Pendolino interior

[156443]

To be honest, I can't say I've really noticed it that much. Maybe it depends on which units you end up getting.

By the time the Voyagers get to Durham on the way to Newcastle usually the smell is really bad and is quite overwhelming inside the train, which is why I refuse to board them and will wait for a 43 or 91 no matter how long it takes. A few weeks ago waiting for a train to Darlington at Durham a Voyager pulled up on its way to the south somewhere, wasn't paying attention where was going and could smell it from the seats on the platform so waited until a non Voyager came and got that.


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[fowler9]

I think we have to look at how we judge these things. There are a lot of people who think Pendolinos are claustrophobic and a few who think they are fine, no one at all saying they think they feel a bit too spacious. There is obviously an issue. Same with the Voyagers. lots of people saying the noise and smell do their head in, a few say it doesn't really bother them, no one saying they wish it was louder or stank more. Obviously an issue.

 

[J-2739]

I think we have to look at how we judge these things. There are a lot of people who think Pendolinos are claustrophobic and a few who think they are fine, no one at all saying they think they feel a bit too spacious. There is obviously an issue. Same with the Voyagers. lots of people saying the noise and smell do their head in, a few say it doesn't really bother them, no one saying they wish it was louder or stank more. Obviously an issue.

Agree with your first point but the second one left me a bit confused: 'Wish it was louder or stank more'.

 

[fowler9]

Agree with your first point but the second one left me a bit confused: 'Wish it was louder or stank more'.

Sorry mate, I just read it again and confused myself. Hey, its Monday, I am weakened. Ha ha. I think I over egged the pudding.

 

[J-2739]

Sorry mate, I just read it again and confused myself. Hey, its Monday, I am weakened. Ha ha. I think I over egged the pudding.

Never mind, seen too much Voyagers eh?

After all, when you get used to something, you want a bit more out of it...

 

[fowler9]

Never mind, seen too much Voyagers eh?

After all, when you get used to something, you want a bit more out of it...

You know what, I'll go as far as to say I don't mind the odd Voyager for a bit of a change. If I am on for a long journey though I will always try and plan an advanced first.

 

[xc170]

My friends, dads, uncles, brother once used a Voyager and said the he could smell the toilet before the train even arrived, so for that reason, voyagers are the root of all evil and I refuse to travel on them.

 

[shaun]

Voyagers in standard are the hardest IC trains on the network to have a snooze on, mainly due to the poor legroom and seat spacing. If there was more space between seats, they would probably be alot more comfortable. As they are, I'm not a fan. Some of them really make a right racket too. Pendolinos on the other hand, are a little quieter and the small windows no longer really bother me. What does bother me is again the seat spacing and the missing armrest on all the window seats! Why were they designed like that?!

Both classes are fine in FC, although inferior to the excellent refurb jobs on MK3/MK4 coaching stock. Wider seats, curtains and bigger tables.

 

[J-2739]

My friends, dads, uncles, brother once used a Voyager and said the he could smell the toilet before the train even arrived, so for that reason, voyagers are the root of all evil and I refuse to travel on them.

Lol , about a week ago, a 222 pulled up on the platform at Sheffield and opened its doors. It reeked so badly I thought about putting my head in a 142 for some nice 'Pacer' air!

 

[MrCub]

Today I went to Birmingham, standard class, on a Pendo (£10.50 advance). I returned on a Chiltern Silver train (£9 advance). The Pendo was prob 40% full; the Chiltern closer to 80%. The Pendo was a hideous experience. I felt sick, hot, bothered, and hemmed in. I couldn't wait to get off. I've travelled in First many times and have never felt *this* bad.

I felt fine on the Chiltern Silver and the journey, despite being longer and more crowded, whooshed by. It was extremely pleasant and comfortable.

This post isn't going to win any points for originality and I know we're going over old ground here but it does prove a point that speed is not everything; comfort and pleasure feature too and those ghastly Pendos are really not good. They were a mistake, in my mind, and I hope new InterCity rolling stock decisions aren't quite so wrong again.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yet some of us find InterCity 70 seating ghastly and would take the Pendolino any day. Horses for courses.


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[fowler9]

I'd like to add a bit more. The time saving of a Pendolino means naff all to me and probably to other people who have to make the journey (Say from Liverpool to London as in my case). If you are doing it for business are you going to drive, fly or get the coach if the journey takes half an hour longer by train? No. Are you more likely to get the train because you perceive it to be safer these days? No. Lets face it, we should be making sure trains don't crash in the first place, and train crashes are thankfully rare.

