Jeremy Corbyn & Tom Watson elected leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A recent pool ( linked somewhere in here) showed support for Corbyn miles ahead in the north, close lead in London and miles behind everywhere else.

What pool is that.....Liverpool, Blackpool, Hartlepool, Ullapool, Welshpool or Pontypool ?...

 

[Domh245]

Where else is there?

Midlands/Wales, rest of South, and Scotland.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2638796&postcount=1134

As an aside, the question asked is "what party would you vote for" rather than "May or Corbyn" so it is quite likely that some of the support from the North comes from people who will vote labour because that's what they've always done. The poll doesn't feature UKIP, who may well be a force to be reckoned with in the north if Labour can't get their act together.

 

[Busaholic]

I'm not sure Callaghan actually said that. Wasn't it a newspaper headline? Sounds like the Sun.

I'm afraid he did say that, as I was watching a daytime ITV news broadcast when he was interviewed at Heathrow having just come back from somewhere hot with quite a tan - as we were enduring dustmen's and gravediggers strikes at the time (winter as well) it didn't go down well and I remember thinking to myself 'that's the Election gone for a Burton now'. Maybe the footage got wiped, because there were denials later from Labour, but I know what I heard!
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Uttered by said Callaghan - aka "Chicken Jim" a famous nom de plume of the era.

Note for younger members the SNP effectively brought down the Labour Government and ushered in 18 years of Tory Rule

No it didn't - the SDP (rather than SNP) didn't exist when Labour lost the 1979 election. It was born out of Michael Foot's election as Labour leader and, perhaps more importantly, Tony Benn's losing the deputy leadership by a fraction of a percentage to Denis Healey and what was seen as a general movement to the left, with nuclear deterrence and Europe being to the fore as the reasons for the split, and NOT the Falklands conflict as is sometimes suggested now.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm afraid he did say that, as I was watching a daytime ITV news broadcast when he was interviewed at Heathrow having just come back from somewhere hot with quite a tan - as we were enduring dustmen's and gravediggers strikes at the time (winter as well) it didn't go down well and I remember thinking to myself 'that's the Election gone for a Burton now'. Maybe the footage got wiped, because there were denials later from Labour, but I know what I heard!

Yes, he had just flown back to Britain from a four-nation summit in Guadeloupe, when many MP's felt that he should have remained in Britain at a time when the country had suffered "gravedigger" strikes and refuse collections were also subject to industrial action.

He made a political faux pas by patronisingly informing the reporters....
"I promise if you look at it from the outside, I don't think other people in the world would share the view there is a mounting crisis"

 

[Butts]

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No it didn't - the SDP (rather than SNP) didn't exist when Labour lost the 1979 election. It was born out of Michael Foot's election as Labour leader and, perhaps more importantly, Tony Benn's losing the deputy leadership by a fraction of a percentage to Denis Healey and what was seen as a general movement to the left, with nuclear deterrence and Europe being to the fore as the reasons for the split, and NOT the Falklands conflict as is sometimes suggested now.

Who said anything about the SDP - I'm talking about the confidence vote in Callaghan's Government which led to the May 1979 Election.

 

[Busaholic]

Who said anything about the SDP - I'm talking about the confidence vote in Callaghan's Government which led to the May 1979 Election.

Well, you're certainly confusing me. The General Election had to take place in 1979, as Callaghan had chosen to ignore calls from others in his party to 'go' in autumn 1978 cf Gordon Brown in autumn 2009. A no-confidence vote would merely have hastened the inevitable by a few weeks. The SNP'S role in ushering in 18 years of Tory rule might feature in their party's propaganda but imo was tangential at best.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Well, you're certainly confusing me. The General Election had to take place in 1979, as Callaghan had chosen to ignore calls from others in his party to 'go' in autumn 1978 cf Gordon Brown in autumn 2009. A no-confidence vote would merely have hastened the inevitable by a few weeks. The SNP'S role in ushering in 18 years of Tory rule might feature in their party's propaganda but imo was tangential at best.

The previous election was on 10 October 1974. The no-confidence vote was on 28 March 1979 - so at that time there was just over 6 months before an election had to be called. The SNP chose to vote against the Government in the no-confidence vote; if they had chosen to abstain or vote with the Government, then Jim Callaghan's Government would have won the vote and therefore would have had the 6 months grace before needing to call an election. There is speculation that, had that happened, Labour might have recovered enough popularity over the summer to prevent Margaret Thatcher winning the election. It's on that basis that some people believe the SNP's actions gave rise to the 18 years of Conservative rule, which seems to be the point Butts is making. (Obviously, the connection is speculative, as no one knows what would've happened if the vote had gone the other way. And besides, there was no certainty in 1979 that the Conservatives would rule for 18 years).

