Could we buy more 66 and 70's?

[CosherB]

Plus, why would you want to buy more 66's?? Let's not forget that it was the frankly dirt cheap and crap 66's that spelt the death knell for many of the old ex-BR classes. They sound awful, they look awful, and listening to drivers that sign 'em, they're not all that and a bag of chips to work, either. Apparently the 60 is by far the superior locomotive for comfort and to drive. Not only that, but it's reckoned they'll pull loads a 'Ying' won't even look at. They also look bloody good and sound rather nice on full chat - not up there with the likes of the 56 and the 37 mind, but still pretty good.

The 70 sounds good on full chat, but looks like it was designed in a hurry, in the dark, by someone who had a hangover.

Meanwhile, in the real world ..... :roll:

 

[YorkshireBear]

They don't think that, you may consider they do, but they don't

Okay apologies for the incorrect use of the word everyone.

Many people i have met in my work life, personal life and out and about.

 

[CosherB]

Taking the new Class 70s for Colas aside, just who will be wanting to buy new diesel traction in the short to medium term anyway, in light of the current economic outlook?

DBC have dozens of 60s parked up, plus about a dozen 66s and half the 67 fleet out of use.

Freightliner have a couple of dozen 66s on limited use.

GBRf has almost got all of it's 66s in use, although (I think) two of the last batch have yet to see active service.

DRS is making sure that all of their 68s are in use, with 6 of their 9 57/0s long term stored. They'll then be looking for work for 10 88s.

It looks a bit bleak to me and will need major new UK project work to buck this trend.

 

[richieb1971]

Apart from coal what has UK railfreight actually lost?

The Midland Mainline rosters seem exactly the same as 2 years ago. Aggregates, cement and to be not 1, but 2 oil tanker trains scheduled.

Boxes are flying everywhere left right and centre so no loss there.

Cars are still hitting Southampton daily.

I'm not quite sure that 30 coal trains a day through Barnetby can be replaced by 4 biomass trains everyday? Whats replacing all that fuel?

Toton is more a scrapyard than a depot now. The mighty Toton of the 80's is a parking lot for locos that will be scrapped in 20 years time. If you took all those 60's out of there it would be field with rails going through it.

 

[broadgage]

1. We aren't yet exempt
2. I suspect that emission regulations are somewhere near the bottom of the pile of things that need sorting out once (if) art. 50 is triggered
3. I'm not sure that there is a desire to relax emissions regulations. What government would want to say "We are allowing dirtier engines again"?
4. By the time we have freed ourself (if at all) from them, the 66 and 70 will be a massively outdated design that won't be offered any more

This was discussed at length recently along with other impacts of Brexit on the railway

In general I agree, the only plausible exception IMHO would be if a Hybrid or dual powered 25KV and diesel locomotive was desired, perhaps based on the proven 66s.
If most of the mileage was to be on electric power, then it could be reasonably argued that emissions on diesel would be of little consequence.
Such a locomotive would not really be a 66 though even if the diesel parts were so derived.
Another possibility would be a modified 66 permanently coupled to a modern purpose built AC electric locomotive. The pair would be permanently coupled and modified so as to be driven as one, in effect it would be an articulated loco, not a coupled pair.
Under diesel or electric power the traction motors in BOTH units would be powered thereby making full use of the weight of EACH unit for adhesion and reducing the chance of slipping.
The idea has considerable merit IMHO, but firstly it certainly wont happen just yet, and secondly it wont be a 66 when built, even if one end started out as a class 66.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Apart from coal what has UK railfreight actually lost?

However the coal traffic that has been lost represented a very large percentage of overall freight traffic. Aggregates and cement appear to be on the increase but I don't see much evidence in the growth of Intermodal or indeed anything else that could possible take up the slack.
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Perhaps Colas will aggressively target customers of other FOCS and try and win thier freight.

That's a fair point, assuming that it's cost base is lower than the other FOC's.

