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iPlayer 'Loophole' Closed

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Darandio

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May be of interest, i've seen it mentioned on here a few times that some members don't pay a licence fee because they only watch catch-up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36942458

People who watch BBC programmes only on iPlayer will be required to buy a TV licence to view the content from 1 September.

Previously a licence was only needed to watch live broadcasts, so catch-up content was technically exempt from the £145.50 annual fee.

But due to a change in the law, a licence will be needed to download or watch BBC programmes on demand.

Those who already have a TV licence will not be affected.

The change comes after the government said it wanted to modernise the current system, so those watching catch-up TV do not get "a free ride".
'All who watch pay for it'

"When the licence fee was invented, video on demand did not exist," former Culture Secretary John Whittingdale said in March.

"The BBC works on the basis that all who watch it pay for it. Giving a free ride to those who enjoy Sherlock or Bake Off an hour, a day or a week after they are broadcast was never intended and is wrong."

The new rules apply to all devices used to access iPlayer - including laptops, smartphones, tablets, TV streaming devices and games consoles, as well as through third-party services such as Sky, Virgin or BT.

However, a TV licence will still not be needed for watching other on demand services, such as ITV Player, All4, My5 or Netflix.

TV Licensing said fewer than 2% of households would be affected by the change and would "not affect the huge majority of households which are already licensed".

It added all unlicensed households would be notified of the change in law and a publicity campaign to promote awareness will be carried out before 1 September.

TV Licensing is also pushing awareness for students, many of whom will be affected at the start of the new academic year.
 
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Domh245

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I suspect that it'll be a simple case of a "Do you have a TV licence?" Yes/No popup as they have for the live broadcasts.
 

AlterEgo

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It's still laughably unenforceable.
 

GB

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Done properly, all they have to do is force you to have to make an account using the correct address and license number.
 

Chew Chew

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Done properly, all they have to do is force you to have to make an account using the correct address and license number.

And then you could just use TV Catchup instead although, despite the name, it only shows live programming.
 

Mag_seven

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Done properly, all they have to do is force you to have to make an account using the correct address and license number.

Indeed and with such a system you should then be able to watch it when abroad rather than having to watch CNN.
 

TheKnightWho

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Done properly, all they have to do is force you to have to make an account using the correct address and license number.

I don't know why they didn't do this anyway, to be honest.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I don't get your logic there.

You could log in as a license paper from anywhere in the world, and it would work because your account would be proof enough.
 

Chew Chew

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You could log in as a license paper from anywhere in the world, and it would work because your account would be proof enough.

There are going to be programmes that the BBC only have the UK rights for. If you are abroad then you shouldn't be able to watch them.

Also, what would stop me paying for a licence in the UK and giving my dad, who lives in New York state the log in?
 
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TheKnightWho

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There are going to be programmes that the BBC only have the UK rights for. If you are abroad then you shouldn't be able to watch them.

Easy enough to block it for only those programmes. They already do this for things they don't have a license to stream live (such as certain movies).
 

NSEFAN

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You can broadly tell what country an IP address is from, but identifying individual postal addresses is more involved. Some kind of login would be needed to properly close the freebee loophole. That said, you could still probably access iplayer abroad by using a VPN to the UK.
 

Clip

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Indeed and with such a system you should then be able to watch it when abroad rather than having to watch CNN.

You already can by using various means.

If people are still not using kodi for most of thier TV then theres something wrong with you all. Or at least a decent vpn
 

grid56126

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I always thought that iplayer was blocked in mainland Europe but we used it in various places in Spain and France over the last three years with no issues at all, all using free wifi at various hotels. We now pack a mini HDMi to full HDMI wherever we go.
 

Henbury Loop

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I have never paid for a TV licence whilst living here, circa 10 years.

Our house is truly hidden and you cannot get near it due to walls/gates so their enforcement people cannot catch me out.
 

TheKnightWho

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You can broadly tell what country an IP address is from, but identifying individual postal addresses is more involved. Some kind of login would be needed to properly close the freebee loophole. That said, you could still probably access iplayer abroad by using a VPN to the UK.

Your IP should trace you to somewhere in the region of about a mile from where you live.
 