(It's also slightly ironic that the SNP were almost wiped out in the May 1979 election that they had helped to bring about: They lost 9 of their 11 MPs!)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well, since he was elected Leader of the Labour Party, I have tried my hardest to picture Jeremy Corbyn as a serious leader on the world stage, but the image that I keep seeing only reminds me of a moderate Trades Union leader who is at his happiest addressing bodies of like-minded individuals.

 

[northwichcat]

Well, since he was elected Leader of the Labour Party, I have tried my hardest to picture Jeremy Corbyn as a serious leader on the world stage, but the image that I keep seeing only reminds me of a moderate Trades Union leader who is at his happiest addressing bodies of like-minded individuals.

Well some leaders on the world stage would never become PM in Britain, even if they were British and leader of a political party in Britain. Can you imagine someone like Justin Trudeau becoming leader of the Lib Dems and the Lib Dems winning the next election, pushing the Conservatives in to second place and Labour in to third? Well that's close to what happened in Canada.

 

[Busaholic]

The previous election was on 10 October 1974. The no-confidence vote was on 28 March 1979 - so at that time there was just over 6 months before an election had to be called. The SNP chose to vote against the Government in the no-confidence vote; if they had chosen to abstain or vote with the Government, then Jim Callaghan's Government would have won the vote and therefore would have had the 6 months grace before needing to call an election. There is speculation that, had that happened, Labour might have recovered enough popularity over the summer to prevent Margaret Thatcher winning the election. It's on that basis that some people believe the SNP's actions gave rise to the 18 years of Conservative rule, which seems to be the point Butts is making. (Obviously, the connection is speculative, as no one knows what would've happened if the vote had gone the other way. And besides, there was no certainty in 1979 that the Conservatives would rule for 18 years).

(It's also slightly ironic that the SNP were almost wiped out in the May 1979 election that they had helped to bring about: They lost 9 of their 11 MPs!)

Thank you - I admit having got the wrong end of the stick initially about which set of elections Butts was referring to. We shall never know whether Jim Callaghan could have won an October 1979 election, but history would not have been on his side. In the days when PMs could choose election dates before the full five-year term was up, those who elected to leave it til the last minute were usually seen as hanging on to power by a straw, and consequently discarded by the electorate.

 

[J-2739]

Did anyone else see his speech on Sky News? Around 11 pm:
http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-no-mp-would-leave-labour-family-10522200

Jeremy Corbyn said no Labour MP would dream of leaving the "family" that put them in Parliament, in an attack on rebels.


Dismissing the idea of a party split in a scathing response after setting out his 10-policy leadership vision, Mr Corbyn suggested Labour MPs who quit would be betraying the people who voted for them.

When questioned after a speech in Dagenham about the suggestions Labour rebels could quit and form a new party if he was re-elected as leader, Mr Corbyn said: "I'm sure no Labour MP would even dream of walking away from the family of the Labour Party.

"The family of the Labour Party that helped to put them into Parliament in order to represent Labour views and Labour values."
It came after Mr Corbyn's leadership rival Owen Smith warned the Labour party could "bust apart and disappear".

He has made the survival of the party a key element of his campaign for the top job.

Mr Corbyn's close ally, the shadow chancellor John McDonnell, said Mr Smith must stop "blackmailing" party members with the threat of a split.

Mr McDonnell told Sky News it was "not right" for Labour members voting in the contest to be given an ultimatum and called for a return to an "amicable" and "comradely" contest - before branding Mr Smith the "disunity candidate".

:: Smith Criticised Over 'Smash' May 'Back On Her Heels' Comment

He told Sky News: "We shouldn't be going into a leadership election saying: 'Vote for me or some of my supporters will split the party.' People don't want to be blackmailed in that way. That's not right.

"What Owen Smith needs to do is call this off all together by saying: look, whatever the result of the election, if Jeremy Corbyn does get reselected he will serve under Jeremy Corbyn - and to say to his supporters, who are talking up this split, just stop it immediately and let's work together."

Damning Mr Smith with faint praise he added: "Owen's a great guy. I like him a lot. He is one of the most ambitious career politicians I've met. I think we've moved on from that style of politics."

:: What We Know About Owen Smith

But Mr McDonnell said the party would not split and denied that MPs who did not support Mr Corbyn had been threatened with deselection when the number of constituencies is cut later this year.

Mr Corbyn has unveiled his 10 pledges "programme" to rebuild Britain, including a £500bn investment scheme over seen by a national investment bank over the next decade.

