West Country Independents

[Colly405]

Travelwest have put up all the changes at last, including Wessex ones not yet on VOSA that I can find (11/11a) or others that are known but no details until now (508). No confirmation of the changes to the 16 though...
https://travelwest.info/travel_update/bus-service-changes-bristol-4th-september-2016

11 from 19th September
UWE Bower Ashton Campus – Broadmead
Wessex
Timetable and route amendment.
The service will now operate from UWE Bower Ashton Campus, Coronation Road, Redcliffe Hill, Redcliffe Way, (Return St Thomas Street, Redcliffe Mead Lane) Victoria Street, Baldwin Street, Colston Avenue, St Augustines Parade, Anchor Road.
The service will no longer serve Broadmead.
The service will operate hourly Monday to Friday during UWE term time.

11A from 19th September
UWE Bower Ashton Campus - Broadmead
Wessex
Service withdrawn.

508 Shirehampton – Southmead Hospital
Wessex
Timetable and route amendment.
The service will now operate from Dursley Road, Shirehampton towards Sea Mills and has been extended to Southmead Hospital. The service will operate Hourly Monday to Saturday daytime.

901 Portway park and ride to Clifton Village
Wessex
Service withdrawn.

 

[ooo]

Travelwest have put up all the changes at last, including Wessex ones not yet on VOSA that I can find (11/11a) or others that are known but no details until now (508). No confirmation of the changes to the 16 though...
https://travelwest.info/travel_update/bus-service-changes-bristol-4th-september-2016

11 from 19th September
UWE Bower Ashton Campus – Broadmead
Wessex
Timetable and route amendment.
The service will now operate from UWE Bower Ashton Campus, Coronation Road, Redcliffe Hill, Redcliffe Way, (Return St Thomas Street, Redcliffe Mead Lane) Victoria Street, Baldwin Street, Colston Avenue, St Augustines Parade, Anchor Road.
The service will no longer serve Broadmead.
The service will operate hourly Monday to Friday during UWE term time.

11A from 19th September
UWE Bower Ashton Campus - Broadmead
Wessex
Service withdrawn.

508Shirehampton – Southmead Hospital
Wessex
Timetable and route amendment.
The service will now operate from Dursley Road, Shirehampton towards Sea Mills and has been extended to Southmead Hospital. The service will operate Hourly Monday to Saturday daytime.

901Portway park and ride to Clifton Village
Wessex
Service withdrawn.

It looks like Wessex have pretty much given up on Bower Ashton Campus before they are challenged by First

 

[Colly405]

It looks like Wessex have pretty much given up on Bower Ashton Campus before they are challenged by First

You have to wonder what their strategy for Bristol is - by my reckoning Avonmouth will soon just have the One/One2, 11, X14, 16, 505, 506, 508, 511-514, SNF, and peak 3A/B/C/X and other contracts from Almondsbury to Parkway, etc.

Does that mix of high frequency (X14, 16, One/One2), Peak (3A/B/C/X and contracts), Off Peak (513/4/etc) and others give enough work to keep the depot busy, or are they likely to register something new?

Speculation, but if their experience with the One has resulted in them ending up with it as a short high frequency route, could they take that same approach and run high frequency from central Bristol out along another high-capacity spine to, say, St George or Horfield? Just thinking...

 

[freetoview33]

Anyway what is the situation with Wessex providing buses for Bicester Village?!

 

[THarris123]

Travelwest have put up all the changes at last, including Wessex ones not yet on VOSA that I can find (11/11a) or others that are known but no details until now (508). No confirmation of the changes to the 16 though...
https://travelwest.info/travel_update/bus-service-changes-bristol-4th-september-2016

11 from 19th September
UWE Bower Ashton Campus – Broadmead
Wessex
Timetable and route amendment.
The service will now operate from UWE Bower Ashton Campus, Coronation Road, Redcliffe Hill, Redcliffe Way, (Return St Thomas Street, Redcliffe Mead Lane) Victoria Street, Baldwin Street, Colston Avenue, St Augustines Parade, Anchor Road.
The service will no longer serve Broadmead.
The service will operate hourly Monday to Friday during UWE term time.

11A from 19th September
UWE Bower Ashton Campus - Broadmead
Wessex
Service withdrawn.

