Is the RMT out of control?

[AlterEgo]

I would say some RMT members are decently remunerated - that is the WHOLE POINT. I would suggest many ( perhaps not train guards) are not. I bet most of their members are not train guards. It is very frustrating when people seem unable to grasp that simple point. I also didn't realise that earnings defined your class or your political views.

Railway staff are on the whole decently paid. You only have to look at careers pages, look at the skills required for some jobs, and then see what other jobs people might be doing. It's not a race to the bottom argument, but I'm saying that railway wages are high for the marketplace. Of course the unions can claim great credit in helping push wages northwards. A good thing.

I wasn't referencing class or political views - just saying that when the RMT come out with the class struggle bullcrap it's entirely counterproductive. People instantly switch off, and it portrays the RMT as mud-slingers. (Which, to be fair, they are).

 

[DarloRich]

Railway staff are on the whole decently paid. You only have to look at careers pages, look at the skills required for some jobs, and then see what other jobs people might be doing. It's not a race to the bottom argument, but I'm saying that railway wages are high for the marketplace. Of course the unions can claim great credit in helping push wages northwards. A good thing.

I wasn't referencing class or political views - just saying that when the RMT come out with the class struggle bullcrap it's entirely counterproductive. People instantly switch off, and it portrays the RMT as mud-slingers. (Which, to be fair, they are).

I don't disagree generally. Although the track man on 18k a year or cleaner on a lower wage might not consider themselves well paid.

 

[Bromley boy]

Railway staff are on the whole decently paid. You only have to look at careers pages, look at the skills required for some jobs, and then see what other jobs people might be doing. It's not a race to the bottom argument, but I'm saying that railway wages are high for the marketplace. Of course the unions can claim great credit in helping push wages northwards. A good thing.

I wasn't referencing class or political views - just saying that when the RMT come out with the class struggle bullcrap it's entirely counterproductive. People instantly switch off, and it portrays the RMT as mud-slingers. (Which, to be fair, they are).

For balance, you should remember that many of these roles are highly responsible and safety critical, undertaken at anti-social hours and in working conditions that are far from ideal.

Platform staff, for example, are required to work outdoors in all weathers. Their shifts can be up to 12 hours long at all times of the day and night. When they are not dealing with irate passengers/dispatching trains (safety critical and enormously responsible) they are required to undertake overnight cleaning duties, including filthy toilets. For this, at my TOC, they earn a basic wage of just over £20k. They are subject to the same strict drug and alcohol regime as all other staff, and their shift patterns mean their social life has to bend around their jobs in a way that few people in other industries would understand.

The average office job paying an equivalent amount would be a junior clerical role probably involving a predictable Monday-Friday 9-5 in front of a computer in an air-conditioned office, with weekends and evenings free to be disposed of as the employee wishes.

I'm not sure many people in the latter type of role would be willing to trade places with the former...

 

[JohnB57]

For balance, you should remember that many of these roles are highly responsible and safety critical, undertaken at anti-social hours and in working conditions that are far from ideal.

Platform staff, for example are required to work outdoors in all weathers. Their shifts can be up to 12 hours long at all times of the day and night. When they are not dealing with irate passengers/dispatching trains (safety critical and enormously responsible) they are required to undertake overnight cleaning duties, including filthy toilets. For this, at my TOC, they earn a basic wage of just over £20k. They are subject to the same strict drug and alcohol regime as all other staff, and their shift patterns mean their social life has to bend around their jobs in a way that few people in other industries would understand.

The average office job paying an equivalent amount would be a junior clerical role probably involving a predictable Monday-Friday 9-5 in front of a computer in an air-conditioned office, with weekends and evenings free to be disposed of as the employee wishes.

I'm not sure many people in the latter type of role would be willing to trade places with the former...

So what's stopping the former from trading places with the latter?

 

[Domh245]

So what's stopping the former from trading places with the latter?

