Housing Crisis What Crisis ?

[WelshBluebird]

Clearly no-one has ever owned and lived in a house in Morley

So my personal view is that there is no housing crisis whatsoever. If there was there would be millions sleeping on the streets, in shop windows etc etc. The fact is that a "crisis" sells newspapers and everyone in this country loves a good moan about housing.

Look at the people who complain about a housing crisis - mostly white, middle-class homeowners. The same people who complain most vehemently about racism (where it doesn't exist).

Stop believing everything you read and ignore the rich, white, middle-class numpties who are pretending to care about the down-trodden to make up for the fact they've shat on so many in order to make their fortune.

And relax

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried!

The "white, middle-class homeowner" have no issues at all. Infact they are the group that are mostly currently benefiting from the housing issues (as as a demographic they are the ones who mostly own their own homes and in some cases are landlords themselves too).

The issues are for those who rent. And as a rough list:

• Expensive rents (where I live, a one bed flat costs half of what I earn in a month. I have a pretty good job earning more than my parents do combined. I'd hate to think how people in lower paid jobs in the area are dealing with it).
• Expensive property deposits.
• The combination of the two above (high rents mean people can't save enough for the high deposit).
• The lack of security while renting. You have pretty much zero ability to "put down roots" because you may be kicked out in a few months time for no reason at all.
• The insane fees charged by many agents (some charge high fees for simple admin tasks that take 5 minutes like changing dates on a contact).
• The combination of the above two which means that it can get incredibly expensive pretty damn quickly. If you have to move all of the time and each time you move it costs you a lot of money, that eats into what you can save for a deposit etc.
• Poor landlords (a mixture of unscrupulous ones who will rinse you for everything when it comes to things like getting deposits back etc, and of inexperienced ones who have no idea what they should be doing).
• The fact that rents / house prices have grown higher than wages, so as the news story linked to on the previous page suggests, it is now a lot harder to be in a stable and safe position in terms of paying rent if you were to lose your job / not get paid.

The key to being young and owning a property is living at home while you save the deposit (just like people used to decades ago)

The problem with that is that in the areas that many people considering "home" (as in living with their parents, which may not even be possible due to any number of reasons) is that they may be in areas where industrial decline and neglect by successive governments have led to a situation where professional jobs are incredibly difficult to get. Add to that the fact that for some careers, jobs are centered in specific parts of the country and you end up with a situation where someone can't stay at home because they need to move for a job!

 

[DarloRich]

[*]The insane fees charged by many agents (some charge high fees for simple admin tasks that take 5 minutes like changing dates on a contact).[/LIST]

They boil my urine and are completely unnecessary. Best thing to do is to get your landlords details and cut out the agent. I have always done that when renting.

There is absolutely no need to sign a new Assured Shorthold tenancy at the end of your 6/12 month period. You simply go onto a rolling continuation tenancy with one month termination on both sides. I have never signed more than AST for any house I have lived in.

Get the landlord details off HMLR and write to him. I guarantee you can sell direct contact as a cost and time saving exercise for all, particularly if the landlord is a small time operator. The agents are rinsing him just as much as you!

 

[WelshBluebird]

They boil my urine and are completely unnecessary. Best thing to do is to get your landlords details and cut out the agent. I have always done that when renting.

There is absolutely no need to sign a new Assured Shorthold tenancy at the end of your 6/12 month period. You simply go onto a rolling continuation tenancy with one month termination on both sides. I have never signed more than AST for any house I have lived in.

Get the landlord details off HMLR and write to him. I guarantee you can sell direct contact as a cost and time saving exercise for all, particularly if the landlord is a small time operator. The agents are rinsing him just as much as you!

I'm quite lucky in that I have done exactly that (rolling tenancy rather than a new contact), my landlord is actually pretty decent and in comparison to similar rents nearby it isn't that expensive. But the horror stories from some friends of mine are just awful (they seem to be mainly in London too!).

