Heathrow Airport T5A - T5B - T5C transit train.

[306024]

Possibly sneeking through? Security isn't some sort of game :roll:

 

[fowler9]

Yeah, trying to blag your way around airport security to get a ride on a people mover doesn't really sound a very sensible thing to do. I wouldn't go making suggestions like that to people either.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Take a super-soaker as well, nothing security like more than a little morning wake-up!

 

[Clip]

Would one way of possibly sneaking through this be that 'you're tired' and missed your stop so were just going to make your way back round?

Surely, the odd person misses where they needed to get off at. So what happens to them?

They get shipped off to Guantanamo bay

 

[PermitToTravel]

There are a remarkable number of reports on the internet of people being told by airline or airport staff that the easiest way to leave would be to double back on the shuttle via 5C

I don't think immigration would care too much about it if they even notice (while there is API, there certainly aren't comprehensive exit checks - ways to travel on the Eurostar without giving your name, for example). Be really bloody sure that you bring your passport with you if booking a domestic flight to do this. You will have a ****load of explaining to do if you show up at international arrivals without a passport

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are virtual exit checks done using the API. And on E* it is done in person.

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[WestCoast]

There are virtual exit checks done using the API. And on E* it is done in person.

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Eurostar staff simply swipe your passport/ID card to collect information, kind of like what happens when you go to a manual check-in at the airport.
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Yeah, trying to blag your way around airport security to get a ride on a people mover doesn't really sound a very sensible thing to do. I wouldn't go making suggestions like that to people either.

The reason why it's such a problem is that the UK requires the physical separation of arriving and departing passengers. It's not a problem in e.g. Zurich because they don't have that rule.

 

[fowler9]

Eurostar staff simply swipe your passport/ID card to collect information, kind of like what happens when you go to a manual check-in at the airport.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The reason why it's such a problem is that the UK requires the physical separation of arriving and departing passengers. It's not a problem in e.g. Zurich because they don't have that rule.

Yeah, I just meant the one at Heathrow.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Eurostar staff simply swipe your passport/ID card to collect information, kind of like what happens when you go to a manual check-in at the airport.

Yes, that's how API is done in that case because the ticketing system doesn't provide for it, and it is supplied to Border Force as an exit check. There will therefore be a record of your exit.

The reason why it's such a problem is that the UK requires the physical separation of arriving and departing passengers. It's not a problem in e.g. Zurich because they don't have that rule.

CH does as well, it just trusts people from certain specified origins, one of which is the UK, another of which is all of Schengen, whereas the UK does not trust any other country's security (if OTOH you fly domestic at many airports you'll just exit straight into the departure lounge). At Geneva, for example, if you don't come from one of those trusted origins you get bussed to a different arrivals area that doesn't dump you into the terminal (the UK flights sometimes use that one if they end up at a bus gate).

Airports like LHR having airside transit not requiring passing through the UK Border have some added complexities because of people being in departures who have not legally entered the UK - those that don't tend to (though not always) just have a way through to domestic arrivals from the departure lounge.

 

[swt class 450]

I am just thinking would it have been a better idea to have seperate security and passport control for each sub terminal at T5? If they did this then the transit would be available for use by anyone. It could possibly make it a bit more simple and the airport wouldnt have to worry as much about seperating departing and arriving passengers?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am just thinking would it have been a better idea to have seperate security and passport control for each sub terminal at T5? If they did this then the transit would be available for use by anyone. It could possibly make it a bit more simple and the airport wouldnt have to worry as much about seperating departing and arriving passengers?

Schiphol have just switched *away* from that approach.

It wouldn't allow non-separation of departing and arriving passengers, FWIW, this is required for both security *and* immigration reasons.

 

[gsnedders]

the UK does not trust any other country's security (if OTOH you fly domestic at many airports you'll just exit straight into the departure lounge)

The UK trusts the CTA, as far as I'm aware. So the Republic of Ireland is a pedant's proof that they trust some other country's security.

(Personally, it's one of my massive annoyances: it makes Heathrow a far less desirable transit airport for passengers from the rest of the EU.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Eurostar staff simply swipe your passport/ID card to collect information, kind of like what happens when you go to a manual check-in at the airport.

Yes, and that information is sent to Border Force to confirm you left the UK - as such it is an exit check.

The reason why it's such a problem is that the UK requires the physical separation of arriving and departing passengers. It's not a problem in e.g. Zurich because they don't have that rule.

Geneva does except for a few trusted countries plus Schengen. One such country is the UK. Others are bussed to a segregated arrivals area. I'd bet Zuerich is the same, as airport security in CH is done by the Police it is likely to be consistent.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The UK trusts the CTA, as far as I'm aware. So the Republic of Ireland is a pedant's proof that they trust some other country's security.

