Bi-Directional at Hereford

[40907]

Platforms 1 & 2 at Hereford have been signalled for bi-directional use in that Birmingham-bound services can depart from their arrival platform without running round south of the station to access platform 3.

With the recent closure of the Marches line at weekends for engineering work, the new arrangement was being tried out when I did a Hereford-Kidderminster journey recently.

I did wonder if "wrong-line" running might take place to Shelwick junction, but in practice--under a 10 mph limit-- the Birmingham service used a cross-over just north of the station to regain the northbound track to Shelwick before using the ladder junction to gain the Ledbury line.

It might be more convenient operationally for the Birmingham services to depart from platform 1, but that does mean passengers using the footbridge to access the trains.

Presumably we will have to wait for full resumption of services on the Marches line to see if this change is a permanent one. A precursor to Marches line resignalling possibly?

40907

 

[Tim M]

It would seem that LM and GW services are still reversing using the diesal sidings to depart north from platform 3. It would seem more logical for LM services to use bay platform 4 and GW to stay in platform 1. This would leave platforms 2 and 3 for AW and mid roads for freight.

See http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/HFD

Anyone know about when Marches resignalling is to happen? It was scheduled for 2017.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[40129]

That sounds about typical. so trains running from Crewe to South Wales will continue to be signalled from South Wales between Crewe (excl.) - Shrewsbury (excl.) then by local boxes as they get closer to Wales (!) for the foreseeable future

 

[40907]

Thanks for your responses.

I did get the impression from the booking clerk that departing north from platform 1, technically "wrong line" the other Saturday, was only a trial whilst the Marches line was otherwise closed for engineering work.

Maybe something they now have " in hand" for when the eventual resignalling takes place.

 

[jimm]

Thanks for your responses.

I did get the impression from the booking clerk that departing north from platform 1, technically "wrong line" the other Saturday, was only a trial whilst the Marches line was otherwise closed for engineering work.

Maybe something they now have " in hand" for when the eventual resignalling takes place.

No, you need to de-link this from the wider resignalling project.

The ability to return north from the island platform is something that LM and GWR have wanted for some time. Hence why it has been delivered ahead of the Marches resignalling.

If it has only become available in the middle of a timetable period then it's not surprising the capability is not being used day in, day out, at present, as the timetable had to be drawn up without it. Removing the need to shunt in and out of the diesel sidings all the time can only be a good thing in the long run in terms of operational flexibility.

 

[ComUtoR]

Apologies but "wrong line" working ?

Was this a "wrong direction move" in passenger service ?

 

[louis97]

I did wonder if "wrong-line" running might take place to Shelwick junction, but in practice--under a 10 mph limit-- the Birmingham service used a cross-over just north of the station to regain the northbound track to Shelwick before using the ladder junction to gain the Ledbury line.

20mph on the crossover now, up from 15mph before hand.

 

[40907]

Sorry, ComUtoR, poor choice of words by me.

Clearly as a legitimate signalled move it was not "wrong line", but it just felt strange going north on the southbound line, even if only for a couple of hundred yards or so.

Going somewhat off-topic, I wonder if Network Rail will ever reconsider the long single line sections on the Hereford-Worcester line, ie Hereford to Ledbury and Ledbury to Malvern Wells box. Maybe if the current level of service is deemed sufficient things are likely to stay as they are I suppose.

Regards

40907

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Going somewhat off-topic, I wonder if Network Rail will ever reconsider the long single line sections on the Hereford-Worcester line, ie Hereford to Ledbury and Ledbury to Malvern Wells box. Maybe if the current level of service is deemed sufficient things are likely to stay as they are I suppose.

The line will be resignalled into one or other/both ROCs (Cardiff, WMSCC) eventually.
There is resignalling work going on at the moment around Worcester/Droitwich, presumably life extension works in the existing boxes.
The single line(s) definitely affects the overall Hereford-Malvern-Worcester-Birmingham service.
The reduction of line speed between Shelwick and Ledbury doesn't help either (70mph - used to be 90).
It's become a bit of a backwater over the years.

 

[MarkyT]

Going somewhat off-topic, I wonder if Network Rail will ever reconsider the long single line sections on the Hereford-Worcester line, ie Hereford to Ledbury and Ledbury to Malvern Wells box. Maybe if the current level of service is deemed sufficient things are likely to stay as they are I suppose.

Because almost all traffic on that line starts or terminates at Hereford, as long as up traffic from Hereford to Worcester is prioritised, and sufficient terminal layover is scheduled at Hereford, then the single line constraint can be managed effectively with today's traffic levels. Although extensive doubling would be unlikely, doublng Shelwick Junction and at least a signal section a mile or two eastwards could be beneficial to provide a little more flexibility.

 

[Sprinter153]

It would seem that LM and GW services are still reversing using the diesal sidings to depart north from platform 3. It would seem more logical for LM services to use bay platform 4 and GW to stay in platform 1

Anyone know about when Marches resignalling is to happen? It was scheduled for 2017.

One still can't turn around a standard 2+8 formation HST in Platform 1 as it's over length. I have done it on a 2+7 set though, and a Turbo. That's why the services are still booked to shunt.

 

[Rich McLean]

One still can't turn around a standard 2+8 formation HST in Platform 1 as it's over length. I have done it on a 2+7 set though, and a Turbo. That's why the services are still booked to shunt.

Exactly. Also HST vice Turbo can easily happen and has happened many times in the past, so even if its booked for a 3 car, if there are issues at the London end and a HST is spare, then it can be used instead, so everything for GWR needs to be booked for a shunt for that reason

 

[jimm]

Exactly. Also HST vice Turbo can easily happen and has happened many times in the past, so even if its booked for a 3 car, if there are issues at the London end and a HST is spare, then it can be used instead, so everything for GWR needs to be booked for a shunt for that reason

HST vice Turbo swaps happen 'many times'? I wish. I have never encountered such a set swap in my life. Not saying it doesn't happen, but a Turbo instead of an HST is a rather more common occurrence, especially west of Oxford. Two-car Turbos instead of HSTs on Hereford services, even off-peak, aren't a barrel of laughs.

