The role is inevitable at GTR it starts in a few days, there's no point in fighting battles you can't win. You just have to get the best you can, if you want to maintain it, partnership with management and winning the hearts and minds of the public is essential.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal
- Thread starter hornbyfan99
- Start date
- Status
The role is inevitable at GTR it starts in a few days, there's no point in fighting battles you can't win. You just have to get the best you can, if you want to maintain it, partnership with management and winning the hearts and minds of the public is essential.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Because winning the hearts and minds of the public would stop the government via the rail companies from implementing their agenda of driver only, on the basis of their mythical belief that they can take down the unions by wiping away some members? Yeah, right. It's nice to have the public on side but as i've learned over the years it doesn't solve a transport strike either way.
Last edited:
Unless there's a fairly compelling safety case for conversion of most/all the lines that went DOO since 1984 back to full safety critical guard operation, and countries like Ireland (almost 100% DOO) turn out to have an inferior safety record due to that , then some change is probably inevitable in the UK
Last edited:
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
It is a long time since I have seen the word "gard" as it is a Department in southern France situated in the Langguedoc-Rousssin-Midi Pyrenees region.
I do like the resurrection of the old Scottish term "faught"....
With respect to the second answer I am pretty sure that in the event that there is litigation due to an injury/fataility arguably arising from DOO (and there would be) much of the material (about relative risks etc) which all of those bodies highdyke keeps banging on about apparently seem so desperate not to put into the public domain will be deemed relevant by the Court and will appear in an open Court... dependent upon what exactly is included or what can be inferred from it by a highly skilled QC I wish good luck to some individual decision makers....
Flamingo
Established Member
- Joined
- 26 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 6,806
Only if the TOC pleads Not Guilty, I would imagine...
Fincra5
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 2,636
It might well be, for the current DOO cleared routes (most of which have no conductor on for all or part of the route anyways)
SO yes there is a point in fighting.
At the end of the day. DOO maybe safe but it isn't the safest!
Upon which I find it amazing that TLK drivers are offered, as part of their pay deal, to self dispatch everywhere. Now that's far from safe.
Forgive me for not trawling through this entire thread to see if this question has already been answered.
What has happened to the FGW/GWR DOO dispute over the introduction of the Class 800/801/802s? Has it been resolved since last summer? I don't recall ever reading about the dispute being formally resolved since then.
If it has been resolved, I take it that First agreed to keeping all guards on all class 800 trains, even during disruption, with the guards controlling the doors, and the retention of the buffet or mini-buffet on every class 800 train?
Thanks.
What has happened to the FGW/GWR DOO dispute over the introduction of the Class 800/801/802s? Has it been resolved since last summer? I don't recall ever reading about the dispute being formally resolved since then.
If it has been resolved, I take it that First agreed to keeping all guards on all class 800 trains, even during disruption, with the guards controlling the doors, and the retention of the buffet or mini-buffet on every class 800 train?
Thanks.
Last edited:
Most likely.... perhaps unless they wish to plead mitigation...
BUT, while I imagine that TOCs are prepared to accept some excrement on behalf of DfT I am equally certain that any such acceptance must surely have limits...
If it came out that a TOC was trying to conceal things of a serious safety-sensitive nature there would be massive pressure for a Public Inquiry (I bear the scars of having worked on three and it's far from a barrel of laughs trying to protect sensitive material)....
Last edited:
If not ture then it seems someone is lying and if true then someone else might be lying.
Oh to be a fly on the wall so an even sided report of proceedings could be written.
Not doing to get such a thing from GTR or the RMT.
Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
Last edited:
According to other posters on here it's not really been resolved the way you suggest or any other way but merely kicked into the long grass for now due mainly to delays in the electrification, but I'm willing to be corrected if that's wrong
Last edited:
I think there was probably something worked out in the direct award to maintain the status quo, but I think it'll all kick off again with the new franchise in 2019
Oh right cheers for that information, sounds like DFTs doing a lot of dithering over this whole DOO/DCD idea
Last edited:
313103
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 May 2006
- Messages
- 1,595
I know what obs means, but what does dcd mean? Not heard of that phrase before sorry.
