.

They introduced new trains on every service. Has any other TOC ever managed that to date?

 

[Iskra]

They weren't perfect but they did at least initiate a full refurbishment of the class 150s and chose 175s to replace slam door stock rather than just going for the cheapest option of 170s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They introduced new trains on every service. Has any other TOC ever managed that to date?

Virgin West Coast?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I have never had problems with London Midland to be honest their trains are always clean and on time.

I think it depends which part of London Midland you use. People I know in Brum don't think they're too bad at all.

Sadly for me, I used them on the southern WCML commuter trains. I'm not being hyperbolic when I said that it was a good week if two trains in the week arrived right time, rather than 2-3 minutes late, and I'm not just referring to peak trains either. My resounding memory of London Midland is standing on a cold platform at Euston next to a locked up 350, the displays saying "boarding" then "delayed", with the guard finally strolling down the platform ten minutes after departure was scheduled.

And then there's the issue of off-peak and weekend overcrowding, sticking 4-cars out on Saturdays. No word of a lie, I found it easier to get a seat on a peak evening train than I did on a train on a Saturday afternoon.

Midland Mainline & GNER.

Subsequent TOCs on both South Yorks to London routes have not come close to matching them.

I'd agree with that. Midland Mainline were prepared to be inventive and to try new things; some of them worked, some of them didn't. The only blot on their copybook was replacing proper intercity trains with 170s that weren't ever suitable for the job, although in fairness your choice of new trains in the early days was a 170 or a 170.

GNER's service was again usually pretty good, and they enhanced the ECML service far beyond even what it was in BR days. But the wheels were starting to fall off even before Sea Containers went bankrupt, standards were starting to slip because they'd overstretched themselves with the premiums.

I truthfully don't think they were as good as DOR were, and we're starting to see the same cracks in the service with Virgin as we did (due to overstretching) when National Express took over from GNER.

Until the recent timetable Horlicks, I'd have listed c2c as a really good commuter TOC too. I also had a lot of time for Arriva Trains Northern, who took over an absolute disaster zone of a franchise from MTL and actually managed to sort out most of the problems. We saw how good they were when Serco took over and destroyed all of their hard work in about six months.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

They weren't perfect but they did at least initiate a full refurbishment of the class 150s and chose 175s to replace slam door stock rather than just going for the cheapest option of 170s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They introduced new trains on every service. Has any other TOC ever managed that to date?

Gatwick Express (460s) if classed as a TOC in its own right

 

[J-2739]

Virgin West Coast?

Also Virgin XC.

 

[Z12XE]

I have issues with the way Merseyrail have pratted about with ticketing, particularly the way it has devalued Railcards - they either need to be a National Rail operator and play the game properly (i.e. reinstate CDRs or accept Railcard discounts on their day tickets), or Merseytravel need to seek to remove them from ATOC/RSP entirely and implement a proper Verbundtarif in their area. They are otherwise very good, though.

Perhaps there should be a referendum on whether Merseyrail should leave ATOC, they could call it Merseyrail Exit or Mrexit for short.

It could also then be used as a legal way for vile to be racist and for that to be totally acceptable.........

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They introduced new trains on every service. Has any other TOC ever managed that to date?

Part of that was down to the initial 15-year franchises, which applied to VTWC, VTXC, LTS (c2c) and South Eastern (though SE and XC changed owners early).
The 7-year franchises for other TOCs didn't really have a hope of replacing all their stock.

On the other hand, Merseyrail's 30-year "concession" hasn't yet delivered any new trains, while LO's has delivered complete replacement with a much bigger fleet.
Chiltern's 18-year franchise still hasn't replaced the Turbos or (more recently) the Mk3s.

 

[47271]

Well, I'm writing this from a Northern Pacer travelling at some speed, so they, and their predecessor, are out for me straight away.

First Scotrail has only come up once in this thread which, when so many have been praising the old Northern, strikes me as a bit unfair.

Abellio Scotrail has done little to upset me directly, but I think that I've been lucky this past 18 months...

 

[BestWestern]

FGW do wonders in terms of reasonably priced travel in Cornwall/Devon.

FGW/GWR also deserve recognition for the efforts undertaken to boost standard class capacity. Two separate rounds of rolling stock acquisition/refurbishment for the HST fleet; first the not insignificant conversion of former buffet cars into Standard Opens to standardise every set as 2+8, and then the further capacity added by introducing 'composite' coaches. We've also seen the recent declassification of some First Class seating on the Turbo fleet. Yes the DfT had involvement in parts, but nevertheless still a good effort I feel.