 

[DarloRich]

I'm quite lucky in that I have done exactly that (rolling tenancy rather than a new contact), my landlord is actually pretty decent and in comparison to similar rents nearby it isn't that expensive. But the horror stories from some friends of mine are just awful (they seem to be mainly in London too!).

they need to wise up and protect themselves - agents feast on naivety and fake mateism

 

[Iskra]

Clearly no-one has ever owned and lived in a house in Morley

So my personal view is that there is no housing crisis whatsoever. If there was there would be millions sleeping on the streets, in shop windows etc etc. The fact is that a "crisis" sells newspapers and everyone in this country loves a good moan about housing.

Look at the people who complain about a housing crisis - mostly white, middle-class homeowners. The same people who complain most vehemently about racism (where it doesn't exist).

Stop believing everything you read and ignore the rich, white, middle-class numpties who are pretending to care about the down-trodden to make up for the fact they've shat on so many in order to make their fortune.

And relax

I live a couple of miles from Morley in Birstall, and I actually don't understand why housing is so cheap in Morley. It's not that bad a place.

 

[Busaholic]

It's actually quite simple to establish whether there is a housing crisis or not. Take the national figures for housing stock, divide by the latest available figures for population and allow for the official figures for the average size of household (decreasing all the time) and you will see there is an imbalance growing year by year, not even taking into account 'illegal immigrants' or others not in the census figures. The last government to get on top of building sufficient houses/flats was Harold Macmillan's in the early 1960s, although the high-rise estates which resulted have of course proved problematic in many cases. The Labour government of October 1974 seemed to believe their Rent Act and Housing Act passed shortly afterwards were going to help solve the remaining housing problems, and in a few cases they did, but the situation since then has become dire, with 'market forces' being allowed to overwhelm. Which other country would allow foreigners with no right of abode, or companies controlled by these people, to buy up anything they liked, often on much more favourable terms than available to U.K.-based residents? And then, rubbing extra salt into the wound, start building an Underground line extension to serve these non-doms and help them achieve even higher rents in the properties they'll never occupy themselves. Step forward, Northern Line extension to Battersea, fast-forwarded by a former Mayor of London.

 

[SteveP29]

He didn't require it, just a nice bonus. He needed a £3800 deposit which he saved in a year from a modest income.

Saved £3800 in a year on £10 an hour and only working 32 hours, £16640 a year?
I presume he didn't have rent to pay, council tax, a car to run etc?
On just over £14,500 a year myself, I never have anything left at the end of each month

 

[Butts]

Saved £3800 in a year on £10 an hour and only working 32 hours, £16640 a year?
I presume he didn't have rent to pay, council tax, a car to run etc?
On just over £14,500 a year myself, I never have anything left at the end of each month

If you had read it properly he also gets overtime which his Mortgage took into account. Further along it was mentioned he lived at home with his mother. Yes he has got a car - a vintage Mini. I think his Mum only took a token payment in lieu of rent off him.

 

[miami]

If you had read it properly he also gets overtime which his Mortgage took into account. Further along it was mentioned he lived at home with his mother. Yes he has got a car - a vintage Mini. I think his Mum only took a token payment in lieu of rent off him.

And thats thekey. No rent, no council tax, probably no electricity. Yet with all that he could only save £300 a month.

Now imagine he was trying to make it on his own without a £7k/year subsidy from mum.

 

[Butts]

And thats thekey. No rent, no council tax, probably no electricity. Yet with all that he could only save £300 a month.

Now imagine he was trying to make it on his own without a £7k/year subsidy from mum.

Blimey talk about inverted snobbery. How many parents would not let their kids live at home if they were saving for a Mortgage. Strangely enough he never had a bean until he split up with his girlfriend and it all sprang from there. Like any young lad he is out on the pop most weekends but managed to salt away the money.

 

[Domh245]

How many parents would not let their kids live at home if they were saving for a Mortgage

Not an option for everyone though. In a lot of cases, the parent's house might be too far away for commuting or for job opportunities. In some cases, the parents may not even be around...

 

[Butts]

Not an option for everyone though. In a lot of cases, the parent's house might be too far away for commuting or for job opportunities. In some cases, the parents may not even be around...

Yes I appreciate that.