508 Shirehampton – Southmead Hospital
Wessex
Timetable and route amendment.
The service will now operate from Dursley Road, Shirehampton towards Sea Mills and has been extended to Southmead Hospital. The service will operate Hourly Monday to Saturday daytime.

901 Portway park and ride to Clifton Village
Wessex
Service withdrawn.

Correct me it I'm wrong, but the 11 says UWE to Broadmead and then says it will no longer be serving Broadmead - is it just the centre?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Correct me it I'm wrong, but the 11 says UWE to Broadmead and then says it will no longer be serving Broadmead - is it just the centre?

Think it's referring to the current route being to Broadmead but saying that it will come via Redcliffe Way, along Baldwin Street, then out through the Centre and then back out past @ Bristol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Anyway what is the situation with Wessex providing buses for Bicester Village?!

Think I read that the P&R was just utilising vehicles spare in Bristol during the University hols
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You have to wonder what their strategy for Bristol is - by my reckoning Avonmouth will soon just have the One/One2, 11, X14, 16, 505, 506, 508, 511-514, SNF, and peak 3A/B/C/X and other contracts from Almondsbury to Parkway, etc.

Does that mix of high frequency (X14, 16, One/One2), Peak (3A/B/C/X and contracts), Off Peak (513/4/etc) and others give enough work to keep the depot busy, or are they likely to register something new?

Speculation, but if their experience with the One has resulted in them ending up with it as a short high frequency route, could they take that same approach and run high frequency from central Bristol out along another high-capacity spine to, say, St George or Horfield? Just thinking...

To be honest, they've now got just the sad floor sweepings of some tendered work, a commercial punt that doesn't convince me (though I may well be wrong), and the X14 (about to be hit hard by the new First route replacing X74). The only route worth having then will be the 16

 

[THarris123]

Just noticed on VOSA

Hatch Green giving up 102 end of Sept
Carmel Bristol doing some services in and around Exeter (671, 670, 647, 633 and 669) from 15/08

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just noticed on VOSA

Hatch Green giving up 102 end of Sept
Carmel Bristol doing some services in and around Exeter (671, 670, 647, 633 and 669) from 15/08

End of Sep?? It's only a school service that they've already stopped

Those Carmel routes are a package of once a week off peak services that were Turners of Chumleigh

 

[THarris123]

End of Sep?? It's only a school service that they've already stopped

Think it says 22/9 it changes.

 

[freetoview33]

Think I read that the P&R was just utilising vehicles spare in Bristol during the University hols

That's a lot of dead miles!

And finally 901 has gone! =( I know why, but I would of still kept it as an hourly service for the time being. Ironically numbers on it have picked up more lately. Seen someone on every bus, and multiple people on some buses!

Also any news on Portway Park & Ride Railway station?

Good news about the 508 being extended it might make it a bit more viable. But sad to see it isn't going to Portway Park & Ride.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That's a lot of dead miles!

And finally 901 has gone! =( I know why, but I would of still kept it as an hourly service for the time being. Ironically numbers on it have picked up more lately. Seen someone on every bus, and multiple people on some buses!

Also any news on Portway Park & Ride Railway station?

Good news about the 508 being extended it might make it a bit more viable. But sad to see it isn't going to Portway Park & Ride.

The 901 has been a massive political sop. Seeing 2 people on the odd journey is hardly worth it; same as the 637. I've seen it a few times recently - again carrying fresh air.

Why waste money on that stuff when there are genuine requirements for meeting genuine issues of public transport need?

 

[freetoview33]

The 901 has been a massive political sop. Seeing 2 people on the odd journey is hardly worth it; same as the 637. I've seen it a few times recently - again carrying fresh air.

Why waste money on that stuff when there are genuine requirements for meeting genuine issues of public transport need?

I always agreed that every 20 mins was madness! I would of liked the following!

505: When there were Long Ashton - Clifton (Shorts) it might have linked better into the 901. Giving a Portway P & R - Long Ashton P & R.
Thing is the last year or 2 when the 901 has been running it should of been when the station was getting built!

There was a need for some service, on Sundays and Bank Hols, as seen with U5A and 15A before.

508: Extended to Portway P&R (To give a link to Southmead Hospital)

 

[KatieLouLou]

Sort of slightly out of area, but I note it appears that Wessex Bus have registered an outstation at Southampton Airport...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I always agreed that every 20 mins was madness! I would of liked the following!

