Today's Pet hate - tipping & self service

[Bletchleyite]

The problem I have is that it is my suspicion that the included service charge payment simply goes to the owner as an extra profit charge and little, if any of it, reaches the person you expect it to.

The way to deal with that is to up the minimum wage rather than relying on the workaround of the customer leaving cash.

 

[DarloRich]

The way to deal with that is to up the minimum wage rather than relying on the workaround of the customer leaving cash.

of course - but that wont happen anytime soon.

 

[Greenback]

I dislike tipping, though I;m prepared to accept it;s existence as a way of thanking or rewarding someone who has gone the extra mile (I don't really like that phrase either and here I am using it!) when providing a service. I don't really understand why some professions receive tips, seemingly as a matter of course, and others don't/

I hate service charges, though. As far as I'm concerned that is a totally different thing to giving someone a tip. Service charges should be incorporated into the pricing structure unless the money raised all gets distributed between staff. If that is the case, then it should not be down to the customer to ask for it to be removed. It shouldn't be there at all, and it should be left to the customer to decide how much, if anything, they want to give as a tip.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Tipping in itself creates anomalies: why tip on the total cost of a meal? Two plates of food a £15 each surely take as much effort to deliver to the table as two £30 plates of food, yet one attracts a higher "standard" tip. Tap water takes as much effort to bring to the table as a beer, yet one would merit a tip.

I would be pleased to see tipping abolished and a proper living wage introduced.

 

[me123]

I think there's an important voice that's been missing in this discussion so far.

There must be some people here who work in service, or if not people who have worked in service. Would you guys prefer the status quo, or a situation with higher wages and no/minimal tips?

 

[Senex]

Tipping in itself creates anomalies: why tip on the total cost of a meal? Two plates of food a £15 each surely take as much effort to deliver to the table as two £30 plates of food, yet one attracts a higher "standard" tip. Tap water takes as much effort to bring to the table as a beer, yet one would merit a tip.

I would be pleased to see tipping abolished and a proper living wage introduced.

I agree. There are also all sorts of other anomalies. An extreme one might be that if a hairdresser/barber deserves a tip, then why not an optician, dentist, or GP. If a cab-driver, who does nothing but drive and is paid by a meter that takes account of delays etc etc, then why not the shop-assistant who goes and gets something from the storeroom for you when there isn't one on the shelves? If a waiter, then why not the bookseller who gives you professional advice when you are considering what to buy?

It's all a hangover from a time when tradesmen and servants were expected to know their place and be grateful the little bit extra handed out when they duly touched their caps. It has no place in the modern world.

 

[DelayRepay]

I thought I posted this the other day but....

My sister has two jobs - in the week she's a carer visiting elderly and disabled clients to help get them out of bed, get into bed, wash, dress, prepare their meals etc. This job used to pay minimum wage but recently her pay increased to living wage, which I think was a requirement of the council when they re-tendered the contract. Obviously this job does not generate tips beyond the occasional box of chocolates on her birthday. In fact she is not allowed to accept gifts. When she was due to go on maternity leave, one of her regular clients knitted a few bits for the baby and there were all sorts of forms which had to be filled in as a result!

Her other job, on Sundays is working as a waitress in a pub. This job also pays minimum wage but she gets regular tips, so this job is actually better paying than the care worker job. Note that both jobs involve serving food!

I think she would rather have a higher wage from the pub and no tips; the value of tips is variable so cannot be relied on as a source of income. They have to go in a pot to be shared between all staff, so even those who don't give good service benefit from the tips of those who do. And the pub manager has decided to use the tip jar to make up any shortages in the tills or cover the cost of wasted stock (wrong meal cooked etc) and discounts given to resolve complaints! When she left this job to have the baby, a few of the regulars bought her small gifts, and the manager was cheeky enough to suggest she should put the cash value into the tip jar to be shared with everyone else!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If a cab-driver, who does nothing but drive and is paid by a meter that takes account of delays etc etc ...