AM9

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Like most digital rights management schemes, the protection can be good enough to prevent all but the most rabid of avoiders. They often like to boast about their achievements which in many cases attracts enough attention for the authorities to detect, and make a public example of them by prosecution.
Some have the view that viewing any broadcast TV in the UK where the revenue form the required TV Licence goes only towards the costs of providing BBC, Channel 4 and BBC World Service programming. Many of those who promote this argument though lose all justification by regularly watching some of the programming that they claim that they shouldn't have to pay for.
The iPlayer however is a completely different issue as it only has BBC programming on it. Therefore, there is no justification for avoiding payment if it is used. To do so would be hypocritical.
 

SpacePhoenix

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IPs can't be relied upon as people could use proxies.

Does it now mean that technically any device capable of connecting to the Internet needs a TV licence?
 

AM9

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IPs can't be relied upon as people could use proxies.

Does it now mean that technically any device capable of connecting to the Internet needs a TV licence?

No. It means that when accessing the iPlayer, anybody will be acknowledging that they must have a TV licence to proceed and failure to do that would make them liable to prosecution if the authorities were to have evidence. It's ther same as travelling without a ticket on the railways. You may not get caught, but if you do, there isn't much of a defence.
With a couple of high-profile cases, that would scare a large number of would-be violators off.
 

MichaelAMW

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I have never paid for a TV licence whilst living here, circa 10 years.

Our house is truly hidden and you cannot get near it due to walls/gates so their enforcement people cannot catch me out.

You are, however, still completely in the wrong and breaking the law. You might be interested to know that breaking the law is defined by the fact that you are breaking the law, not by the fact that you have been caught breaking the law. You, and not somebody else, is responsible for your obeying the law so the difficulty of the enforcement people reaching you makes no difference to your lack of morality in this respect whatsoever.
 

jon0844

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There are going to be programmes that the BBC only have the UK rights for. If you are abroad then you shouldn't be able to watch them.

Also, what would stop me paying for a licence in the UK and giving my dad, who lives in New York state the log in?

Apart from not being allowed to do it?

The EU was talking about changing things so you'd be able to watch what you were entitled to watch anywhere within the EU, so Sky Sports subscribers in the UK could watch in Spain, legally, when travelling.

It is likely to take some time to sort out, if it can be at all, but perhaps it won't be of much use to us if we leave the EU anyway!

If people are still not using kodi for most of thier TV then theres something wrong with you all. Or at least a decent vpn

If you're suggesting illegal streams then isn't that quite ironic on a forum that regularly talks about problems with fare evasion on the railway?!
 
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WatcherZero

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IPs can't be relied upon as people could use proxies.

Does it now mean that technically any device capable of connecting to the Internet needs a TV licence?

Any residence or business using a device capable of watching or recording live television (not catchup) requires a license, and that includes a PC, Laptop or Tablet. Your license covers you when you are outside your home but you need a separate license for each residence (defined as being separated by a lockable door in a multi residence building). E.g. each room in a student block, two required for a pub with its own flat.
 

krus_aragon

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Your IP should trace you to somewhere in the region of about a mile from where you live.

Sometimes. My current IP (over a 3G UMTS connection) is listed by various tracers as being London, Hatfield, or Wanstrow. That's about 200 miles away at best, there.
 

AM9

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Sometimes. My current IP (over a 3G UMTS connection) is listed by various tracers as being London, Hatfield, or Wanstrow. That's about 200 miles away at best, there.

Tha's just the best that an open access tracer can do. If an authorised investigator needed to locate a particular device, whether 3G, 4G or internet, the service provider would have a record of the mac address of the device and the base station or network node used for the transaction.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
... If you're suggesting illegal streams then isn't that quite ironic on a forum that regularly talks about problems with fare evasion on the railway?!

I've always been amazed by the hypocrisy and double standards that some people assume ove such 'victimless theft'. If any of those here promoting illegal practices to get TV without paying for it are employees of the railway, would they have a similar attitude to those who think it's OK to dodge fares?
 

NSEFAN

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AM9 said:
Tha's just the best that an open access tracer can do. If an authorised investigator needed to locate a particular device, whether 3G, 4G or internet, the service provider would have a record of the mac address of the device and the base station or network node used for the transaction.


Indeed, but the ideal situation would be to automatically prevent access to content to someone who is not entitled to it, therefore some kind of login based system is needed. (unless of course it's just cheaper to chase people up after the event, or not do anything and rely on FUD like with the "detector vans" :lol: ).
 

