Who have been the best TOCs so far?

[backontrack]

So we've got contenders for the worst (GTR, Connex, Virgin XC, early Virgin WC) - but what about the best TOCs?

 

[bramling]

So we've got contenders for the worst (GTR, Connex, Virgin XC, early Virgin WC) - but what about the best TOCs?

SWT - generally an all-round competent operator, once the early misjudgements were ironed out.

WAGN under National Express - turned round a poor-performing post-Hatfield service into one you could set your watch by.

Chiltern - not bad and have invested heavily in worthwhile infrastructure works such as reinstatement of double track. *But*, it could be said they have focused too heavily on poaching traffic off Virgin West Coast, perhaps sometimes to the detriment of more captive markets. They also quite often turn out short trains on crowded off-peak services which for me is a major black mark. But all in all not a bad operation.

Northern Rail - wouldn't by any means say this was the best we could have had, but given the pack of cards dealt to them, heavy growth and the complexity / scale of their operation, I'd say Northern Rail were pretty good all in all.

 

[Harbornite]

I'd suggest Chiltern.

 

[matt_world2004]

I have never had problems with London Midland to be honest their trains are always clean and on time.

 

[Clansman]

Depends what you define "Best" I suppose.

Best for service quality: GNER
Best for franchise management: Chiltern

Others
Best punctuality: Not Southern
Best for fares: Not Cross Country
Best staff moral: Not Southern & Scotrail

 

[yorksrob]

I quite liked the old Northern. They had enough marketing flair to make the best out of their old rolling stock. New Northern hasn't really been around long enough to make a judgement.

 

[northwichcat]

Merseyrail - especially considering their newest train entered service in 1979.

 

[bramling]

I have never had problems with London Midland to be honest their trains are always clean and on time.

Wouldn't agree. Their commuter operation is just about okay, but I've experienced too much off-peak overcrowding to even begin to like London Midland. Too much trying to take traffic off Virgin without providing the necessary capacity.

 

[MK Tom]

Obviously open access operators are in a completely different situation so can't be compared on an even field with franchises, but Grand Central are probably offering the best normal service travelling experience of any operator, at least on their HSTs.

Chiltern are a name you're going to keep hearing in this thread, but the use of 2-car 165s on the Amersham line is a bugbear for me. But their Evergreen investments and their decision to bring back the comfort of locomotive haulage score highly. Also their good reliability is probably down to the fact they have most of their network to themselves. Similar applies to c2c.

As a regular London Midland customer, their timekeeping and presentation are generally good, although boarding trains at Euston that still have the previous journey's trash throughout them is a bit annoying. They're a bit cancel-happy, especially where staff unavailability is concerned (is that a GoVia thing, SouthEastern users?) and the procedure of leaving trains locked at Euston until about two minutes before departure and having everybody crowd onto the platform and wait is also a "black mark" for me.

Virgin West Coast I'd say are all-round excellent for service. Reliability is good on the whole, if you accept their idea of on time as being roughly in the same quadrant of the clock as what the timetable says.

 

[PacerTrain142]

Got to be Northern Rail!

You will be missed..

 

[prod_pep]

First Great Eastern always seemed good to me, and I think they did pick up an award or two during their run. The Metro 315s were decently kept despite being unrefurbished and their 321 refurbishment was in my view quite pleasant. Overall they have to rank as one of the relatively few FirstGroup franchise successes. Things nosedived after 'One'/NXEA took over the Great Eastern lines.

Out of the InterCity franchises, I have to go with Virgin West Coast. They've hugely improved timekeeping over the years and their service is always good. I've found them to be very helpful when things go wrong as well.

Neither of my regular TOCs, Merseyrail and Northern Rail, are getting a nomination as one of the best.