505: When there were Long Ashton - Clifton (Shorts) it might have linked better into the 901. Giving a Portway P & R - Long Ashton P & R.
Thing is the last year or 2 when the 901 has been running it should of been when the station was getting built!

There was a need for some service, on Sundays and Bank Hols, as seen with U5A and 15A before.

508: Extended to Portway P&R (To give a link to Southmead Hospital)

What would the point be in linking two P&Rs?

I'm not convinced that there is a need for some service otherwise the 15A would still be around.

To be honest, I see the 901 and 637 (and the Severn Net Flyer) and wonder why such money is being wasted. We could use the money to actually support services that have half a chance of being sustainable rather than being frittered away on a myriad of services for which there is no discernable demand.

I'd sooner see the return on Kickstart funding on defined schemes than just a selection of deadbeat peripheral services that seem to have been drawn up on a desktop because "oooh, there's a gap there" rather than any actual exploration of any demand

 

[freetoview33]

Sort of slightly out of area, but I note it appears that Wessex Bus have registered an outstation at Southampton Airport...

Odd, I

 

[Kernow Dave]

For the operation of the former OFJ Connections car park buses?

 

[winston270twm]

For the operation of the former OFJ Connections car park buses?

Rotala never acquired all of OFJ, only their Heathrow Ops
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
More withdrawals:

PH1066711/119 - WESSEX BUS LTD, WESSEX HOUSE, PORT EDWARD CENTRE, ST. ANDREWS ROAD, AVONMOUTH, BRISTOL, BS11 9HS
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between TORMARTON and KINGSWOOD given service number 634 effective from 23-Oct-2016.

PH1066711/120 - WESSEX BUS LTD, WESSEX HOUSE, PORT EDWARD CENTRE, ST. ANDREWS ROAD, AVONMOUTH, BRISTOL, BS11 9HS
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between WICK and KEYNSHAM given service number 684 effective from 23-Oct-2016.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Rotala never acquired all of OFJ, only their Heathrow Ops
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
More withdrawals:

PH1066711/119 - WESSEX BUS LTD, WESSEX HOUSE, PORT EDWARD CENTRE, ST. ANDREWS ROAD, AVONMOUTH, BRISTOL, BS11 9HS
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between TORMARTON and KINGSWOOD given service number 634 effective from 23-Oct-2016.

PH1066711/120 - WESSEX BUS LTD, WESSEX HOUSE, PORT EDWARD CENTRE, ST. ANDREWS ROAD, AVONMOUTH, BRISTOL, BS11 9HS
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between WICK and KEYNSHAM given service number 684 effective from 23-Oct-2016.

Hmmm.... a few more tenders fall by the wayside. Can't remember what they worked off though.

I had a bit of time in Clifton to watch the evening peak yesterday. Noticed that some of the One/OneTwo had reasonable loads (e.g. 15-20 passengers) on board.

That said, a few half laden single decks at peak is one thing but is that enough to sustain an operation using 4/5 year old vehicles across the day/week? Very unscientific and how representative it is, I couldn't say but interesting (to me) nonetheless.

 

[matt_splat]

I think these two use to operate by bath the bus use to work the 79 in do a u18 dupe then head off to do the routes mentioned then back to bath for 79s in the evening.

I beleve it's now ran by Avonmouth

 

[winston270twm]

Hmmm.... a few more tenders fall by the wayside. Can't remember what they worked off though.

I had a bit of time in Clifton to watch the evening peak yesterday. Noticed that some of the One/OneTwo had reasonable loads (e.g. 15-20 passengers) on board.

That said, a few half laden single decks at peak is one thing but is that enough to sustain an operation using 4/5 year old vehicles across the day/week? Very unscientific and how representative it is, I couldn't say but interesting (to me) nonetheless.

It seems some of the tenders are being lost due to increased competition, whilst others are having the funding pulled.

They would be better concentrating on commercial work either filling gaps left by First Bristol service withdrawals or providing new links.

Look like First are intent on pushing Wessex out of UWE with First's newly revised / re-branded 'UWE' service.

 

[THarris123]

It seems some of the tenders are being lost due to increased competition, whilst others are having the funding pulled.