The fact that more and more people are using Virgin Trains is as likely to be because business is becoming more and more focused in the south east as opposed to people really liking Pendolinos. The only reason I get them more regularly is because one of my best mates had to move to Weybridge for work, not because I love Pendolinos. I guess I am not the only one.

 

[MrCub]

Yet some of us find InterCity 70 seating ghastly and would take the Pendolino any day. Horses for courses.

Yes, quite so. At least we have that choice; it's First World Problems, really. I think I'm still amazed at how unwell I felt on the train today. I was close to bailing at the wrong stop. Oh well.

 

[Mordac]

I'd like to add a bit more. The time saving of a Pendolino means naff all to me and probably to other people who have to make the journey (Say from Liverpool to London as in my case). If you are doing it for business are you going to drive, fly or get the coach if the journey takes half an hour longer by train? No. Are you more likely to get the train because you perceive it to be safer these days? No. Lets face it, we should be making sure trains don't crash in the first place, and train crashes are thankfully rare.

The fact that more and more people are using Virgin Trains is as likely to be because business is becoming more and more focused in the south east as opposed to people really liking Pendolinos. The only reason I get them more regularly is because one of my best mates had to move to Weybridge for work, not because I love Pendolinos. I guess I am not the only one.

Speak for yourself. As always, people forget that in all likelihood they are not the marginal cases.

 

[fowler9]

Speak for yourself. As always, people forget that in all likelihood they are not the marginal cases.

I think it would be interesting to know if passenger numbers are up because journies are quicker/because people prefer Pendolinos or just because people are getting cheap advance fares.

 

[edwin_m]

I think it would be interesting to know if passenger numbers are up because journies are quicker/because people prefer Pendolinos or just because people are getting cheap advance fares.

Research by BR in earlier decades resulted in the Passenger Demand Forecasting Handbook, which indicates (if I recall correctly) that a 10% cut in journey time results in a 9% increase in passengers, if everything else stays the same.

 

[fowler9]

Research by BR in earlier decades resulted in the Passenger Demand Forecasting Handbook, which indicates (if I recall correctly) that a 10% cut in journey time results in a 9% increase in passengers, if everything else stays the same.

Well that would make interesting reading but why have passenger numbers gone up on Northern Rail when rolling stock has not improved and journey times haven't come down? Are we all just finding things that match our arguments? Confirmation bias or some such thing?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well that would make interesting reading but why have passenger numbers gone up on Northern Rail when rolling stock has not improved and journey times haven't come down? Are we all just finding things that match our arguments? Confirmation bias or some such thing?

If all things were equal...thing is they aren't - traffic congestion is getting worse, fuel is a little pricey and there is a general view towards doing things for the benefit of the environment etc, as well as a seeming end of the car culture in many young people. This all put together means an increase in rail travel even if nothing else changed.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Yet some of us find InterCity 70 seating ghastly and would take the Pendolino any day. Horses for courses.


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Indeed, if I ever need to use Chiltern for any reason I tend to plan around getting 168s over their Silver sets. Never cared for them and I much prefer the seating and layout on Clubmans.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well that would make interesting reading but why have passenger numbers gone up on Northern Rail when rolling stock has not improved and journey times haven't come down? Are we all just finding things that match our arguments? Confirmation bias or some such thing?

Because other things are not equal.

The PDFH also maps other things to demand, such as frequency, price, competitor journey times, etc. There is no doubt, however, that speeding up London-Manchester from 2h35 to 2h05 has taken big chunks of the air market. Ditto at Liverpool - there used to be about 6 flights a day Liverpool to London; not any more.

In my experience, 99% of people really don't give a monkeys what type of train it is.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

By the time the Voyagers get to Durham on the way to Newcastle usually the smell is really bad and is quite overwhelming inside the train, which is why I refuse to board them


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Turn up 10 minutes earlier then and catch the TPE service.

 

[prod_pep]

I like Pendolinos and enjoy riding them for the most part. They're not perfect obviously and I understand why some don't like them; the criticism of their small windows is justified, for instance. That said, to me they're a major improvement on what they replaced. InterCity 70 seats weren't my cup of tea and generally the Mark IIIs had seen better days when the Pendolinos came on the scene.

Voyagers? No thanks. Too noisy, too cramped and too smelly. Their seat reservation system also seems to be unreliable as it has twice been broken on the handful of occasions I've used a Voyager. It could be just coincidence of course, but I've never seen a Pendolino reservation system broken despite many rides on them.