 

[samuelmorris]

Perhaps slightly controversial but c2c have to be up there - yes punctuality is very high due to the simplicity of the network, but undeniably that plus 100% air conditioned stock in a reasonable state of upkeep goes a long way for passenger experience. Further, any substantial delays do seem to be taken quite seriously, on the odd couple of occasions I've had 60+ minute delays with them (and twice in 4 years for a regular commute isn't bad), there have been publicly displayed written apologies at the stations, and staff handing out free chocolate on the following day - not an overly grand gesture, but again, goes a long way for customer perception. That plus (although there's more than the TOC responsible for this) the comparatively low fares vs. their competitors makes it quite a compelling service to use. It's just a shame that things have gone a little bit downhill with their recent timetable changes. Even so, it hardly brings their service down from the top quartile of TOCs, despite what the rants of some on twitter may suggest.

FGE always seemed quite good to me but I was a bit too young at the time to critically evaluate them, especially since back then I seldom used any other TOC, so wouldn't have known what I was missing, for better or worse. I think people are generally agreed that things were worse once NX took over though.

 

[blotred]

Not sure if it counts, and it may be a controversial one, but London Overground.

Tidy stations, tidy trains, commuted for over 2 years on the NLL and its punctuality was great.

So yeah, the seats aren't great on the 378s, and the journey timing is quite... padded. But it is reliable, safe, smart and reliable. It ticks the box of London suburban/metro-like/whatever railway service perfectly.


(disclaimer, I have now moved to South London and use the Southern "Metro", so maybe I have orange-tinted glasses)

 

[507021]

Personally, I'd have to go with Merseyrail and Northern for my best TOCs. I've never had any major issues with either operator and I feel I can rely on them to get me where I need to go.

 

[Loop Line]

I concur. Merseyrail have started the ball rolling on smartness for rail staff. A good start had been made on by-law enforcement, and the trains are fresh and comfortable. It's always nice transferring from a northern train to a Merseyrail one. The contrast is especially stark in winter. I do like some of the northern routes and the pacers have a charm about them.

 

[WestCoast]

I have never had problems with London Midland to be honest their trains are always clean and on time.

LM has a modern and well-presented fleet but anyone that has experienced the cancellations and delays in the West Midlands due to staff shortages might have something to say about their reliability. I guess it depends on which part of LM you use as the Snow Hill Lines feel a world away from the WCML.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I concur. Merseyrail have started the ball rolling on smartness for rail staff. A good start had been made on by-law enforcement, and the trains are fresh and comfortable. It's always nice transferring from a northern train to a Merseyrail one. The contrast is especially stark in winter. I do like some of the northern routes and the pacers have a charm about them.

Merseyrail is a good suggestion, their high standards definitely show when compared to old Northern on the commuter lines out of Manchester (especially with regards to ticketing and onboard enforcement).

 

[bramling]

LM has a modern and well-presented fleet but anyone that has experienced the cancellations and delays in the West Midlands due to staff shortages might have something to say about their reliability. I guess it depends on which part of LM you use as the Snow Hill Lines feel a world away from the WCML.

Also their residual fleet of class 321s was certainly not well presented.

 

[Spankthemonkey]

SWT - a toc that you never seem to hear much bad publicity about. Consider the complexity and number of passengers and services into Waterloo. Then consider what would happen if you put that govia shower in charge!

 

[matt_world2004]

LM has a modern and well-presented fleet but anyone that has experienced the cancellations and delays in the West Midlands due to staff shortages might have something to say about their reliability. I guess it depends on which part of LM you use as the Snow Hill Lines feel a world away from the WCML.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


it would have been exclusively between watford junction and euston so yes that tallies.

 

[WestCoast]

Also their residual fleet of class 321s was certainly not well presented.

Fair point, some of the class 150s used on peak relief services (e.g. Hereford - New Street) are not the nicest either.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

it would have been exclusively between watford junction and euston so yes that tallies.

Sure thing as LM covers a massive area really, right from Euston to Liverpool.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I concur. Merseyrail have started the ball rolling on smartness for rail staff. A good start had been made on by-law enforcement, and the trains are fresh and comfortable. It's always nice transferring from a northern train to a Merseyrail one. The contrast is especially stark in winter. I do like some of the northern routes and the pacers have a charm about them.