They would be better concentrating on commercial work either filling gaps left by First Bristol service withdrawals or providing new links.

Look like First are intent on pushing Wessex out of UWE with First's newly revised / re-branded 'UWE' service.

Wessex seem to have given up on everything in Bristol. I think they could fill a gap on 51 and there's a couple of other routes to go for too, but they don't seem keen. Are they short of drivers?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It seems some of the tenders are being lost due to increased competition, whilst others are having the funding pulled.

They would be better concentrating on commercial work either filling gaps left by First Bristol service withdrawals or providing new links.

Look like First are intent on pushing Wessex out of UWE with First's newly revised / re-branded 'UWE' service.

I didn't know if the 634/684 were worked off some school contract on a marginal cost basis and if the schools work had gone?

I said a week or two ago that the new UWE route was squarely aimed at removing Wessex from UWE. Same with the Bath uni changes and the U2 plus new fleet.

They could, of course, look at the 51. However, it's worth remembering that they didn't fancy the 20 when First pulled that.

 

[freetoview33]

33 Wessex services

12 to be withdrawn

1 new service!

 

[Marc]

I didn't know if the 634/684 were worked off some school contract on a marginal cost basis and if the schools work had gone?

i thought there was an extra bus at school times on 86/84 which would fit with these.

I said a week or two ago that the new UWE route was squarely aimed at removing Wessex from UWE. Same with the Bath uni changes and the U2 plus new fleet.

first bath u2 is an almost exact copy of wessex u10

They could, of course, look at the 51. However, it's worth remembering that they didn't fancy the 20 when First pulled that.

the suburbs are becoming very diffacult bus territory compared to blocks of student flats. even the mankyer parts of south bristol still have huge proportions of car owners and most importantly poeple who have never ever used buses. its a cultural thing now. the evening post has spent years telling everyone how crappy buses are and then complane and blame first when they get cut. wessex havent shown there capable of doing anything other than move students or run bristol city's ghost buses around the north of the city. no imagineation.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

i thought there was an extra bus at school times on 86/84 which would fit with these.



first bath u2 is an almost exact copy of wessex u10



the suburbs are becoming very diffacult bus territory compared to blocks of student flats. even the mankyer parts of south bristol still have huge proportions of car owners and most importantly poeple who have never ever used buses. its a cultural thing now. the evening post has spent years telling everyone how crappy buses are and then complane and blame first when they get cut. wessex havent shown there capable of doing anything other than move students or run bristol city's ghost buses around the north of the city. no imagineation.

The problem with the 51 is that it's USP is taking people from Whitchurch to Broadwalk with a few continuing into the city and it isn't great territory. Affluent enough to have cars and that leaves a core of pensioners who are not a lucrative market. Still, it is perhaps the biggest and most surprising of the Sep changes.

However, it is fair to beg the question that with the 51 (and 379) going, will the 2 and 376 be able to cope?

Of course, Wessex could operate a 51 style route or how about the much vaunted "new kid on the block" with their ghost buses. Incidentally the sole shareholder of which tweeted to BCC asking if they were interested in discussing a replacement.....as one does.

 

[winston270twm]

Wessex seem to have given up on everything in Bristol. I think they could fill a gap on 51 and there's a couple of other routes to go for too, but they don't seem keen. Are they short of drivers?

I did wonder about a replacement 51 service, as that was one of First's routes which received a lot of complaints.

I wouldn't say they've given up, First have been increasingly putting them under pressure with new UWE services, taking on tenders commercially for the past couple of years. Plus, I'm led to believe that more & more UWE student accommodation is on campus resulting in fewer passenger journeys even without the First competition. Plus some of the tenders have lost funding & those services just aren't commercially viable without it. Wessex are owned by a smaller group plc, they can't keep competing / running services indefinitely if they are barely breaking even / loss making.

Of the 12 services withdrawn, most are hourly tendered routes. Only really the 13/13A & 19 employed buses in any great number.

I will be interesting to see if Wessex can retain sufficient passenger numbers on their X14 & U18 with First's new student services in Bristol & Bath targeting those passengers rather than looking to generate new buses. What First are doing is no different to the One/One 2, at least Wessex have brought in lower fares with those routes.