We should tip train drivers. When we leave the train we should form a queue to hand £1 coins through the cab window. Or to speed things up, drivers could be issued with a machine to deduct their tips from our oyster cards and contactless bank cards....

 

[ExRes]

I'm not sure if the point has already been raised on here but, people expect to and seemingly 'happily' give tips to a cab driver and while I have taken day excursions from a cruise ship there has always been somebody rushing round the coach asking for money to tip the driver, why is it that not one single person ever offered me a tip when they got off my train?

Sorry senex, just seen your edit from a few minutes ago

 

[DelayRepay]

I'm not sure if the point has already been raised on here but, people expect to and seemingly 'happily' give tips to a cab driver and while I have taken day excursions from a cruise ship there has always been somebody rushing round the coach asking for money to tip the driver, why is it that not one single person ever offered me a tip when they got off my train?

If someone came and shoved a fiver through your cab window, how would you react?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

It's all a hangover from a time when tradesmen and servants were expected to know their place and be grateful the little bit extra handed out when they duly touched their caps. It has no place in the modern world.

That and it was originally a symbol of wealth - people would tip waiting staff when they got to a restaurant to get themselves better service for the evening.

I'm not sure if the point has already been raised on here but, people expect to and seemingly 'happily' give tips to a cab driver and while I have taken day excursions from a cruise ship there has always been somebody rushing round the coach asking for money to tip the driver, why is it that not one single person ever offered me a tip when they got off my train?

There are stories from the 1800s of wealthy passengers 'tipping' drivers to make a fast run, I'm sure at least one serious crash in that era was alleged to have occurred when a driver oversped for that reason.

 

[fowler9]

I tipped a bus driver at Christmas once, he looked at me like I was of unsound mind.

 

[Tom B]

For those who have visited the USA, how does it go down if you refuse to pay a service charge?

 

[ExRes]

If someone came and shoved a fiver through your cab window, how would you react?

I'd probably have come over all peculiar and needed relieving ......
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For those who have visited the USA, how does it go down if you refuse to pay a service charge?

Very badly indeed , it is not to be advised

 

[Senex]

We should tip train drivers. When we leave the train we should form a queue to hand £1 coins through the cab window. Or to speed things up, drivers could be issued with a machine to deduct their tips from our oyster cards and contactless bank cards....

And similarly for our bus drivers, of course.

 

[AlterEgo]

For those who have visited the USA, how does it go down if you refuse to pay a service charge?

I've never tried it, in a restaurant. But I have not tipped in several establishments. In American Airlines lounges you get given free drinks chits to redeem at the bar, except they expect you to tip the bartender.... Naturally at the end of my trip I had pretty much nothing left to give so I didn't tip. Nothing happened.

(They probably bitched about me later though)

 

[me123]

For those who have visited the USA, how does it go down if you refuse to pay a service charge?

I once didn't tip in a restaurant in the US, and just left. No ramifications, although I was quite keen to get away (the service was dire and the staff were exceptionally rude!) and didn't hang around for long. I suppose that this would be the usual situation - you are just going to leave. There is no law in the US requiring you to tip.

One of my friends reports that, when he was younger, his parents took him to America and on the first night went to a restaurant and tipped the standard ~10% (as they would do in the UK). The waiter allegedly then confronted them to ask what was wrong with the service and demanded to know why the tip was as low. So I think that on the whole Americans would have no problem in challenging a low/missing tip (whereas in the UK no-one would say anything, at least not to your face).

 

[IanD]

I have 2 pet hates with service charges:

i) a chain of self service buffet restaurants adds a 10% service charge to the bill. Surely as I have served myself, that should go to me or be a discount. I always get it removed.

ii) when pubs/restaurants say "For parties over (eg) 6 a 10% service charge will be added to the bill". Why should it? They'd probably be spending more than 6 times more than an individual diner. Maybe there's a bit of rushing about by the kitchen and serving staff to get everything out at the same time but so what. It's as if they don't want the extra custom. If I'm the organiser I will ask for it to be removed then it's up to everyone else in the group to decide if and how much they want to tip.

