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Who do you support for Labour party leader?

Who will you support in the Labour leadership elections?

  • I support/am affiliated with the Tories/Lib Dems/UKIP/etc

    Votes: 38 33.6%
  • Jeremy Corbyn

    Votes: 31 27.4%
  • Owen Smith

    Votes: 29 25.7%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 15 13.3%

  • Total voters
    113
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backontrack

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My question to Labour supporters: who will you be supporting come the leadership elections?

(The SNP isn't mentioned - that's because you may well have an opinion on who should lead Labour south of the border, in which case you can be treated as neutral. Same applies to Plaid Cymru.)
 
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Harbornite

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Good question. I voted for Tories/Lib dems but I like having Corbyn as leader of Labour because he will keep Labour out of power and has reduced the prominence of divisions in the conservative party.

Regarding Owen Smith, he seems alright and I don't mind the fact that he is Welsh, but like Corbyn, he has come out with some crap.
 
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Howardh

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Hillary Benn. I've never voted Labour in my life, but would for him.
 

AlterEgo

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Bring back David Miliband from America.
 

Cambus731

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My preference would be for Andy Burnham but it seems he is no longer interested, at least for the time being.
 

yorksrob

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Anyone prepared to end the asset stripping of the country.

Been voting since 1997 and none of the buggers have stopped it so far, regardless of who I've voted for.

Free market, bargain basement Britain.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Jeremy Corbyn for me, I can't think of a better way to keep Labour out of No 10

Seconded.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Anyone prepared to end the asset stripping of the country. Been voting since 1997 and none of the buggers have stopped it so far, regardless of who I've voted for.

Free market, bargain basement Britain.

Does the Gordon Brown raid of the pension funds fall under your description of "asset stripping" ?
 

Gathursty

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Jeremy Corbyn.

I think it's childish that people who'd never vote Labour would encourage a vote for the supposedly 'weaker' choice. I've never once heard a Labour supporter say the Tories should be led by Jacob Rees-Mogg for example. To me, it just re-inforces the age-old moniker 'The Nasty Party'. By the way, I look forward to Teresa May announcing soon that she may have to further cut allowances for the disabled even though her own mother had MS for a time. Also, her record speaks volumes... (https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10426/theresa_may/maidenhead/divisions?policy=6673 - Theresa May's voting record on disability)

If you're going to look for weaknesses in a Party. Start with your own first. Good luck.
 

Harbornite

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What do y'll think of this...

In my previous post, I gave several reasons why I believe Jeremy Corbyn is completely unelectable. Quite a few people asked, not unreasonably, whether I thought differently about Owen Smith.

Could Owen Smith win a General Election? I’m sure we all have differing opinions on that one, but going by the benchmarks I measured Corbyn against last time, the answer is that we just can’t know. We have no by-election results, no local elections, no accounts of his record in the leader’s office. There is nothing to reasonably judge this by.

But I think we can say he will very likely perform better than Jeremy Corbyn.

Compared with the previous ten months of turmoil, Owen Smith would lead a united parliamentary party. His victory would give Labour MP’s currently on the backbenches an opportunity to step up and take the fight to the Tories; talented people such as Dan Jarvis, Stella Creasy, Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn, Chuka Umunna and Angela Eagle could all serve in a significantly strengthened Shadow Cabinet.

Although we have no idea how Owen Smith’s office would operate, it is very difficult to imagine it being as horribly dysfunctional as it has been under Corbyn. Despite being relatively unknown, Smith leads Corbyn amongst the wider public. And, of course, Owen Smith has none of Jeremy Corbyn’s history, which, like it or not, would be used against the party during any election campaign.

I think we can be fairly certain that Owen Smith would outperform Jeremy Corbyn at a General Election. Those people pointing to big attendances at Corbyn rallies and claiming it signifies huge support in the country really need to read a bit about what happened in 1983.

But can Owen Smith win this leadership contest? Given the polls, and my experience of the membership, he is definitely the underdog. To have any chance, we need to win over people who voted Corbyn last time. This requires an understanding of why Jeremy Corbyn won last year, and why his support remains high.