I have issues with the way Merseyrail have pratted about with ticketing, particularly the way it has devalued Railcards - they either need to be a National Rail operator and play the game properly (i.e. reinstate CDRs or accept Railcard discounts on their day tickets), or Merseytravel need to seek to remove them from ATOC/RSP entirely and implement a proper Verbundtarif in their area. They are otherwise very good, though.

I'd like to propose latter-day VTWC. Competently run and managed, surprisingly understated given Virgin's publicity tendencies, punctual, reliable and some sensible capacity management work like the merger of Brum-Scotland with Euston-Wolves. I use them a lot and I rarely have a serious complaint.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

SWT - a toc that you never seem to hear much bad publicity about. Consider the complexity and number of passengers and services into Waterloo. Then consider what would happen if you put that govia shower in charge!

Ah, yes, I forgot SWT, who appear to be very competently run and with a very nice fleet, too.

LM are OK but have made too many bad cost-cutting moves, and everyone here knows what I think about underpricing of tickets on overcrowded services.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

LM has a modern and well-presented fleet but anyone that has experienced the cancellations and delays in the West Midlands due to staff shortages might have something to say about their reliability. I guess it depends on which part of LM you use as the Snow Hill Lines feel a world away from the WCML.

And they seem completely unable to be bothered to find a proper solution, whatever that may be, to the unreliability of the Marston Vale caused by not having a spare unit on hand anywhere vaguely near Bletchley.

 

[W-on-Sea]

London Overground and c2c are both vastly - and I really do mean vastly - superior to what preceded them, which make them both stand out, and also highlight their appeal to passengers, especially those used to endure either the old Silverlink/North London Railways/BR shambles, or the old BR LT&S misery line. . Granted, in both regards they are kind of special cases, in as much as they have both received unusual levels of investment (complete set of new trains in both cases, complete and extensive overhaul of almost all stations with unprecedented levels of staffing in LOROL's case, complete new signalling system in the case of c2c.

 

[anti-pacer]

LM has a modern and well-presented fleet but anyone that has experienced the cancellations and delays in the West Midlands due to staff shortages might have something to say about their reliability. I guess it depends on which part of LM you use as the Snow Hill Lines feel a world away from the WCML.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Merseyrail is a good suggestion, their high standards definitely show when compared to old Northern on the commuter lines out of Manchester (especially with regards to ticketing and onboard enforcement).

I'm asking out of interest, but what by-laws do Merseyrail enforce, apart from the feet on seats rule?

 

[J-2739]

Sorry, bit late...

Chiltern
C2C
Northern Rail- Abelio were rather good with the little they had.

 

[backontrack]

I think GNER were pretty good.

 

[prod_pep]

My main issues with Merseyrail are capacity, with constant short-forming of peak services (this is very common indeed) and lack of off-peak and weekend capacity outside a small summer period and just before Christmas. Merseyrail is very well used outside the peaks, especially on the Southport and Ormskirk routes, and the winter weekend service for the former route in particular is so poor.

The other issue is cleanliness. I'd say they are amongst the worst TOCs I have used for exterior cleanliness and average at best internally. Having litter bins on trains since last year's refresh has helped somewhat, but the floors and seats aren't as clean as they should be. Other, more maligned TOCs are much, much better in this department, including the former First Capital Connect.

I also agree on the ticketing situation. Not allowing railcard discounts on their day tickets seems a little questionable to me. The lack of discount is fine for the Merseytravel Saveaway product, but not for the solely Northern Line and Wirral Line day ticket.

 

[Robertj21a]

Surely, has to be SWT. Also EMT not far behind.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I quite liked the old Northern. They had enough marketing flair to make the best out of their old rolling stock.

Seconded, a genuinely friendly customer focused opperation, with the obvious acception of the whole 80 quid penalties and the management of same

 

[Lampshade]

Chiltern.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Also in aggreement with Neil about the post pendo days of VTWC, in particular the merging of the 1 of the Brum Eustoms with the anglo scot as for foalk from the North it has given us more seats and a cheeper all be it slower London service where advances are concerned.

GNER were good and would most likely still be if see containers hadnt met a sticky end