 

[ComUtoR]

ii) when pubs/restaurants say "For parties over (eg) 6 a 10% service charge will be added to the bill".

Tell them your two parties of three and want two bills

 

[Springs Branch]

For those who have visited the USA, how does it go down if you refuse to pay a service charge?

I lived in the US for a number of years. I generally managed to get my head around the day-to-day tipping customs and the associated mental arithmetic, with only two faux pas coming to mind.....

• On a business trip with a colleague who was visiting from the Czech Republic (on her first time in the USA), we arrived at our hotel too late for dinner in the restaurant, but still able to order supper from room service. I ordered our meals by phone and my companion came to my room so we could eat together. In due course there was a knock at the door, my colleague answered, collected the tray, said "Thank you very much" and slammed the door. By the time I asked "did you remember to tip?" it was too late, the server had disappeared.
  
  The consequence was that for the rest of our three-day stay, I didn't get my room serviced, towels changed etc. The perpetrator, in her own room nearby, of course got housekeeping as normal.
  
  Admittedly I could have rung the housekeeping department and complained (in true Amercian style), but I can manage with one set of towels for a couple of days, don't really need someone else to make my bed, and who knows what subtle retribution might have occured if the hotel staff actually came into my room?
  
  
• On another occasion years ago, checking out from a downtown hotel in a large US city, I needed a cab. The hotel doorman, a large, impressively-uniformed African-American guy, "called" the cab (which involved him waving to the front car in the waiting line of taxis) - so obviously needed a tip for his "service". I had no $1 bills on me, but did have a Susan B. Anthony dollar coin, which I slipped to the doorman. "Hey", he yelled at me angrily, "what do you call this!" "It's a dollar" I replied. He looked at it. "Oh. Yeah. I thought you'd given me one of your limey foreign coins".

I have read that the reason the US has retained paper $1 bills, rather than switching to a coin for this relatively low denomination, is because of the tipping culture. It somehow looks better to hand over a few paper dollar bills for a tip rather than a couple of cheapskate coins.

Similarly the reason the US has been slow in the uptake of chip & pin and contactless credit cards is because transactions with these do not facilitate tipping as easily as signing a paper slip with a convenient spot to write in your tip and the final total.

 

[Kite159]

I think one of the issues regarding low tips in America is that the staff are taxed on the "expected" tip, so by giving less than the expected tip (ie 20%) you are costing them money.

(From a country which taxes Olympic Winners for winning medals and takes a large amount of tax from lottery wins, plus tries to take a share of any foreign earnings)

 

[krus_aragon]

A small note on the issue of minimum wages and tipping:

In parts of Canada, where a legal minimum wage exists, there is a separate (lower) minimum wage for waiting staff, as it is expected that they will receive tips to supplement their wages.

 

[J-2739]

What do you make of this generous tip?
Extra here=http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/stunned-waiter-given-%c2%a3400-tip-with-note-from-customer-who-bought-bottle-of-water/ar-BBvQoWv?ocid=spartandhp
Part quote:

A waiter was left stunned after being tipped £400 by a mystery customer who bought the cheapest item on the menu.

The woman had spent just 30p on a bottle of water but tipped Kasey Simmons a life-changing amount of money.

A thank you note written on a napkin was left with the tip and explained it was a reward for an act of kindness carried out by Mr Simmons the day before.

Speaking on Facebook, 32-year-old said: "I felt undeserving of the tip being I gave them the most embarrassing service ever.

"It's almost like two people fighting over the bill at one of my tables, I would've argued that much of a tip if they were still there but they were not anywhere to be found.

I find this heart-warming and generous, despite the 'embarrassing service', but what's your views?

 

[fowler9]

No one should need tipping as a matter of course, their employer should pay them enough to live on. Not got a problem with someone tipping for good service though.

Back in the real world I tip bar staff and waiters because they don't get paid enough. I don't tip taxi drivers because they make a better living than me.

 

[me123]

What do you make of this generous tip (and not in the US as well!)?

The waiter, who works at Applebee's restaurant in Dallas, USA

It was in the US.

It is a nice story, and it goes into one of the positive things about tipping - tipping is a way of thanking people for good service. In this example, it wasn't within the establishment which is a very off doing things, but it's always heartwarming to see that there are good people in the world.

I would worry about tipping someone for something outside their realm of work that they wouldn't get all the money, but I see that Appleby's apparently do allow their staff to keep tips.

 

[richw]

Back in the real world I tip bar staff and waiters because they don't get paid enough. I don't tip taxi drivers because they make a better living than me.

Taxi driver takings varies hugely. I was talking to a driver recently. Because of the excessive number of licences his authority handed out, I was the first passenger he'd had from the rank in an hour. Self employed owner driver. My fare was £4.50, so that's his income for the hour less fuel etc he probably was at a loss!

 

[fowler9]

Taxi driver takings varies hugely. I was talking to a driver recently. Because of the excessive number of licences his authority handed out, I was the first passenger he'd had from the rank in an hour. Self employed owner driver. My fare was £4.50, so that's his income for the hour less fuel etc he probably was at a loss!

I know it varies hugely, several mates drive them. They all earn more than me as a manager. It depends where and when you are willing to work. When my mate is working nights at weekends and Bank Holidays he can take most of the rest of the time off. One of them gave me a lift to mine from his house the other day, he made £30 driving home in about 30 mins.

 

[Greenback]

I have a couple of mates who are taxi drivers too. Even back in the days when I lived in Reading I was friendly with a cabbie. It's not an easy way of making a living, but there are some good rewards to be had. For one of my friends, school contracts and parcel delivery help to bring in a good income.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Tell them your two parties of three and want two bills

The forum meal solution

 

[Butts]

My word what a bunch of "tightwad socialists" we have on here - so much for solidarity with the workers

My daughter used to work in TGI Fridays and the tips (which they received) were variable - some nights nothing others £40,50,60 and exceptionally £100 plus. She often earned a lot more in tips than salary.

Taxi drivers used to get out and open the door for you , nowadays you are lucky if they open the boot to put your luggage in !! I would only round it to the nearest pound unless they were exceptional.

Restaurants I would tip 10-20% if the service was good. I feel sorry for the waiters in Wetherspoons type places where you pay for the food at the bar in advance. A non-tippers nirvana.

When I was a child and we used to go to Butlins etc there was always a tradition of tipping your waitress on the last meal of the week. Amazing how many wads failed to turn up for Breakfast on the day of departure

With regard to Cruises it seems a lot of people have not been exposed to the culture onboard. There is normally a fixed fee per person per day which is added to your onboard account. In most cases it can be removed at your discretion. When you order a drink onboard there is often a 15% service charge added (not negotiable) and they leave a space for you to add a further gratuity as well !! Americans are to blame for this, even on cruises where gratuities are included they still tip putting pressure on others to follow suit. In the cruising fraternity Australians are renowned as the tightest tippers and I believe as a result of this P&O Australia have a separate policy.

Hairdressers I would add about a quid to my £7 "No 3"

In olden times Postman,Milkmen,Bin Men and Paperboys(me included) used to get tipped at Christmas. Frequent change of personnel and lack services in some cases have largely put a stop to this. My son who is a Postman did get a few odd bits and pieces.

I liked the earlier post referring to binmen being left a crate of beer in days gone by. They would probably have finished it (driver included) before they got back to the depot

 

[yorkie]

Butts - how much do you 'tip' the VTEC staff who serve all those complimentary drinks you have?