:: Sky's Sophy Ridge On Why A Corbyn Victory Is Unlikely To Split Party

On Wednesday, Mr Smith set out his vision for the leadership, unveiling a "triple lock" of pensions overhaul, benefit changes and a higher minimum wage. Last week he made 25 policy pledges.
Mr McDonnell accused Mr Smith of "advocating the policies that Jeremy Corbyn was elected on" and there is overlap with the infrastructure fund, a ban on zero hours contracts and benefit changes.

Mr Smith has acknowledged the similarities but says Mr Corbyn has failed to sell them to the public effectively enough to win an election, something he claims he could do.

As Mr Corbyn and Mr Smith prepared to go head-to-head in a debate in Cardiff, the latest court case over the leadership voting process is due to be heard later at the High Court.

A crowd-funded group of party members are challenging the decision of Labour's ruling National Executive Committee to ban £3 supporters from voting if they did not join by 12 January unless they pay a further £25.

Meanwhile, a YouGov poll shows the Conservatives enjoying their biggest lead over Labour since November 2009.

 

[Domh245]

Did anyone watch the Smith v Corbyn debate tonight? From what I've heard it was an absolute sh*t storm

 

[J-2739]

Did anyone watch the Smith v Corbyn debate tonight? From what I've heard it was an absolute sh*t storm

I think I accidently posted that instead of the morning speech

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Did anyone watch the Smith v Corbyn debate tonight? From what I've heard it was an absolute sh*t storm

Corbyn pledged to reopen the railway line between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth. Smith appeared to agree... Make of that what you will!

 

[Domh245]

Corbyn pledged to reopen the railway line between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth. Smith appeared to agree... Make of that what you will!

Playing to the local crowd? Given that they were in Cardiff, it makes sense for them to support a project in Wales. I suspect that there will be similar pledges in other areas that they visit.

 

[Busaholic]

Playing to the local crowd? Given that they were in Cardiff, it makes sense for them to support a project in Wales. I suspect that there will be similar pledges in other areas that they visit.

They'll be promising a railway station in Monmouth next.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What's all this about Shami Chakrabarti and a peerage that has surfaced today?
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They'll be promising a railway station in Monmouth next.

What...only one.

They used to have Monmouth Troy and Monmouth Mayhill.

 

[HSTEd]

I am afraid a split becomes more and more inevitable every day.
Corbyn is really playing up the idea that the MPs have no independent mandate and must simply obey the leadership, tied to the idea that the conference should simply reverse all its settled positions because Corbyn says so and its not looking good.

The attempt to turn the party into a one man organisation with MPs as mere drones will shatter the party inevitably.

 

[ExRes]

If the membership of the Labour party choose to keep Corbyn then they deserve all they get, this is a hypocrite beyond belief who has ignored the Labour whip around 500 times and then, when leader, insists that the party follow his commands without argument, it would be comical if it wasn't so ridiculous

 

[Senex]

If the membership of the Labour party choose to keep Corbyn then they deserve all they get, this is a hypocrite beyond belief who has ignored the Labour whip around 500 times and then, when leader, insists that the party follow his commands without argument, it would be comical if it wasn't so ridiculous

He's learnt only too thoroughly from the pre-1989 socialist parties of the Eastern European "people's" or "democratic" states.

 

[Busaholic]

I am afraid a split becomes more and more inevitable every day.
Corbyn is really playing up the idea that the MPs have no independent mandate and must simply obey the leadership, tied to the idea that the conference should simply reverse all its settled positions because Corbyn says so and its not looking good.

The attempt to turn the party into a one man organisation with MPs as mere drones will shatter the party inevitably.

Maybe they put something in the air down Islington way, rather like fluoride in the water. After all, Tony Blair was an Islingtonite before moving to Downing Street. Us born-and-bred Sarf Londoners wouldn't be surprised: we never trusted anyone from those parts.

 

[12CSVT]

Maybe they put something in the air down Islington way, rather like fluoride in the water. After all, Tony Blair was an Islingtonite before moving to Downing Street. Us born-and-bred Sarf Londoners wouldn't be surprised: we never trusted anyone from those parts.

Then again there are equally untrustworthy politicians in Maidenhead, Witney and Tatton.

 

[northwichcat]

If the membership of the Labour party choose to keep Corbyn then they deserve all they get, this is a hypocrite beyond belief who has ignored the Labour whip around 500 times and then, when leader, insists that the party follow his commands without argument, it would be comical if it wasn't so ridiculous

Corbyn points to how many Labour members voted for him when ever he rejects calls to resign. However, he appointed McDonnell as Shadow Chancellor with McDonnell being the person who tried to challenge Gordon Brown for the Labour Leadership but no-one would nominate him meaning he couldn't. On the same basis shouldn't McDonnell be kept well away from any senior jobs in the Labour party?