Perhaps if I take The Postman as the benchmark - after all they are prevalent all over the UK.

Which other areas of the UK apart from The West Midlands and North East would it be possible on a modest salary to purchase a flat in a half decent area for £68,000 ?

 

[miami]

Not an option for everyone though. In a lot of cases, the parent's house might be too far away for commuting or for job opportunities. In some cases, the parents may not even be around...

Indeed, perhaps they've downsized as mentioned above, or retired to sunny spain. Perhaps they're dead, perhaps simply estranged.

Butts' son benefited from a £7k subsidy, and managed to save £3500. Without that assistance from mum (and from the taxpayer) he'd be £3500 in debt at the end of year one, and getting worse and worse.

Now realistically you could pick up an all-bills-included flat share in Dudley for about £4k a year (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-40164516.html), which means that without the assistance he'd just about be able to survive - that £3500 deposit would have paid for his living costs for the year, and I'm assuming that Mum didn't pay for any food costs.

So basically "What Crisis" is true when you have parents who are willing and able to subsidise your deposit.

 

[Butts]

Indeed, perhaps they've downsized as mentioned above, or retired to sunny spain. Perhaps they're dead, perhaps simply estranged.

Butts' son benefited from a £7k subsidy, and managed to save £3500. Without that assistance from mum (and from the taxpayer) he'd be £3500 in debt at the end of year one, and getting worse and worse.

Now realistically you could pick up an all-bills-included flat share in Dudley for about £4k a year (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-40164516.html), which means that without the assistance he'd just about be able to survive - that £3500 deposit would have paid for his living costs for the year, and I'm assuming that Mum didn't pay for any food costs.

So basically "What Crisis" is true when you have parents who are willing and able to subsidise your deposit.

I think you are being a little OTT with the subsidy comments. Next you will be saying any child living at home should repay their parents the cost of bringing them up.

He has not been handed money on a plate but saved up out of earned income.

I was just tying to point out that someone on a modest salary was able to purchase a property even today.

 

[miami]

I think you are being a little OTT with the subsidy comments. Next you will be saying any child living at home should repay their parents the cost of bringing them up.

He has not been handed money on a plate but saved up out of earned income.

I was just tying to point out that someone on a modest salary was able to purchase a property even today.

Only if they don't have to pay rent, gas, electricity, council tax, tv license, and all those other costs that most people pay while earning. And that's the point. There's a massive problem with people buying houses at the moment because a shocking amount of their money goes in rent, which goes into the pockets of landlords, who buy more houses with the profits.

If you're (un)lucky enough to be able to live with your parents while earning, then yes, you can save money. The 20-somethings I know don't have that luxury. So good for your son for finding a way, and good for those that just take cash from parents, you've got to take help when you can get it, and that means being handed money on a plate -- money in the form of a parental subsidy and a taxpayer subsidy -- just don't think that because your family is in a position to subsidise the next generation that every family is.

 

[radamfi]

Rents have gone up less than house prices over the last 20 years. For example, in 1996 I rented a 1 bed flat in Surbiton for £650 a month. That flat cost about £60,000. Now such a flat would be about £300,000 with rent being about £1,000 a month. So rent has gone up by just over 50%, which is probably less than the increase in salaries. But the property price has gone up 400%.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Rents have gone up less than house prices over the last 20 years. For example, in 1996 I rented a 1 bed flat in Surbiton for £650 a month. That flat cost about £60,000. Now such a flat would be about £300,000 with rent being about £1,000 a month. So rent has gone up by just over 50%, which is probably less than the increase in salaries. But the property price has gone up 400%.

Try £1,250 - £1,000 if you're *really* lucky and get something that's absolutely terrible.

£650 in 1996 is £1,100 today, according to the BoE.

 

[43021HST]

Clearly no-one has ever owned and lived in a house in Morley

So my personal view is that there is no housing crisis whatsoever. If there was there would be millions sleeping on the streets, in shop windows etc etc. The fact is that a "crisis" sells newspapers and everyone in this country loves a good moan about housing.