Many Labour members felt that, last summer, Jeremy Corbyn was the only candidate offering anything positive. Andy Burnham flip-flopped chasing votes, Yvette Cooper’s campaign was weak and only really got going very late on, and Liz Kendall put many members off with her comments on welfare.

The moderate candidates seemed uninspiring; preaching pragmatism without any purpose, trying to sell an “eat your greens” message to members with no positive vision, triangulation as merely a muscle memory. There was none of the radicalism that Tony Blair offered as he swept to power twenty years ago.

Fast forward to this year. At my CLP nominations meeting last week, members spoke of feeling inspired by Corbyn, and about how happy they were that someone was standing up for what they saw as “real socialism”. They saw him as the only person willing to stand up for refugees, the homeless, and the poor.

I don’t agree with much of this, but we need to understand the sentiment in order to win.

Although the welfare bill abstention wasn’t proof that most Labour MP’s love austerity, members don’t want any equivocation on such topics. They don’t want to go back to immigration mugs, or splitting the difference on welfare.

Hence Owen Smith’s route to victory lies in speaking to the party’s heart. Most members aren’t hard left entryists, but part of the “soft left”, a grouping who want power, but also appreciate Corbyn’s opposition to austerity, war, and nuclear weapons. They will swing this election, and so it is these members that Smith needs to appeal to. He will need to convince them that a shift away from Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t mean a return to the funk the party found themselves in last year.

This is very much the campaign that Smith is running. He offers a package that is catnip for the soft left; infrastructure investment, more money for the NHS, schools, and libraries, a 50p top rate of tax, reversal of various Tory tax cuts, a huge house building programme, investment in efficient energy, and much, much more.

This would represent the most radical Labour policy platform in many years. It’s no good Jeremy Corbyn complaining that Smith has taken his policies; a vague mention in a speech or an idea that Corbyn once had doesn’t count as a policy. Owen Smith has a genuinely radical, inspiring vision that the party could unite behind; rather than just mouthing platitudes about cuts, Smith has a plan.

It is a plan that sits firmly within the best Labour traditions. As with Ramsay MacDonald and Clement Attlee, Smith seeks to fight for workers’ rights. Infrastructure investment and ambitious house building targets echo Harold Wilson’s government. Tony Blair significantly increased spending on schools and hospitals, as Smith pledges to do now.

These are a set of proposals that should enthuse Labour members; surely this is what we all want to achieve?

Owen Smith is by no means perfect. The New Statesman recently listed four occasions he has made misogynistic comments, a worrying pattern. Supporting Owen Smith does not mean we turn a blind eye to this; even if we want him to win, we must be able to criticise if we think he is wrong. Smith seeks to represent us, and we should demand better from him.

His previous employment at Pfizer will have also concerned members, although its worth noting that the criticism doesn’t get any further than “he worked for Pfizer”.

In any case, any worries about Pfizer rank some way behind Jeremy Corbyn’s opportunistic proposals to nationalise pharmaceutical companies, and to cuttax relief for private companies developing life-saving medicines.

Seemingly a policy designed purely to attack a political opponent, this episode displays Corbyn’s cynicism and utter naivety; not exactly very “new politics”. As a party, we deserve much better than that.

All Labour members should rightly be proud of our party’s history. The NHS. The welfare state. Sure Start. The Open University. The minimum wage.

We have achieved some great things.

We can be a party to be proud of again. We can make a difference again.

In Owen Smith, we have someone with a radical left-wing platform, properly costed, and who would at the very least make Labour a more coherent, effective opposition. From here, he offers us by far the best chance of getting rid of the Conservative government.

The road back to power is long. Labour will still have to answer many difficult questions. But it is clear that Jeremy Corbyn does not have the solutions.

A vote for Owen Smith will mean Labour’s recovery can begin.


https://thegerasites.wordpress.com/2016/08/01/vote-for-owen-smith/
 

backontrack

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61653 HTAFC

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What is now being dubbed "Traingate" has muddied the waters further for me...

Ideologically I'm probably somewhere in between the two candidates, and were it not for his pledge to re-run the EU referendum I'd probably go for Smith, as he seems to have many of the good things that Corbyn offers but without the sinister Momentum backing. I voted remain in the referendum but I believe that the decision, though tight, should be honoured. I also don't believe that Brexit when it eventually happens will necessarily be a disaster. My outlook is that we just have to make the best of it.