 

[fowler9]

I like Pendolinos and enjoy riding them for the most part. They're not perfect obviously and I understand why some don't like them; the criticism of their small windows is justified, for instance. That said, to me they're a major improvement on what they replaced. InterCity 70 seats weren't my cup of tea and generally the Mark IIIs had seen better days when the Pendolinos came on the scene.

Voyagers? No thanks. Too noisy, too cramped and too smelly. Their seat reservation system also seems to be unreliable as it has twice been broken on the handful of occasions I've used a Voyager. It could be just coincidence of course, but I've never seen a Pendolino reservation system broken despite many rides on them.

Well I've been on several (Quite a lot actually) where the reservation system has not been working. Not normally a problem for my journies on them though as at Lime Street I just trot on up to coach U (Of which there is frequently one) and get a table to myself.

 

[mbreckers]

Not many Virgin trains stop at Motherwell these days ha .

North Lanarkshire Council (where sunny Motherwell is) want more WCML services to call at Motherwell

http://www.motherwelltimes.co.uk/ne...-needed-in-station-to-boost-economy-1-4203332

 

[6Gman]

I like Pendolinos and enjoy riding them for the most part. They're not perfect obviously and I understand why some don't like them; the criticism of their small windows is justified, for instance. That said, to me they're a major improvement on what they replaced. InterCity 70 seats weren't my cup of tea and generally the Mark IIIs had seen better days when the Pendolinos came on the scene.

Voyagers? No thanks. Too noisy, too cramped and too smelly. Their seat reservation system also seems to be unreliable as it has twice been broken on the handful of occasions I've used a Voyager. It could be just coincidence of course, but I've never seen a Pendolino reservation system broken despite many rides on them.

I did 316 miles on Voyagers on Thursday. Really don't understand this thing about them being noisy. My wife and I were able to converse quite normally without raising our voices at all - in fact we were probably speaking more quietly than normal. One coach was slightly noisy at rest but quieter once we set off. As for being cramped the larger windows - to me - make them feel airier than a Pendolino.

 

[Huntergreed]

I did 316 miles on Voyagers on Thursday. Really don't understand this thing about them being noisy. My wife and I were able to converse quite normally without raising our voices at all - in fact we were probably speaking more quietly than normal. One coach was slightly noisy at rest but quieter once we set off. As for being cramped the larger windows - to me - make them feel airier than a Pendolino.

I, like you, prefer voyagers to pendos. The noise complaint is not really about the volume of the engines, but more about the irritating nature of the constant underfloor vibration. I would however much rather ride a Voyager to London than a Pendolino.

 

[dk1]

I did 316 miles on Voyagers on Thursday. Really don't understand this thing about them being noisy. My wife and I were able to converse quite normally without raising our voices at all - in fact we were probably speaking more quietly than normal. One coach was slightly noisy at rest but quieter once we set off. As for being cramped the larger windows - to me - make them feel airier than a Pendolino.

The noise thing is something haters of these DEMUs seem to bang on about time after time. Absolute rubbish as it isn't even noticeable especially at speed. Accelerating I find their 'growl' quite pleasing. Also as you say the large windows give them an airy feel. As my avatar proves I am more than happy to board one, especially Virgin sets as I prefer a shop & the high frequency services they have permitted across the network.

 

[Mordac]

The noise thing is something haters of these DEMUs seem to bang on about time after time. Absolute rubbish as it isn't even noticeable especially at speed. Accelerating I find their 'growl' quite pleasing. Also as you say the large windows give them an airy feel. As my avatar proves I am more than happy to board one, especially Virgin sets as I prefer a shop & the high frequency services they have permitted across the network.

I find the noise quite pleasing at 125mph or thereabouts, but very annoying at low speed or idle. I wonder why that is?

 

[bramling]

The noise thing is something haters of these DEMUs seem to bang on about time after time. Absolute rubbish as it isn't even noticeable especially at speed. Accelerating I find their 'growl' quite pleasing. Also as you say the large windows give them an airy feel. As my avatar proves I am more than happy to board one, especially Virgin sets as I prefer a shop & the high frequency services they have permitted across the network.

I don't mind the noise, although the vibration can be a little irritating on a long run. It's certainly preferable going on something like a Pendolino or HST where the vibration is not present.

For me the main issues with Voyagers are the cramped seating (the class 222s are a vast improvement in my opinion), smell, and the fact that for a given train length there's not a massive amount of seating compared to other designs. So, for me, a longer train with an interior design akin to the class 222 would be fine. The only snag is that it still wouldn't be efficient use of track capacity.

 

[dk1]

I find the noise quite pleasing at 125mph or thereabouts, but very annoying at low speed or idle. I wonder why that is?

Not sure, doesn't bother me.