I don't believe, though am willing to be proven wrong, that the UK trusts Ireland's airport passenger security, which is what is under discussion here.

The only way you will arrive into a UK airport inside security is if you have taken a domestic flight. CTA flights are not treated as domestic, they go through a special channel.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Yes, and that information is sent to Border Force to confirm you left the UK - as such it is an exit check.

Though given the number of people who are apparently using the trick in this thread unquestioned, it's clear that they don't cross reference entries with that data. Perhaps they don't want to inconvenience people who swim to France and return by air.

 

[AlterEgo]

I am just thinking would it have been a better idea to have seperate security and passport control for each sub terminal at T5? If they did this then the transit would be available for use by anyone. It could possibly make it a bit more simple and the airport wouldnt have to worry as much about seperating departing and arriving passengers?

But security and passport control are separate at T5. Passports are done at the gate, if required.

What you propose is to - I guess - keep security away from the transit, just so you can ride it. The system works well as it is; I used T5 about 40 times last year.

 

[Mojo]

But security and passport control are separate at T5. Passports are done at the gate, if required.

What you propose is to - I guess - keep security away from the transit, just so you can ride it. The system works well as it is; I used T5 about 40 times last year.

It doesn't make any sense. In order to meet this requirement, firstly the transit would need to be extended as it currently departs from airside. Each terminal would need its own check in desks and baggage system, in addition to a security screening area.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Checking in doesn't create an airside/landside transfer, so actually just security and border control would be fine. Not that that's any less daft.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I am just thinking would it have been a better idea to have seperate security and passport control for each sub terminal at T5? If they did this then the transit would be available for use by anyone. It could possibly make it a bit more simple and the airport wouldn't have to worry as much about separating departing and arriving passengers?

No, that would be an extremely daft idea, because of the way Terminal 5 is designed. You go through security before entering T5A, where the main leisure, lounge and retail facilities are, and the transit shuttle is simply there to prevent a long walk to the satellite gates. Having three security lines would just make things more complicated. You'd have to go through security to go shopping in the main T5A and then go through it a second time when you get to the satellite gate. Bear in mind that any plane can depart from any of the three parts of the terminal, with the exception of UK domestic flight arrivals, so if you choose wrong you'd have to go through security a third or even a fourth time.

The transit is not designed for "use by anyone", it is designed for air passengers using gates at T5B and T5C to save them a walk. Heathrow don't want "anyone" in their airport, they want paying air passengers in their airport.

Conformance at T5 is carried out electronically. When you go through the security barrier you scan your boarding card and a photograph is taken of you. That photograph is then compared to your face by the gate agent when you present at the gate for boarding.

If you want to ride the transit, you buy an air ticket. BA are selling seats on UK domestic flights for £40.

 

[Clip]

If you want to ride the transit, you buy an air ticket. BA are selling seats on UK domestic flights for £40.

Quite. I find it amazing, especially after watching the video of it, that anyone would want to do the whole of it just to say they have done it. It looks proper crap in all honesty

 

[swt class 450]

Why exactly do airports not want departing and arriving passengers together? Surely if the airports requires everyone to go through security to enter and go through passport control to exit than their would be no problem with departing and arriving passengers being together? I cant see any issues that could happen?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why exactly do airports not want departing and arriving passengers together? Surely if the airports requires everyone to go through security to enter and go through passport control to exit than their would be no problem with departing and arriving passengers being together? I cant see any issues that could happen?

Two issues.

1. Airports do not require everyone to go through passport control to exit. You do not go through passport control on arrival from a domestic flight. Indeed, at airports without airside transit (e.g. Luton) the departure hall is considered part of the UK - you have not left the UK by being there, and if you had to go back out you wouldn't pass passport control. (I think at Luton it's by escort only, but some airports have exits from the terminal to domestic arrivals instead - Edinburgh for instance does).

2. The UK operates a very high standard of airport security, and does not trust that from other countries where the standard may be (and often is) lower. If you arrive in a UK airport on a domestic flight, you are often *not* segregated from departing passengers because other UK airports *are* trusted. That happens certainly at Edinburgh, but there are others too.

 

[swt class 450]

Two issues.

1. Airports do not require everyone to go through passport control to exit. You do not go through passport control on arrival from a domestic flight. Indeed, at airports without airside transit (e.g. Luton) the departure hall is considered part of the UK - you have not left the UK by being there, and if you had to go back out you wouldn't pass passport control. (I think at Luton it's by escort only, but some airports have exits from the terminal to domestic arrivals instead - Edinburgh for instance does).

2. The UK operates a very high standard of airport security, and does not trust that from other countries where the standard may be (and often is) lower. If you arrive in a UK airport on a domestic flight, you are often *not* segregated from departing passengers because other UK airports *are* trusted. That happens certainly at Edinburgh, but there are others too.