Mainly TOCs trying to get rid of platform staff for starters, or more kindly put, a lack of vacancies.

 

[Bromley boy]

So what's stopping the former from trading places with the latter?

I'm sure there are any number of reasons why people are happy to do a particular job for a particular salary.

I was responding to the previous comment re. salary levels for a given skill level to illustrate some reasons why railway jobs are far from the "typical" job.

 

[Smudger105e]

So what's stopping the former from trading places with the latter?

Thr same thing that is stopping people trading a train trip with a bus trip.

Of course people could change jobs, but surely its horses for courses. Most railway staff love their jobs, and some are poorly paid too, but continue despite this.

I will now no longer contribute to this thread as there seem to be several people trolling, and it has wsndered way off topic.

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk

 

[AlterEgo]

For balance, you should remember that many of these roles are highly responsible and safety critical, undertaken at anti-social hours and in working conditions that are far from ideal.

Platform staff, for example, are required to work outdoors in all weathers. Their shifts can be up to 12 hours long at all times of the day and night. When they are not dealing with irate passengers/dispatching trains (safety critical and enormously responsible) they are required to undertake overnight cleaning duties, including filthy toilets. For this, at my TOC, they earn a basic wage of just over £20k. They are subject to the same strict drug and alcohol regime as all other staff, and their shift patterns mean their social life has to bend around their jobs in a way that few people in other industries would understand.

The average office job paying an equivalent amount would be a junior clerical role probably involving a predictable Monday-Friday 9-5 in front of a computer in an air-conditioned office, with weekends and evenings free to be disposed of as the employee wishes.

I'm not sure many people in the latter type of role would be willing to trade places with the former...

Sorry but there are loads of jobs that require all of the above. The railway isn't really that special. Including a lot of ones where you're responsible for people's safety.

I wonder how much a ride operator at Alton Towers earns? Because if he doesn't do his job right, he kills people too. Safety critical - check. Antisocial hours - check. Cleaning duties - check. Drug and alcohol restrictions - don't know, but most likely.

Of course, the Alton Towers chap is going to be the underpaid one. And it's not a "railway staff are overpaid" argument. There is no such thing as overpaid. But I don't really think people can sit here and claim that the railway doesn't have good wages. The wages are very good for the job required, at most grades. (PS, that's why rail unions are so quick to wheel out the "this isn't about money" line!)

 

[BestWestern]

Sorry but there are loads of jobs that require all of the above. The railway isn't really that special. Including a lot of ones where you're responsible for people's safety.

I wonder how much a ride operator at Alton Towers earns? Because if he doesn't do his job right, he kills people too. Safety critical - check. Antisocial hours - check. Cleaning duties - check. Drug and alcohol restrictions - don't know, but most likely.

Of course, the Alton Towers chap is going to be the underpaid one. And it's not a "railway staff are overpaid" argument. There is no such thing as overpaid. But I don't really think people can sit here and claim that the railway doesn't have good wages. The wages are very good for the job required, at most grades. (PS, that's why rail unions are so quick to wheel out the "this isn't about money" line!)

Alton Towers employs inexperienced teenagers in those very responsible positions, in a way that no other industry would be likely to tolerate. It is also located in an area of very limited employment opportunities, which no doubt helps.

Yep, railway staff are well paid. That is thanks to the unions, and yes it seems to irritate the hell out of some people. We should consider, though, that when Mr Horton has succeeded in demoting all of his Guards, they will continue to be earning the same base salary and would essentially represent worse 'value for money' than they do as worthwhile safety critical staff. Presumably then the same chipped shoulder brigade will commence an 'anti OBS' tirade of abuse instead! Thankfully, most staff really don't overly care what others may or may not think of their salary, and are just happy to be fortunate enough to have earned their position and the renumeration that comes with it. Amen to that, and Foxtrot Oscar to the haters!

 

[Greenback]

I'm closing the thread now as it's run it's course.