I'd have more respect for Corbyn if, in the run up to the referendum, he'd been honest about how he felt about the EU - an acknowledgement that the EU isn't perfect. Indeed he could have chosen to sit on the fence and suggested that his supporters vote how they wish. There was no requirement for him to support either side.

If traingate has shown me anything it's that Corbyn is not great at PR and that large sections of the business and media community can't wait for him to screw up - which doesn't bode well for a General Election.
 

phoenixcronin

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I'm a pretty liberal/moderate Tory, but I've persuaded my mum who has a vote due to her union at work to vote for Corbyn, both as an act of sabotage and because even Owen Smith is too far left for me, and therefore send a message that labour needs to regain the proper centre ground i.e. New Labour. She, like me, doesn't like either of them (she calls Corbyn "the idiot") and wasn't planning on voting, but I managed to persuade her.

In a hypothetical general election between a "Blairite" and a very right wing Tory I would definately vote Labour.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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I'm a pretty liberal/moderate Tory, but I've persuaded my mum who has a vote due to her union at work to vote for Corbyn, both as an act of sabotage to damage Labour and because even Owen Smith is too far left for me, and therefore send a message that labour needs to regain the proper centre ground i.e. New Labour. She, like me, doesn't like either of them (she calls Corbyn "the idiot") and wasn't planning on voting, but I managed to persuade her.

In a hypothetical general election between a "Blairite" and a very right wing Tory I would definately vote Labour.

Isn't that not really in the spirit of democracy? :roll:
 

61653 HTAFC

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Democracy includes the right to free expression and the right to vote for whoever one sees fit. Therefore this isn't undemocratic.

However, persuading someone who wasn't intending to use their vote, to use that vote in a particular way (especially when the motive for such a vote is an attempt at sabotage!) is NOT in the spirit of democracy, I argue.
 

AlterEgo

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However, persuading someone who wasn't intending to use their vote, to use that vote in a particular way (especially when the motive for such a vote is an attempt at sabotage!) is NOT in the spirit of democracy, I argue.

This is the very essence of democracy!
 

DarloRich

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Anyone but Corbyn. The man is a clown and a vote for him simply gives the general election to the Conservatives as well as fracturing our party beyond repair.

Corbyn needs to go. He is a clueless, inept fool with the leadership qualities of a gnat. The general public think he is a joke, our polling ratings are awful and the leader of his £3 army says winning doesn't matter.

However bodies like Momentum will keep him in power so they can hear nice cuddly ideologically pure slogans at rallies where they can shout down with Tories while all the time knowing they will never have the power to do anything about the issues because to do something means compromising your views and that simply wont do for the acolytes of St Jezza.

We are doomed. However, more importantly so are the very people the £3 army say they are trying to help. Those people ( the poorest and most deprived in our society) are doomed to suffer even more at the hands of the Tories and thier policies. It would be funny if it weren't so enraging and upsetting.
 

Blamethrower

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^ sounds like someone is believing the smear campaign by the tories

Corbyn for me is the first electable labour leader since bliar.

Smith says he wants another referendum for the "invokement of clause 50" which is a gross dereliction of duty. The electorate have spoken, do your bl00dy job Mr politician, don't pass the buck.

So for me, republican, socialist Corbyn is the ONLY choice for this country right now. Capitalism is too rampant in destroying the lives of the needy and the vulnerable, the tories perpetuate this with cut, cut, cut.

Personally though, I've never committed to one side or the other. I do not align myself with any party as none of them represent my beliefs and values.

Corbyn is the first person to make me commit to a side as he represents careful methodical thinking over "I'm in this party therefore I think this" bu114h1t

Judge each situation by it's merits, not by what side of the fence you sit.

There are many though who don't listen to reason, don't want change and are happy in their little worlds. Corbyn represents a change to the politics that almost everyone in every party have committed to since Labour became Nu-Labour.

The system has to change, that can only happen with Corbyn (Dallas) - abolish the monarchy, devolve power to local councils to make them accountable, re-nationalise public services etc etc
 

DarloRich

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^ sounds like someone is believing the smear campaign by the tories

Corbyn for me is the first electable labour leader since bliar.