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Andy Burnham has been confirmed as Labour candidate for mayor of Greater Manchester if elected he said he will resign as MP (forcing a by-election.)

The candidate for mayor of the Liverpool City region will be more interesting with Steve Rotheram backing Corbyn and Luciana Berger wanting Corbyn to stand down.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You know how all trade unions are Trotskyites who adore International Socialism TM and worship the cult of Corbyn?

Well, er, the GMB have just voted to support Owen Smith.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37026145

The GMB union has backed Owen Smith to become Labour leader, after balloting its membership for their views.
Mr Smith was endorsed by 60% of the 43,419 union members who voted, while 40% supported incumbent Jeremy Corbyn.
The union is one of the biggest affiliated to the party, with about 641,000 members - and is the biggest to back Mr Smith to date.
GMB boss Tim Roache said he would "proudly campaign" alongside Mr Smith, who welcomed the union's support.
Mr Smith said it was "a great honour" to receive GMB's nomination.
"I look forward to working with the GMB, its members and all in the labour movement to tackle inequality, invest in strong public services, and for Britain to have trade union and workers' rights that are the envy of the world," he said.
Guide to the Labour leadership contest
Rotheram named as Labour's mayoral candidate
Corbyn team accuses Watson in Trotsky row
The GMB did not endorse any candidate in last year's Labour leadership election, but at a its annual GMB congress earlier this year the union called for "clear and unambiguous" support for Mr Corbyn.
The union also supported a motion which called for the de-selection of any MP who refused to put on record their backing for the Labour leader.
In a statement announcing the results of the consultative ballot, GMB general secretary Mr Roache said Labour "is at a crossroads" in "dangerous political times", and that it was "time for us to face up to reality".
"I'll proudly campaign alongside Owen in the coming weeks and months to deliver on his pledges to end the public sector pay freeze, to support defence workers, to invest in health and industry, and to build an industrial strategy - these are bread and butter issues for the people I represent.
"But we can only tackle them if we're in government. That's the end game and I hope whatever the final result, the Labour Party will unite when all this is over.
"GMB members cannot afford for Labour to be talking to itself in a bubble for the next five years while the Tories run riot through our rights at work, our public services and our communities."
The union represents workers on the UK's Trident nuclear weapons programme.

 

[ExRes]

You know how all trade unions are Trotskyites who adore International Socialism TM and worship the cult of Corbyn?

Well, er, the GMB have just voted to support Owen Smith.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37026145

How many gulags would Comrade Jeremy have to build to fit in all those naughty GMB members?

 

[chris11256]

Are we perhaps getting to the stage where the only thing to remove Corbyn would be a massive loss in 2020?

Assuming he wins next month.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Then again there are equally untrustworthy politicians in Maidenhead, Witney and Tatton.

None of these, to the best of my knowledge, seem to espouse the type of socialist mantra that is currently seen to be as de rigeur at Labour Party headquarters.
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Are we perhaps getting to the stage where the only thing to remove Corbyn would be a massive loss in 2020?

Assuming he wins next month.

Even if that were to happen, who is to say that Corbyn and his faithful band of socialist cohorts, would take any notice whatsoever of such a result.

I am sure that the Conservatives are praying that Corbyn stays in post for as long as possible, as he is worth his weight in electoral advantage to the Conservative Party.

 

[DarloRich]

Even if that were to happen, who is to say that Corbyn and his faithful band of socialist cohorts, would take any notice whatsoever of such a result.

I am sure that the Conservatives are praying that Corbyn stays in post for as long as possible, as he is worth his weight in electoral advantage to the Conservative Party.

thus ensuring that those who would truly benefit from dumping the Tories continue to suffer at thier hands.

Corbyn and his momentum chaps don't think winning is important so why would losing mean he has to resign?

 

[AlterEgo]

Are we perhaps getting to the stage where the only thing to remove Corbyn would be a massive loss in 2020?

Assuming he wins next month.

A crossbow would be suitable at the moment. Guy won't leave no matter what happens.

(The crossbow comment is a joke!!)

 

[DarloRich]

How many gulags would Comrade Jeremy have to build to fit in all those naughty GMB members?

Surely Jeremy would be happy to respect thier mandate? Hold on - mandate is only an argument to be used in support of Comrade Jeremy. Silly me. :roll: