Roof panel falls onto Southern passengers

[sciisfun]

This is the second time in less than a year that a Southern 455 has experienced a catastrophic material failure that, in different circumstances, could've resulted in serious injury or death (see also the spontaneous 455 decoupling last year.) This should, quite simply, not be happening.

Serious questions should now be asked about the maintenance regime and condition of these units. Perhaps RAIB should be informed?

not sure that a panel falling a catastrophic failure, a few half turn fasteners not properly locked is all it takes. They look like GRP panels, as long as they're finished properly shouldn't be too dangerous (unfinished panels cut like knives! been putting in new roof lights on a warehouse today and my hands aren't pretty!)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How would the world cope without sticky back plastic!

Indeed.....

Now a question here, is this a safety issue? Should these doors be fixed open if they fail or should the carriage have been removed from the rake?

 

[Deepgreen]

Possibly but without being there it is impossible to know, maybe passengers just moved out of the affected area?

Not according to the picture on the BBC news site showing the panel propped up in the aisle and passengers still sitting all around it.

 

[jon0844]

Been on many trains with doors locked open or even missing (some GN 317s). I once thought there was an issue with fire regulations but it seems not.

The other day I was walking through a 365 and the gangway doors were taped up with an 'out of use' sticker on them. I assume the sensor was broken and hope they could still be prised open in an emergency or surely that train should have been taken out of service?

Ended up chatting to an RPI because neither of us could walk through!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Been on many trains with doors locked open or even missing (some GN 317s). I once thought there was an issue with fire regulations but it seems not.

I was thinking more of the possibility of the tape failing and the door suddenly shutting heavily on someone passing through it at the time; given the new generation of walk-through designs it's fairly clear that there are no fire regulation issues.

 

[Bald Rick]

First they can't keep the carriages together, now they can't keep a panel up. Is it normal for something like this to happen and for the train to stay in service?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/southern-rail-commuters-hurt-as-ceiling-of-rush-hour-train-carriage-crashes-to-floor-a3323611.html

Very lucky no one was hurt. As for no first aider - only if there was a job which can do first aid...

I gather from someone involved that there was a first aider at East Croydon, and several at Victoria. First aid was declined by those affected.

 

[dcsprior]

I was on this train, one carriage behind the affected one, this meant a largeish proportion of those moved out of that carriage came into mine, and none of them seemed particularly distressed - in fact the only grumble I heard was why those at the other end of the carriage couldn't remain where they were.

Things were probably made better by the fact the train seemed very quiet given the time of day - I was towards the back of the queue boarding at East Croydon but there were 2 neighbouring seats together free when I got on.

 

[northwichcat]

but I like the fact that the lady in question has managed to reach a diagnosis in a very short time post incident and talk to the media. It just brings a wry smile to my face.

Given she mentioned a bruised arm, we know bruising doesn't appear immediately and changes colour quickly so it's easy to tell when any bruising happened. I also haven't heard of people being unable to talk about what happened due to bruising.

 

[EAD]

Given she mentioned a bruised arm, we know bruising doesn't appear immediately and changes colour quickly so it's easy to tell when any bruising happened. I also haven't heard of people being unable to talk about what happened due to bruising.

Indeed - I think possibly my comments in jest are being taken a bit to heart here, but I may be wrong (always hard to tell in writing!). For me it is not a significant event - unpleasant and it should not happen, but in this day and age of course it gets quick media attention for what is most likely a panel that was not re-fixed securely.

 

[jon0844]

I was thinking more of the possibility of the tape failing and the door suddenly shutting heavily on someone passing through it at the time; given the new generation of walk-through designs it's fairly clear that there are no fire regulation issues.

But trains with open gangways are designed with fire (or smoke) in mind from the outset, and have methods to extract it. I assume an old Mk3 carriage doesn't.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

So the Southern 455s are a death trap. They were built in 1982/3 using parts from 1930s/40s 4SUBs and after 30odd years in frontline service, maintenance staff have decided enough is enough - lets make them fall apart so that we can have some more of those lovely new 377s

I'm sure had the poor girls been hurt, the lawyers/media would be having a field day with Southern

 

[Antman]

So the Southern 455s are a death trap. They were built in 1982/3 using parts from 1930s/40s 4SUBs and after 30odd years in frontline service, maintenance staff have decided enough is enough - lets make them fall apart so that we can have some more of those lovely new 377s

I'm sure had the poor girls been hurt, the lawyers/media would be having a field day with Southern

You mean the lawyers/media would have done their job?

One isolated incident hardly makes these trains a death trap, I travel on them regularly.

 

[jon0844]

One isolated incident hardly makes these trains a death trap, I travel on them regularly.

Just don't scare them or make too much eye contact. It could turn on you in an instant!

 

[Via Bank]

You mean the lawyers/media would have done their job?

One isolated incident hardly makes these trains a death trap, I travel on them regularly.

Let us not forget the unit that spontaneously divided last year (mercifully running as ECS.)

One isolated incident? Maybe not a problem. Two potentially very dangerous failures, neither of which should ever really happen, within twelve months? Far be it from me to say, but at the very least there should be a thorough investigation into how this was allowed to happen, and whether this is symptomatic of flaws in the maintenance regime or the trains' condition.

 

[jamesst]

You'd think the actual roof of the train had caved in rather than a panel coming loose! People don't half love to embellish a story these days!

 

[Rick1984]

The other day I was walking through a 365 and the gangway doors were taped up with an 'out of use' sticker on them. I assume the sensor was broken and hope they could still be prised open in an emergency or surely that train should have been taken out of service?

I couldn't get through to the toilet on a 365 other day. Turns out you had to wave hand across sensor.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

One isolated incident hardly makes these trains a death trap, I travel on them regularly.

You missed the smileys at the end, it was a joke...

And yes I have travelled on them for years too....

 

[northwichcat]

You'd think the actual roof of the train had caved in rather than a panel coming loose! People don't half love to embellish a story these days!

So you don't it's worth reporting unless the incident is so bad the entire fleet gets grounded?

I wonder what the response on here would have been if the train had a guard and they were standing right under the panel when it came down. I bet we would have been talking about possible industrial action over Southern making their employees work in an unsafe working environment.

 

[Flamingo]

So you don't it's worth reporting unless the incident is so bad the entire fleet gets grounded?

I wonder what the response on here would have been if the train had a guard and they were standing right under the panel when it came down. I bet we would have been talking about possible industrial action over Southern making their employees work in an unsafe working environment.

Southern would probably say that it's another reason for DOO, as if there was no staff there, then they couldn't be injured...

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Southern would probably say that it's another reason for DOO, as if there was no staff there, then they couldn't be injured...

And don't forget, this happened on a DOO train.

 

[Flamingo]

And don't forget, this happened on a DOO train.

Exactly. Southern have the staff's best interests at heart, and taking their H&S responsibilities to their staff so seriously that they are keeping them out of harms way. The nasty RMT obviously wish their staff to be exposed to risks!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Exactly. Southern have the staff's best interests at heart, and taking their H&S responsibilities to their staff so seriously that they are keeping them out of harms way. The nasty RMT obviously wish their staff to be exposed to risks!

OMG yes I can just imagine the RMT's response if a roof panel falls onto a conductor/guard on a Class 377 mainline service

 

[Flamingo]

OMG yes I can just imagine the RMT's response if a roof panel falls onto a conductor/guard on a Class 377 mainline service

Probably deathly silence. Apart from the H&S rep, the HSE would be more concerned, but then only if time is lost off work.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Probably deathly silence. Apart from the H&S rep, the HSE would be more concerned, but then only if time is lost off work.

Of course the unfortunate conductor/guard will take time off work following their trauma and the RMT will want to make the wearing of tin/hard hats by conductor/guards mandatory and send them on "hazard awareness" training.

Oh I forgot, all the safety critical stuff is being removed from their duties

 

[Flamingo]

Of course the unfortunate conductor/guard will take time off work following their trauma and the RMT will want to make the wearing of tin/hard hats by conductor/guards mandatory and send them on "hazard awareness" training.

Oh I forgot, all the safety critical stuff is being removed from their duties

You might be surprised at what the average Guard puts up with, or accepts without viewing it as an excuse to get out of work. Usually, management are telling us that we have to put in reports, while a lot of staff want to avoid the paperwork.