Smith says he wants another referendum for the "invokement of clause 50" which is a gross dereliction of duty. The electorate have spoken, do your bl00dy job Mr politician, don't pass the buck.

So for me, republican, socialist Corbyn is the ONLY choice for this country right now. Capitalism is too rampant in destroying the lives of the needy and the vulnerable, the tories perpetuate this with cut, cut, cut.

Personally though, I've never committed to one side or the other. I do not align myself with any party as none of them represent my beliefs and values.

Corbyn is the first person to make me commit to a side as he represents careful methodical thinking over "I'm in this party therefore I think this" bu114h1t

Judge each situation by it's merits, not by what side of the fence you sit.

There are many though who don't listen to reason, don't want change and are happy in their little worlds. Corbyn represents a change to the politics that almost everyone in every party have committed to since Labour became Nu-Labour.

The system has to change, that can only happen with Corbyn (Dallas) - abolish the monarchy, devolve power to local councils to make them accountable, re-nationalise public services etc etc

none of that will ever happen because Corbyn simply isn't electable. Look at the polls! We aren't convincing normal people that we are a credible alternative to the Conservatives. Without convincing millions of normal people to vote for him Corbyn has no chance. The calculus is quite clear:

We need 326 seats. We have 232. Even if we win ALL of the SNP, Lid Dem, Green and PC seats we still need to take seats of the Tories to take power! That means we have to persuade thier people to vote for us. We simply aren't doing that, can't do that and won't do that with Corbyn at the helm.

Sorry - he wont win. However that isn't important to Momentum
 
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Johnuk123

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^ sounds like someone is believing the smear campaign by the tories

There in a nutshell is the problem with the delusion that Corbyn would be really electable and popular amongst the whole of the population if it wasn't for the papers.

The only people who really believe that the bloke is going to lead labour into a winning election strategy is his band of devoted groupies who are deluded to a point of near insanity.

It isn't the media who are making Corbyn totally toxic it's the bloke himself.
 

Tetchytyke

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It isn't the media who are making Corbyn totally toxic it's the bloke himself.

I disagree, actually, I think the media have a lot to do with it. The media have moved the Overton Window so far to the right that people with centrist policies are now seen as far-left, whereas people with moderate-right policies are now seen as centrist. It's getting towards how it is in America.

Privatisation is now seen as a centrist policy, as is welfare benefit cuts. Even under Thatcher in the 80s they were not seen as centrist, they were right-wing.

If you look at the actual policies Corbyn is about the same place on the spectrum as David Owen was in the 80s. Owen had to leave Labour because he was too right-wing, yet now we're supposed to believe Corbyn is some left-wing firebrand? He isn't. You don't get left-wing firebrands in Islington.

Labour's only chance of success is getting the Overton Window back into the centre. Which means you need the centre-right of the Labour party to be winning seats and winning elections, as the only way you gain control is by winning. And that means Corbyn is not going to do it; wrongly or wrongly he is seen as some firebrand trot.

Rest assured that Smith, should he win, will get all the same *****e thrown at him about being a left-wing trot bringing us all back to International Communism. Ed Miliband ended up being portrayed as a dangerous trot, for crying out loud.

Corbyn can't win and Corbyn won't win an election. But I think all Labour leaders are going to face the same issues. Even Tory Lite sees them tarnished as left-wing firebrands, as we saw with Miliband and even with Gordon Brown- the architect of Blairism- so unless the Labour leader ends up to the right of Blair they're going to struggle.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
ETA We see the issue with the Overton Window on here too. I'm a Lib Dem, always have been always will be, and from the SDP side of the party to boot. But because I don't agree that privatisation is always good and businessmen are our sainted leaders, and because I don't agree with the dog whistle politics of the Tories on race, immigration and welfare benefits, I'm seen on here as some left-wing Trotskyite.

I've only ever voted Labour once- and that was to stop the Tories winning- and I'm exactly the sort of person Labour need to attract. And no, Corbyn ain't gonna do it. Not sure that Smith will either, but baby steps.
 
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