And relax

No that would be a housing disaster, which is what could happen if this current situation of a virtually unregulated rented sector is allowed to continue.

I think there's some confusion going on over the actual meaning of the term 'housing crisis'. The term describes not just the high cost of mortgages for London and the Southeast, but also the comparatively high cost of renting all over the country. It also describes the lack of council housing being built, which helps to keep house prices in the private sector 'competitive' (urgh I hate that term) rather than extortionate.

In the past, renting has mostly been a stop gap for people who are saving up for a mortgage, but with rents currently being so high, the crisis here is that people can't save for a mortgage.

The term also describes the trade off you have to do the further north you go between, job opportunities and being able to afford accommodation.

I'm in my early 20s and have had to move from Connahs Quay in North Wales to Aldershot, due to the lack of jobs available in North Wales. I have since managed to find a job which pays about £1300 a month. Although the cheapest flats in the area which aren't shared accommodation are £650 a month, meaning I wouldn't have enough left over to save for a mortgage. (I worked out all my living costs and on my current wage I would have £100 spare a month).

Had I been earning £1300 a month in Connahs quay, I know I probably would have had a greater chance of being able to save for a mortgate. But the issue is finding a job up there that pays that much, that also fits my skills. The highest paid work round there was mostly trades, meanwhile my specialism is IT.

 

[BestWestern]

On the subject of private landlords' pockets, what I find particularly irksome is the situation for those who receive housing benefit for renting privately. In many cases these people are also on other income-related benefits. Housing benefit rarely pays enough to actually cover the cost of the required property, and so the tenant has to top up the rent from whatever other money they have, including their benefits. So the taxpayer ends up subidising landlords' portfolios twice over.

We already have a bracket roughly classified as 'Social Housing'. Perhaps we need to band privately rented properties more rigourously, with a bracket called 'Standard Housing', for which the local authority in any area can specify maximum private rents. Above that, we'd then have 'Premium Housing', whereby a landlord charges whatever they like, but pays a significant additional tax. They can afford it on the money top-end properties rent for. Just a thought.

 

[Tom B]

The unfortunate fact is that the political establishment has no reason to wish to change the status quo. After all, many of our MPs are landlords and, indeed, many of the people who support them, select them, sit on local council committees wiht them etc are landlords or owner-occupiers. Add this to the large numbers of loyally-voting pensioners, for whom a drop (or lower rate of increase) in house prices would affect their finances - such persons are more 'valuable' to a politician (and to the media) than a 25 year old single worker.

 

[DarloRich]

On the subject of private landlords' pockets, what I find particularly irksome is the situation for those who receive housing benefit for renting privately. In many cases these people are also on other income-related benefits. Housing benefit rarely pays enough to actually cover the cost of the required property, and so the tenant has to top up the rent from whatever other money they have, including their benefits. So the taxpayer ends up subidising landlords' portfolios twice over.

We already have a bracket roughly classified as 'Social Housing'. Perhaps we need to band privately rented properties more rigourously, with a bracket called 'Standard Housing', for which the local authority in any area can specify maximum private rents. Above that, we'd then have 'Premium Housing', whereby a landlord charges whatever they like, but pays a significant additional tax. They can afford it on the money top-end properties rent for. Just a thought.

Although when I lost my job and ran out of money housing benefit was the only thing that prevented homelessness from being added to the list of issues!

 

[radamfi]

Is there a country, or area, where all the following can be met at the same time?

1. Affordable property
2. High wages
3. Low unemployment
4. High quality of life

 

[Iskra]

Is there a country, or area, where all the following can be met at the same time?

1. Affordable property
2. High wages
3. Low unemployment
4. High quality of life

Yes. The area surrounding Sellafield, Cumbria, if you're employed in the Nuclear Industry.

 

[ExRes]

Is there a country, or area, where all the following can be met at the same time?

1. Affordable property
2. High wages
3. Low unemployment
4. High quality of life

I'm not sure about (3) but I see no reason why (1), (2) & (4) can't be found together, surely it depends on the type of employment you are capable of holding down while 'high quality of life' is highly subjective