1992 Stock to Ongar?

[90sWereBetter]

I have a good feeling what the answer to this question will be, but was any of the 1992 stock used on the Ongar branch for the short period of time it was open, or was it only 1962 stock (given the branch was closed about six months before the 1962 stock was finally withdrawn).

Was any consideration given to the operation of the new stock on the branch, or were plans for closure already being developed in the early 1990s?

 

[Ianno87]

Someone more knowledgable than me may give a better answer, but the power supply up to Ongar was restricted, and would only support half-length stock being sent up there. I suspect full-length 92 stock wouldn't have been supported (and I'm not sure how easily they can be configured into a half-length train)

 

[Lrd]

I just found this, a 1992 stock at Ongar on test. No idea if any made it in service.

and I'm not sure how easily they can be configured into a half-length train

Very easily. The Waterloo and City line is formed of 4 car 1992 stock.

 

[Dstock7080]

No 1992 Stock worked to Ongar in passenger service, although a test trip or two did operate.

There are proposals to revert the Hainualt-Woodford shuttle back to 4-car operation with 1992 Stock, this would release an 8-car train for other work.

 

[bramling]

I have a good feeling what the answer to this question will be, but was any of the 1992 stock used on the Ongar branch for the short period of time it was open, or was it only 1962 stock (given the branch was closed about six months before the 1962 stock was finally withdrawn).

Was any consideration given to the operation of the new stock on the branch, or were plans for closure already being developed in the early 1990s?

Never used in passenger service and never envisaged to operate there - although had permission for the branch's closure been refused then there would have been a choice of making the arrangements for 92 stock to operate there, retaining another type of train including sorting compatibility with the new signalling, or laying on a replacement bus service.

There were one or two test trips operated simply to assess the viability should it ever be required. If I remember rightly there were issues with current drop as the train got further away from the substation at Epping.

 

[Nym]

No 1992 Stock worked to Ongar in passenger service, although a test trip or two did operate.

There are proposals to revert the Hainualt-Woodford shuttle back to 4-car operation with 1992 Stock, this would release an 8-car train for other work.

There are many plans to be able to release trains...

 

[Lrd]

There are many plans to be able to release trains...

Care to elaborate?

 

[whoosh]

'92 stock are all motor cars as well as being more powerful, so even a short-formed one would've been unlikely.

There are proposals to revert the Hainualt-Woodford shuttle back to 4-car operation with 1992 Stock, this would release an 8-car train for other work.

Wouldn't that need more cars with driving cabs though, to make up more trains (even if they are shorter)? Or would that be using spares currently unused?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Wouldn't that need more cars with driving cabs though, to make up more trains (even if they are shorter)? Or would that be using spares currently unused?

There are some excess driving units in the fleet, hence there always being at least four rakes with cabs in the middle, but at least three of those cabs have to be in the middle as they've had bits removed to keep the others in service... so those three would first need to be brought back up to having fully operational cabs.

 

[321over360]

Ive got a feeling following the test with the 92 stock this didnt go as well hence why the Epping - Ongar stretch closed given it could only run a single 8 car train but due to the low power in the conductor rails the only way to have kept it running would be the 1960s stock that ran it at the end

I too have heard about the 92 stock being split to make the Woodford - Hainault service a shuttle again, personally, wouldnt it just be more practical to run trains round the loop and then onto London again from both the Newbury Park and the South Woodford branches ie 2 trains come from London, one goes off to Newbury Park then round via Hainault to Woodford then when it reaches Woodford it continues back down to London (thus removing the need to lock it out and send it into the sidings) and then the 2nd train comes from London via South Woodford then onto Woodford where it then goes off via Roding Valley and onwards to Newbury Park then back off to London again?

 

[tsangpogorge]

Not completely relevant to the topic at hand but since this is a thread about the Central Line it's probably ok to put forward my question: Once Crossrail is up and running is there any longer the need for the short spur on this line from North Acton to Ealing Broadway via West Acton? West Acton is relatively speaking quite lightly used and there are three other stations in close proximity for residents in that area, North Acton for the Central Line, Acton Main Line for Ealilng Broadway plus links into town via Crossrail services and North Ealing on the Piccadilly line. Would it therefore make sense to close this short stretch thereby removing a flat junction and freeing up stock to allow higher frequencies?