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Airports seem to be very complicating. So what happens with passengers who are just changing airplanes at an airport in the UK? Do they have to go through passport control and out in to the airport and then back in through security?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Airports seem to be very complicating. So what happens with passengers who are just changing airplanes at an airport in the UK? Do they have to go through passport control and out in to the airport and then back in through security?

At airports offering airside transit e.g. Heathrow, no passport control but there is dedicated transfer security. At those not offering it e.g. Luton, yes (except, in some cases, inbound domestic flights).


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[swt class 450]

I just found another interesting video which has been uploaded on Youtube here - https://youtu.be/v3Ztw2XfHGA - of the Heathrow transit train.

 

[berneyarms]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Airports seem to be very complicating. So what happens with passengers who are just changing airplanes at an airport in the UK? Do they have to go through passport control and out in to the airport and then back in through security?

Both Heathrow and Gatwick have an extra layer of security to separate domestic and Common Travel Area passengers from other passengers.

Their photograph is taken at the entrance to security and then matched to another photo taken at the departure gate.

This is because those passengers now share the same departures lounge as all international passengers and UK Border Force want to make sure that no international passengers enter the UK/CTA illegally by, for example, swapping boarding passes with a domestic passenger.

Security at Heathrow is very tight and quite rightly so. It's there to keep unwanted people out.

A good reason to be "complicating" I would suggest.

 

[mark-h]

Airports do not require everyone to go through passport control to exit. You do not go through passport control on arrival from a domestic flight. Indeed, at airports without airside transit (e.g. Luton) the departure hall is considered part of the UK - you have not left the UK by being there, and if you had to go back out you wouldn't pass passport control. (I think at Luton it's by escort only, but some airports have exits from the terminal to domestic arrivals instead - Edinburgh for instance does).

At Edinburgh passengers connecting from an international (non UK/Common Travel Area) flight have to go through immigration to get landside and then go through security to get airside. This adds to the connecting time and makes things complex for passengers without permission to enter the UK.

Since all passengers in Edinburgh enter the departure lounge from landside or from a UK domestic flight there is not any issue to letting them leave the terminal without a passport check.

At Heathrow and Gatwick passengers connecting from an international flight to another international flight do not have to enter the UK (go through immigration). As such the passengers in the departure lounge have not entered the UK and are not able to leave the terminal without going through immigration.

At Heathrow and Gatwick departing domestic and Common Travel Area passengers have their photographs taken to identify them when they board the aircraft so that only passengers who entered from landside, or have gone through immigration, are able to take domestic flights. The alternative would be to have a separate UK departure lounge like the one they used to have at Terminal 1 at LHR.


Note- security and immigration are two different procedures all departing passengers from UK airports must have gone through a DfT approved security checkpoint. Since these are only found in the UK then all non-domestic connecting passengers need to go through security.

 

[EAD]

Just to add a point on airport design. The UK as has been pointed out goes for complete segregation between departing and arriving passengers. This also happens at many other airports outside the UK.

However, many top class airports e.g. Singapore's Changi (SIN), Munich's FJS (MUC) have a common secure airside area inside the terminal. Clearly this reflects the relevant country's rules and happiness with the security arrangements for inbound passengers from country X. In order to go through immigration you leave that area and cannot return.

This is very useful for connecting passengers as you can come off one plane and then walk (if in same terminal) to your next gate and await boarding e.g. at Munich if T2 (Star Alliance) then you can happily do a connection in 40 minutes. Of course immigration is a different matter and if going from ex Schengen (e.g. UK) to Schengen you will pass through a separate passport control as part of the connections route - in Munich T2 there are two separate floors (H and G gates) for Schengen and non-Schengen, so if passing between the two for connections you are also security screened again. At Singapore, in contrast to the trend elsewhere, security is done at the gates so you will always be re-checked before your next flight.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Geneva trusts the security of certain countries and thus arrivals are sometimes straight into the terminal - the UK is one such country.

 

[Airline Man]

I work in Terminal 5. You can also walk from T5A to T5B and T5C via the adjacent tunnel. It's earily quiet and spooky as well as surprisingly wide. Very few people know it exists never mind use it. All you'll ever see are the buggies taking wheelchair passengers to and from flights and the very occasional member of staff.

I do use it for the peace and quiet and exercise and it's also a good way to avoid angry passengers during periods of disruption who like to bite our heads off if eye contact is made. You can hear the 'trains' whilst walking the the tunnel.

 

[swt class 450]

If anyone is interested i have just found this very interesting video of the Heathrow Airport T5A T5B T5C Transit Train system.

https://youtu.be/wxyonP2j134

It gives a very interesting and informative behind the scenes look at the Transit Train system