Could we buy more 66 and 70's?

[Prestige15]

Since the brexit would we be able to buy more class 66 and class 70 as were now exempt from European legislation on emission?

 

[Domh245]

1. We aren't yet exempt
2. I suspect that emission regulations are somewhere near the bottom of the pile of things that need sorting out once (if) art. 50 is triggered
3. I'm not sure that there is a desire to relax emissions regulations. What government would want to say "We are allowing dirtier engines again"?
4. By the time we have freed ourself (if at all) from them, the 66 and 70 will be a massively outdated design that won't be offered any more

This was discussed at length recently along with other impacts of Brexit on the railway

 

[Prestige15]

Right i see. Is there a link of most recent one, I can't seemed to find one.

 

[Domh245]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=131795

 

[Prestige15]

Thanks

 

[trainmania100]

What would the sub class be if were to get more?
Most are taken, 0/1/2 are mostly DB Cargo , 3 /4 are mostly DRS , 5/6/9 mostly Freightliner, 7 gbrf and 8 Colas... Maybe a class 69 or create a 59 subclass

 

[CosherB]

What would the sub class be if were to get more?
Most are taken, 0/1/2 are mostly DB Cargo , 3 /4 are mostly DRS , 5/6/9 mostly Freightliner, 7 gbrf and 8 Colas... Maybe a class 69 or create a 59 subclass

Didn't you read what Domh245 succinctly wrote in post #2? :roll:

 

[Chris125]

As concerns over air quality only seem to be growing this simply isn't going to happen.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Why would any FOC be considering buying brand new diesels when so much freight traffic has been lost in the last couple of years?

 

[ExRes]

I wonder what plans Colas have for the 7 Class 70s they have under construction at the moment for 2016/17 delivery

 

[CosherB]

I wonder what plans Colas have for the 7 Class 70s they have under construction at the moment for 2016/17 delivery

To replace 7 Class 56s?

 

[Harbornite]

66s are old hat, they are basically old tech although the more recent models are obviously more Eco friendly (and driver friendly?)

However, IF we do ditch the EU emissions stage regs (we probably won't) then in theory more could be purchased. However this won't happen because one of the advantages of railfreight is its eco-friendlyness and the industry won't want to go backwards and become the "dirty man of Europe" with regards to emissions. In other words, no more class 66s, unless some are repatriated.

As for powehauls, I don't think they meet Stage IIIb for emissions, but there's more chance of an additional batch of them being ordered if GE felt it worthwhile to develop a more efficient engine. Of course this is all what ifs, itnhas already been mentioned that demand for new freight locos is sadly lacking.

 

[ExRes]

To replace 7 Class 56s?

I would assume so, they have plenty of work for their 37s and it seems unlikely to me that they would be planning on replacing the 60s so soon after spending money on them, 70s for 56s would certainly seem the most logical idea although it's worth remembering they ordered the 70s in 2015 and may have been expecting far more work than is currently available

 

[Harbornite]

To replace 7 Class 56s?

Surely the 47s are a better target for withdrawal, what with them being a smaller fleet?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What would the sub class be if were to get more?
Most are taken, 0/1/2 are mostly DB Cargo , 3 /4 are mostly DRS , 5/6/9 mostly Freightliner, 7 gbrf and 8 Colas... Maybe a class 69 or create a 59 subclass

Why create a 59 subclass? This is silly because 59s are rather different to 66s and all 66 variants have more in common with each other than with any 59.

 

[ExRes]

Surely the 47s are a better target for withdrawal, what with them being a smaller fleet?

Other than RHTT work what exactly does their 47 fleet actually do?, 70s for 47s seems rather OTT

 

[Harbornite]

Other than RHTT work what exactly does their 47 fleet actually do?, 70s for 47s seems rather OTT

They turn up on the occasional boston- washwood heath steel train, not much else. They aren't used for railtours or fuel trains.

 

[ExRes]

They turn up on the occasional boston- washwood heath steel train, not much else. They aren't used for railtours or fuel trains.