 

[Ianno87]

I would've thought the stream of direct padsengers (and passengers changing off GWR) at Ealing Broadway to places such as Shepherd's Bush/Notting Hill Gate would still be very strong that Crossrail will not cater for. Plus Crossrail only serves a small number of stations that the Central Line, it is much faster and not a complete duplication of links.

Plus the Ealing Broadway branch provides part of the turnback capabilty for the western end of the Central Line (12tph or so in total) - these trains would otherwise have nowhere else to turn back with sufficient capacity.

 

[BuryBlue]

Not completely relevant to the topic at hand but since this is a thread about the Central Line it's probably ok to put forward my question: Once Crossrail is up and running is there any longer the need for the short spur on this line from North Acton to Ealing Broadway via West Acton? West Acton is relatively speaking quite lightly used and there are three other stations in close proximity for residents in that area, North Acton for the Central Line, Acton Main Line for Ealilng Broadway plus links into town via Crossrail services and North Ealing on the Piccadilly line. Would it therefore make sense to close this short stretch thereby removing a flat junction and freeing up stock to allow higher frequencies?

Closing EB would dilute the service, not increase it, as more trains would have to travel to West Ruislip because White City cannot terminate that many trains. It'd also mean more drivers, and therefore more headaches for TfL to run a decent service on the Night Tube. Whether it should be argued there should be a WR service anyway, of course, is also a valid point.

Since it's operationally convenient for LU it will not close.

Off topic again, how come LU decided that a late service to Epping would not be useful? A lot of people (myself included) use it for park and ride into London.

 

[Nippy]

Also the junction at North Acton isn't flat.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Have the EOR ever considered finding a low height industrial loco and some scrap tube cars (83 or 92) to enable them to operate a through service from Epping ?

 

[Nym]

Have the EOR ever considered finding a low height industrial loco and some scrap tube cars (83 or 92) to enable them to operate a through service from Epping ?

All 92TS is still operating and there's no 83TS left any more. The only cars left are 1967TS and some 1972Mk.I tube stock at Acton and Eastleigh.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

All 92TS is still operating and there's no 83TS left any more. The only cars left are 1967TS and some 1972Mk.I tube stock at Acton and Eastleigh.

Some have being saying ALL the 72 stock are scrap (since 1972)

 

[Nym]

Some have being saying ALL the 72 stock are scrap (since 1972)

They're better than most of the new stocks...

Some bits are likely to see their 100th birthday

 

[Mutant Lemming]

They're better than most of the new stocks...

Some bits are likely to see their 100th birthday

Well yes they are but then they (and the C stock) were the start of the bandit era and were not as good as what went before.

 

[Bishopstone]

Another query from this era:

There are videos online of the 1960 Cravens set(s), with 1938 trailer, where the cabs appear to be fitted with small wing mirrors acquired (I imagine) from road vans. Was this a crude Driver Only Operation scheme?

If so, where was the stock allowed to operate DOO? Just Epping-Ongar, or also down to Loughton/Woodford plus the Woodford-Hainault shuttle?

If not DOO, what was the purpose of the mirrors?

 

[Dstock7080]

Another query from this era:

There are videos online of the 1960 Cravens set(s), with 1938 trailer, where the cabs appear to be fitted with small wing mirrors acquired (I imagine) from road vans. Was this a crude Driver Only Operation scheme?

If so, where was the stock allowed to operate DOO? Just Epping-Ongar, or also down to Loughton/Woodford plus the Woodford-Hainault shuttle?

If not DOO, what was the purpose of the mirrors?

Yes the mirrors were for OPO work on the Woodford-Hainault shuttle.

 

[Bishopstone]

Yes the mirrors were for OPO work on the Woodford-Hainault shuttle.

Thanks. And Epping-Ongar, or did that require a guard until the very end?