SpacePhoenix
Established Member
- Joined
- 18 Mar 2014
- Messages
- 5,491
DCD is probably short for something like Driver Controlled Doors
tsr
Established Member
Not quite - some services which were already DOO will now have OBS staff (generally supervised by managers at present, and being rolled out on a gradual basis) from today.
These will be:
- Those London-Brighton services which had already operated DOO
- DOO Tattenham Corner services
- DOO London Bridge-London Victoria services
- Some other "Metro" DOO suburban routes at weekends
where formed of 377s.
Conductors do not even sign Purley-Tattenham Corner, or Sydenham-Crystal Palace (apart from a small amount of residual route knowledge not being refreshed), so they wouldn't work the middle two anyway.
Of note, some services on the Brighton route which run DOO on weekdays and Saturdays actually have conductors on Sundays anyway. I believe this remains the case for the time being.
Conductor-operated routes remain the same in the short term... if they don't, some drivers will be having interesting surprises when they're waiting for two on the bell, as that won't have been what they're briefed...
The big roll out of 12 car DOO services start with two trains on a weekday heading up to London. From what I can work out, the conductor that normally works the trains up will be classed assist* up, but work the trains down as normal during the PM rush hour.
OBS's that are on trains are supposed to tell the driver that they are there.
From what I can work out, the big change will also find something missing from Southern/GTR trains in the area that may make a big change to a certain part of this forum.
OBS's that are on trains are supposed to tell the driver that they are there.
From what I can work out, the big change will also find something missing from Southern/GTR trains in the area that may make a big change to a certain part of this forum.
313103
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 May 2006
- Messages
- 1,595
This part i dont understand, when the train is doo operated why should a non operational (and i am not being disingenuous on this point) member of staff tell the driver that they are there? Seems a rather cackhanded way of doing things.
If this member of staff has no operational duties to carry out then surely the driver doesnt need to know or should be concerned.
Last edited:
Well, it seems that the OBS may be allowed to put a key on to stop the local door closing to allow help with certain groups of punters. Once this is complete, the OBS removes the key, driver then closes the doors. (or thats the plan)
Plus to let them know they are there should certain situations require it.
Last edited:
If I know I have other staff members on board then my actions will differ. I would absolutely want to know if the OBS that was booked, was actually present.
313103
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 May 2006
- Messages
- 1,595
That is surely a unsafe method of working. I thought on electrostar units once the close door button had been depressed, the only person that could over ride the closure procedure was the driver. On the class 378 units (which i beilive is very similar to the type of trains you guys operate (class 376 or 377), the only way a Guard could reopen the doors was from the rear cab, of which we were forbidden to use in fact not even trained to use. The control panels inside the trains only had (from memory anyway) a close door button and interlock light and a PA handset.
If you have your key active on a door panel (classed as the local door). The driver may close the doors, but yours should remain open until you remove/de activate the key. The driver also gets a light saying Key on, or words like that. That how, when your working a train, you close the doors, step back out onto the platform, then can check all doors are closed, all bil lights out and folks are clear. (all in 3D full colour) (and a final signal/route check), then you re-board the train, de activate your key, your local door closes, and then you give the read to start signal. In OBS world the key will only be active to allow the OBs to use a ramp (or help to certain punters) without the driver closing the local door on them. Once the action is complete, the key is removed.
Note: It's not my plan, but it's a plan that is being introduced as we speak.
Last edited:
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
As a complete outsider, can I ask what a "bil" light is?
The only code I know nearest to that were the 2-BIL units of the Southern Railway.
The yellow light on the outside of a coach/unit. Lit when doors open, or released. Out when closed and interlocked.
On some units they flash when a pass com has been activated in that coach, others when a guard has a local key on.
D1009
Established Member
I guess it's the orange lights on the side of the train which show when the doors are released.
- Status