Also of note, is that First Bristol are working in co-operation with Abus on some routes, whilst effectively giving Faresaver routes in Bath, notice any of that going on between First &Wessex (Rotala) ???

I'd be surprised if we don't see further new registrations for Wessex going in soon.

 

[freetoview33]

I did wonder about a replacement 51 service, as that was one of First's routes which received a lot of complaints.

I wouldn't say they've given up, First have been increasingly putting them under pressure with new UWE services, taking on tenders commercially for the past couple of years. Plus, I'm led to believe that more & more UWE student accommodation is on campus resulting in fewer passenger journeys even without the First competition. Plus some of the tenders have lost funding & those services just aren't commercially viable without it. Wessex are owned by a smaller group plc, they can't keep competing / running services indefinitely if they are barely breaking even / loss making.

Of the 12 services withdrawn, most are hourly tendered routes. Only really the 13/13A & 19 employed buses in any great number.

I will be interesting to see if Wessex can retain sufficient passenger numbers on their X14 & U18 with First's new student services in Bristol & Bath targeting those passengers rather than looking to generate new buses. What First are doing is no different to the One/One 2, at least Wessex have brought in lower fares with those routes.

Also of note, is that First Bristol are working in co-operation with Abus on some routes, whilst effectively giving Faresaver routes in Bath, notice any of that going on between First &Wessex (Rotala) ???

I'd be surprised if we don't see further new registrations for Wessex going in soon.

Of the 12 routes none were the 13/19

they are

501
502
20R
11A
84
86
620
622
625
901
684
634

Then there is the 42 which will take 2 buses and the 508 which will increase from 1 to 2 buses.

Still a fair drop in PVR!

 

[winston270twm]

Of the 12 routes none were the 13/19

they are

501
502
20R
11A
84
86
620
622
625
901
684
634

Then there is the 42 which will take 2 buses and the 508 which will increase from 1 to 2 buses.

Still a fair drop in PVR!

The 20R is one trip each way per day (school days only)
622 & 625 are 3 return trips on Sundays only
The 634 & 684 are typically one return trip on odd days only

Still nothing registered with VOSA for 11/11A

There may still be more to come over above the 42 & 508 increases

 

[freetoview33]

The 20R is one trip each way per day (school days only)
622 & 625 are 3 return trips on Sundays only
The 634 & 684 are typically one return trip on odd days only

Still nothing registered with VOSA for 11/11A

There may still be more to come over above the 42 & 508 increases

True, but Travelwest says the 11A is going and the 11 is reducing to hourly, which is a drop of 3, so they cancel out the increases.

So I make it this (Please correct me as I am sure some are wrong!) And some services might be worked off of others.

PVR

3: 10
U10: 2
11: 1
12: 2
X14: 6
16: 8
U18: 9
X18: 2
20A/C: 4
505: 6
506: 4
508: 2
511: 1
512: 1
513/514: 1
One: 6
One2: 4
SNF: 1

Total: 70?? Actual figure is most likely a bit lower, but 70 buses isn't too bad going, still must be a massive drop with the losses recently.

 

[winston270twm]

True, but Travelwest says the 11A is going and the 11 is reducing to hourly, which is a drop of 3, so they cancel out the increases.

So I make it this (Please correct me as I am sure some are wrong!) And some services might be worked off of others.

PVR

3: 10
U10: 2
11: 1
12: 2
X14: 6
16: 8
U18: 9
X18: 2
20A/C: 4
505: 6
506: 4
508: 2
511: 1
512: 1
513/514: 1
One: 6
One2: 4
SNF: 1

Total: 70?? Actual figure is most likely a bit lower, but 70 buses isn't too bad going, still must be a massive drop with the losses recently.

Sorry I don't have any idea of route Pvr's, the only one that jumps out, is the 3's requiring 10 buses, seems a bit OTT.

As of early August, taking in to account Rotala July fleetchanges, the Avonmouth allocation stood at 81 buses & Keysham 21 buses. That was following the 13/13A & 19 finishing. Not sure of future fleet plans, but there *may* still be a possibility of further new work to componsate for the loss of some tendered routes.

A couple of E200's have left Wessex to replace similar leased former OFJ E200's at Hallmark Connections (Heathrow), and B7RLE 30938 has moved to Diamond Bus Kidderminster for a new service.