Poor things were pretty knackered when I last drove them, thanks to a couple of years of EWS 'care and maintenance', 16 years more use seems rather unfair, they should be allowed to retire gracefully with one joining me as a garden shed

 

[Harbornite]

Poor things were pretty knackered when I last drove them, thanks to a couple of years of EWS 'care and maintenance', 16 years more use seems rather unfair, they should be allowed to retire gracefully with one joining me as a garden shed

From what I've heard, the Virgin IRLA 47s were also bags of crap and EWS ones were sometimes used to rescue them, but they weren't much better as you've said! DRS did the right thing in ditching their whole 47 fleet, save for one in storage.

 

[Via Bank]

Since the brexit would we be able to buy more class 66 and class 70 as were now exempt from European legislation on emission?

1. We won't be exempt until we actually leave, which is at least two and a bit years off and quite probably a good deal longer (and even then we won't be able to repeal it if we remain an EEA member)
2. Even once we can repeal the European legislation on emissions, why would we? We have a massive air quality problem in the UK, and removing red tape that prohibits engines that belch out massive amounts of NOx and particulate matter would be rather counterproductive - especially because if we want a diesel or bi-mode loco there are plenty of other options on the market.

 

[WatcherZero]

It probably wont be changed anyway for three reasons.

1. We are signed up to other climate change reduction treaties like Kyoto which require a reduction in emmissions.
2. If we signed up to a trade agreement with the EU the same legislation would apply for goods and services even if we wernt a member, we just lose our vote in setting those regulations.
3. The rest of the world will still be applying the EU and US emission standards so manufacturers wont be making non-compliant engines unless you want something from some third world country.

 

[DarloRich]

Why would any FOC be considering buying brand new diesels when so much freight traffic has been lost in the last couple of years?

railway infrastructure contracts

 

[SpacePhoenix]

As more miles of track slowly get electrified you're more likely to see bi-mode freight locos ordered.

 

[YorkshireBear]

We are never going to just abandon all these nasty EU regulations.... Why does everyone (not on the forum but in life in general) seem to think every single bit of EU legislation is just going to be abandoned and we can go back to the 40s....

 

[Mikey C]

It probably wont be changed anyway for three reasons.

1. We are signed up to other climate change reduction treaties like Kyoto which require a reduction in emmissions.
2. If we signed up to a trade agreement with the EU the same legislation would apply for goods and services even if we wernt a member, we just lose our vote in setting those regulations.
3. The rest of the world will still be applying the EU and US emission standards so manufacturers wont be making non-compliant engines unless you want something from some third world country.

This is more an air quality issue than Climate Change, it's highly likely the UK will continue with the EU emissions rules, indeed I imagine the UK has been heavily involved in setting them!

 

[RichmondCommu]

railway infrastructure contracts

Fair enough but surely that would depend on who won the contracts. I get the impression that both DB and Freightliner have loco's laid up at the moment.

 

[ExRes]

We are never going to just abandon all these nasty EU regulations.... Why does everyone (not on the forum but in life in general) seem to think every single bit of EU legislation is just going to be abandoned and we can go back to the 40s....

They don't think that, you may consider they do, but they don't

 

[DarloRich]

Fair enough but surely that would depend on who won the contracts. I get the impression that both DB and Freightliner have loco's laid up at the moment.

indeed - but it is hard to deliver a contract without the traction to shift the stuff about while simply having locos parked up is no indicator of tender success

Perhaps Colas will aggressively target customers of other FOCS and try and win thier freight.

 

[trainmania100]

Didn't you read what Domh245 succinctly wrote in post #2? :roll:

Nope :P

 

[plastictaffy]

Plus, why would you want to buy more 66's?? Let's not forget that it was the frankly dirt cheap and crap 66's that spelt the death knell for many of the old ex-BR classes. They sound awful, they look awful, and listening to drivers that sign 'em, they're not all that and a bag of chips to work, either. Apparently the 60 is by far the superior locomotive for comfort and to drive. Not only that, but it's reckoned they'll pull loads a 'Ying' won't even look at. They also look bloody good and sound rather nice on full chat - not up there with the likes of the 56 and the 37 mind, but still pretty good.

The 70 sounds good on full chat, but looks like it was designed in a hurry, in the dark, by someone who had a hangover.

 

[66Yorks]

You can never have enough Class 66's.