AlterEgo

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You are, however, still completely in the wrong and breaking the law. You might be interested to know that breaking the law is defined by the fact that you are breaking the law, not by the fact that you have been caught breaking the law. You, and not somebody else, is responsible for your obeying the law so the difficulty of the enforcement people reaching you makes no difference to your lack of morality in this respect whatsoever.

Perhaps so. But consider this.

The offence of evading the TV licence is a criminal offence. This means that:

a) it occupies an enormous portion of magistrates' time.
b) you must be proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

TV detection vans are a complete myth. They just don't exist; the technology isn't out there in an affordable way, and frankly I'm surprised anyone believes in them. They're as fanciful as the technology Thunderbird 1 used to deploy to catch people taking photos of it.

The only acceptable proof of the offence is either a frank admission, or for a TV licence agent to enter your home and observe that there is a television in the house.

A TV licence agent doesn't have the power to enter your home, because he doesn't have a warrant. Magistrates do not give TV licence agents search warrants, because a TV licence agent can't usually show the magistrate that there is good cause for suspicion ("the house doesn't have a licence" doesn't cut it). Additionally, it's bad PR, politically sensitive stuff to go raiding people's houses because of a TV licence, and it just doesn't happen. Possibly a couple of times a year, maybe even none. Recent FOI requests have shown, at least in Scotland, that in 2014, zero warrants were applied for.

So to avoid detection:

1) don't admit to it
2) don't let the agent into your home.

It is as simple as that. They have no more powers than the milkman.

This of course is why the law should change and it should be a civil matter. The burden of proof is only on the balance of probabilities there.

I expect the law will change within a few years.
 
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DarloRich

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So to avoid detection:

1) don't admit to it
2) don't let the agent into your home.

It is as simple as that. They have no more powers than the milkman.

Exactly - I don't have a TV ( or license) and wont be getting one now. I currently watch very little on Iplayer and will just stop.
 

SpacePhoenix

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Tha's just the best that an open access tracer can do. If an authorised investigator needed to locate a particular device, whether 3G, 4G or internet, the service provider would have a record of the mac address of the device and the base station or network node used for the transaction.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I've always been amazed by the hypocrisy and double standards that some people assume ove such 'victimless theft'. If any of those here promoting illegal practices to get TV without paying for it are employees of the railway, would they have a similar attitude to those who think it's OK to dodge fares?

MAC addresses can be faked so can't be relied upon either
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Like most digital rights management schemes, the protection can be good enough to prevent all but the most rabid of avoiders. They often like to boast about their achievements which in many cases attracts enough attention for the authorities to detect, and make a public example of them by prosecution.

It would not surprise me at all to hear of those who are most strongly opposed to tax avoidance in its many guises have developed a different set of honesty values when it comes to them having to actually use their own money to buy a TV license.
 

Tetchytyke

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Any residence or business using a device capable of watching or recording live television (not catchup) requires a license, and that includes a PC, Laptop or Tablet.

Not quite true, the offence is actually watching or recording live television, not having a device that is capable of receiving the signal. It is no offence to have a TV that is hooked up to a PlayStation and a DVD player and nothing else. Of course having a TV hooked up to an aerial is more likely to imply you're watching live TV, but it remains up to Crapita to prove it.

As before, when a Crapita "enforcement officer" rocks up to your front door you just tell them to naff off.

Paul Sidorczuk said:
It would not surprise me at all to hear of those who are most strongly opposed to tax avoidance in its many guises have developed a different set of honesty values when it comes to them having to actually use their own money to buy a TV license.

If you're watching BBC programming you should pay the TV Licence fee.

If you're not watching BBC programming then you should not have to pay the TV Licence.

I still firmly believe that the BBC should be moved to a subscription model, just as Sky and BT operate. If you want to watch BBC programmes you have to pay for them, but if you only want to watch the BBC's competitors you shouldn't. A life stuck watching ITV and Sky One is my idea of hell, so I'd willingly cough up for the BBC, but there should be a choice. If the BBC is the "national treasure" they claim they are then everyone who currently buys a licence will buy a subscription, so they won't lose money, and it'll stop the freeloaders as they'll need a subscription card to get the signal.

The licence model was ok when the BBC was the only game in town, but with modern technology it is outdated and unethical.
 
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