 

[tankmc]

Best: Chiltern

I never had a issue with Chiltern. Sometimes yes trains where short and maybone is a nightmare when they announce the platform with minutes to spare.

Worst: Great Northern / Greater Anglia

Service is a mess. The two operators seem to just blame each other when things go wrong and beyond cambridge the service is a mess. Constantly late, last minute cancellations, little or no delay repay and rude staff.

 

[greaterwest]

I want to give a shoutout to ATW because given the cards handed to them, they do a very good job. The 158 I travelled on back in October was clean and punctual, comfortable and the temperature was pleasant too.

The guards were very informative and cheerful too on all ATW services I've used.

 

[northernchris]

I also had a lot of time for Arriva Trains Northern, who took over an absolute disaster zone of a franchise from MTL and actually managed to sort out most of the problems. We saw how good they were when Serco took over and destroyed all of their hard work in about six months.

Arriva Trains Northern were quite good, especially towards the end. I actually thought Serco/Abellio continued the upward trend initiated by Arriva

 

[gazthomas]

I want to give a shoutout to ATW because given the cards handed to them, they do a very good job. The 158 I travelled on back in October was clean and punctual, comfortable and the temperature was pleasant too.

The guards were very informative and cheerful too on all ATW services I've used.

I agree with you

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Chiltern long may they continue.

Their inner London commuter services are poor compared to other operators in London.

 

[yorksrob]

FGW/GWR also deserve recognition for the efforts undertaken to boost standard class capacity. Two separate rounds of rolling stock acquisition/refurbishment for the HST fleet; first the not insignificant conversion of former buffet cars into Standard Opens to standardise every set as 2+8, and then the further capacity added by introducing 'composite' coaches. We've also seen the recent declassification of some First Class seating on the Turbo fleet. Yes the DfT had involvement in parts, but nevertheless still a good effort I feel.

I'm not sure I'd include reduction of 1st accommodation as a good thing though. If FGW had previously been running around with full standard and sparsely populated first, it suggests that they'd got their ticket pricing structure wrong.

 

[387star]

swt are brilliant I think

 

[BestWestern]

I'm not sure I'd include reduction of 1st accommodation as a good thing though. If FGW had previously been running around with full standard and sparsely populated first, it suggests that they'd got their ticket pricing structure wrong.

I disagree.

The aim is to make more space for Standard Class ticket holders, not to somehow flog a small number of them some sort of super discounted First Class effort. You'll fit many more people into a normal standard carriage than one fitted out as First.

 

[387star]

wasn't there a campaign back in 2007 for stagecoach to keep the franchise as they were that well regarded>?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think gwr could potentially be a fantastic operator and it has come a long way since 2006

 

[Sparks807Evo]

Best has to be Chiltern - invested heavily in their rolling stock over the years and operate a modern and well presented fleet. The 168s and MK3 have to be some of our best intercity trains in the country, with Wi-Fi, Charging facilities and well maintained interiors.

They have completely transformed the Chiltern Mainline into a real competitor to the WCML and the Oxford spur scheme is another promising innovation by Chiltern. The punctuality and reliability rates are some of the best in the country. I've rarely had an issue with them, frequently using them to get to London, and also on the short hops into Birmingham. The other good thing is that Chiltern are transparent, and that if there are issues they'll own up and try and solve it. E.g The Bank Holiday staff shortgage mentioned in the other threat, the 168/3s being used by themselves occasionally, any timetable changes.

Only impending/current issue is the two track approach to Marylebone constricting the number of paths available - but I'll leave that for another thread to deal with

 

[Robertj21a]

I agree with you

And another +1 for ATW from me too.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I actually thought Serco/Abellio continued the upward trend initiated by Arriva

I think it depends where you were. Serco/Abellio were better than First North Western, but not as good as Arriva Trains Northern.

Around Yorkshire and also in the north east, the first thing Serco did was bin off all the extra trains that Arriva had implemented, going back to the bare minimum. The S&C in particular lost out.

 

[bb21]

swt are brilliant I think

You clearly do not live on the Portsmouth Direct I reckon.

 

[CommuterPigeon]

I have to jump on the bandwagon and praise Chiltern. Good customer service, nice trains, clean stations and I'm quite fond of Marylebone and Moor Street. The only negative I've found is they don't always handle disruption very well but I think that's in part due to the nature of the line.

I'd also say (perhaps controversially since nobody else has mentioned them I think) that East Midlands Trains have done a decent job although I'm sure those who live in Lincolnshire probably don't agree. The mainline service is good and they've invested a lot of money in their fleet and I've always been impressed with their customer service.