 

[birchesgreen]

Most EU regulations will still apply to us whether we are in the EU or not, as many are international agreements at a pan-national level, basic common sense or its simply not worth making versions of your stuff that doesn't adhere to the regs for a tiny market. Plus of course if you sell to the EU you'll have to adhere to the regs anyway. Its a highly interconnected world though a lot of people don't really grasp that.

 

[CosherB]

Its a highly interconnected world though a lot of people don't really grasp that.

About 17 million people I'd say .....

 

[richieb1971]

However the coal traffic that has been lost represented a very large percentage of overall freight traffic. Aggregates and cement appear to be on the increase but I don't see much evidence in the growth of Intermodal or indeed anything else that could possible take up the slack.
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So again, what is fueling our power supply? And how is it being transported?

 

[CosherB]

So again, what is fueling our power supply? And how is it being transported?

10 second Google search.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[Topgun333]

You can see what is being used for electricity generation live at www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

As I write coal is supplying less than 3%, gas 43%, nuclear 26% and wind 13%. The rest is other renewables like biomass or imported electricity.

 

[broadgage]

So again, what is fueling our power supply? And how is it being transported?

A little is biomass transported by rail
A lot is natural gas transported by pipeline
A fair bit is wind, no "fuel" to transport.
Some is imported electricity, no physical fuel to transport.

And some of the coal burning capacity has been replaced by optimism !

 

[randyrippley]

Let's not forget that it was the frankly dirt cheap and crap 66's that spelt the death knell for many of the old ex-BR classes.

Thats because the majority of the ex-BR classes were EXPENSIVE and unreliable . Oh, and OLD expensive and unreliable as well, with non-availability of spares.
Expensive to build when compared with American alternatives, expensive to service, and expensive due to the poor reliability rates.
Class 66 is cheap, simple, reliable and easily repairable with a bullet-proof engine and transmission. Purchasing and retention decisions are based on cost - not on spotters dreams.
Whats needed is a new-generation 66, with better noise insulation and better crash protection, and a more fuel efficient engine.............hang on where have I seen that before. Lets not forget that the best way to reduce a diesel's carbon footprint is to make it burn fuel more efficiently

 

[Harbornite]

It looks a bit bleak to me and will need major new UK project work to buck this trend.

HS2 could fit the bill.
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Plus, why would you want to buy more 66's??

If there was more traffic, then it would make sense to buy more due to economies of scale and ease of maintenance.

Let's not forget that it was the frankly dirt cheap and crap 66's that spelt the death knell for many of the old ex-BR classes.

Well that was the intention. Some of those older diesels were unreliable and it makes sense to reduce the number of classes you have to the minimum.

They sound awful, they look awful,

This is rather irrelevant and is your opinion, not fact.

and listening to drivers that sign 'em, they're not all that and a bag of chips to work, either. Apparently the 60 is by far the superior locomotive for comfort and to drive. Not only that, but it's reckoned they'll pull loads a 'Ying' won't even look at.

Fair point, but 66s have a higher top speed.

The 70 sounds good on full chat, but looks like it was designed in a hurry, in the dark, by someone who had a hangover.

They aren't that bad.

 

[Domh245]

HS2 could fit the bill

HS2 might hoover up some of the 66s, but I don't think it's big enough to merit more locos being ordered.

 

[Harbornite]

HS2 might hoover up some of the 66s, but I don't think it's big enough to merit more locos being ordered.

Probably not in hindsight, we won't be seeing any more new build 66s and I'd bet on that.

There are projected increases in biomass traffic for Drax and Lynemouth which will help GBRf/ whoever has the contracts.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

HS2 might hoover up some of the 66s, but I don't think it's big enough to merit more locos being ordered.

Probably not in hindsight, we won't be seeing any more new build 66s and I'd bet on that. I should have made it clearer that I meant that HS2 could reduce the number of stored locos.

There are projected increases in biomass traffic for Drax and Lynemouth which will help GBRf/ whoever has the contracts.