Given that in future, most GWR services turing round at Hereford - as opposed to coming from/returning to a depot in Bristol - will be five-car, then the station turnback will likely see regular use from some point in the next couple of years.

 

[40907]

Sorry but I don't follow "modern traction"--at least post-'68-- in any great detail, but do I assume from jimm's post above that HST's are going to soldier on in a shortened form even further into the future, presumably refurbished yet again?

Not complaining by the way, I still think they are one of the best mode of long-distance rail travel we have.

40907

 

[PHILIPE]

Sorry but I don't follow "modern traction"--at least post-'68-- in any great detail, but do I assume from jimm's post above that HST's are going to soldier on in a shortened form even further into the future, presumably refurbished yet again?

Not complaining by the way, I still think they are one of the best mode of long-distance rail travel we have.

40907[/QUOTE

Thread here re future HST plans:-

www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=132567

 

[jimm]

Sorry but I don't follow "modern traction"--at least post-'68-- in any great detail, but do I assume from jimm's post above that HST's are going to soldier on in a shortened form even further into the future, presumably refurbished yet again?

Not complaining by the way, I still think they are one of the best mode of long-distance rail travel we have.

40907

What I am referring to above is the replacement of the HSTs currently used on London-Hereford services with new Class 800 (aka IEP/IET) and Class 802 (also known as AT300) trains, which come in five-car and nine-car formations.

While the peak Hereford services will be formed of nine-car sets which will run empty from and back to the depot at Bristol, as the peak HSTs do now, off-peak Hereford trains will most likely be worked by five-car sets, which will have no need to shunt from platform 1 over to platform 3 at Hereford station.

GWR is seeking permission from the Department for Transport to retain some shortened HSTs, with four passenger coaches, to work in the West Country for an unspecified period, due to delays in transfers of Turbo diesel units from the Thames Valley as a result of the delays to the Great Western electrification project.

 

[Techniquest]

I keep looking at the new signalling at the north end of platforms 1 and 2, wondering when they'll see proper use. Maybe it'll happen in December when the timetable changes again.

There's going to be a lot of people moaning about having to use the bridge getting to the Birmingham trains, as well as on the way home, when it starts. It already happens with norms, you'd think they were having to walk the distance of the Severn Bridge the way they moan about using the bridge. You can point out the lifts, several times, in conversation and they still don't use them!

My bigger issue with Hereford is the size of the door coming out of the ticket office onto the platform. Anyone who's endured trying to get through between 0825 and 0850 will know how long it can take, due to the high volume of school and college kids coming through. It needs to be a larger doorway than it is.

A decent length passing loop between Shelwick Junction and Ledbury would help a lot, although obviously double-tracking would be far more welcome. In times of disruption a loop at Colwall would be more than useful, as anyone who's had to wait at Malvern Wells for a train from the Ledbury direction will know only too well. As will those who've been delayed at Ledbury waiting for a late running Hereford train.

Someone commented it's a backwater route, well it is treated like a rural route but it's actually a heavily used line with very good passenger numbers. A more frequent service between Hereford and Worcester would be hugely welcome as well. Sadly none of this will happen in my lifetime!

 

[40907]

I can testify to the good passenger numbers on the line. Unfortunately last autumn LM were short of stock and two-car units proved totally inadequate for the Hereford-Birmingham service. ( and I was travelling off-peak) Often full to standing leaving Malvern, only to find a platform full of passengers at Worcester, and even more at Droitwich and Bromsgrove.

I think some semblance of order has returned now with four-car trains, but maybe when the franchise come up for renewal there needs to be a substantial rethink of services on this line, certainly on the Malvern- Worcester- Bromsgrove- Birmingham section, and how that all ties in with the wires going down the Lickey to Bromsgrove.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think some semblance of order has returned now with four-car trains, but maybe when the franchise come up for renewal there needs to be a substantial rethink of services on this line, certainly on the Malvern- Worcester- Bromsgrove- Birmingham section, and how that all ties in with the wires going down the Lickey to Bromsgrove.

With 2-3tph EMUs from Bromsgrove (4-6tph from Barnt Green), there isn't going to be much spare capacity left for more Worcester/Malvern-route services to Birmingham.
By "backwater", I didn't mean it was one, far from it (I used to live there), just that BR and successors repeatedly cut back capacity, first by singling the junctions at Worcester, then the Ledbury-Hereford section (with reductions of line speed).
We are left with 4 awkward single line sections between Bromsgrove and Hereford.

 

[a good off]

The singling of the Shelwick Jn to Ledbury section and abolition of the intermediate signal box at Stoke Edith in November 1984 was insane. It causes us problems on a daily basis when trying to squeeze late running services through.

Going back a bit further to the 1960's, double track also existed between the North end of Ledbury Tunnel and Colwall station. The line originally only had two very short single line sections being Ledbury and Colwall tunnels themselves.

If you were to travel by train from Hereford to Worcester in the early 1960's you would pass a huge amount of signal boxes:

Hereford Station
Brecon Curve Jn
Barrs Court Jn
Shelwick Jn
Withington
Stoke Edith
Ashperton
Ledbury
Ledbury North End
Colwall
Malvern Wells
Great Malvern
Malvern Link
Newland West
Newland East
Bransford Road Jn
Henwick
Worcester Foregate St
Rainbow Hill Jn
Worcester Shrub Hill Jn

I make that 20 in total. The wage bill would've been massive and I can see why they wanted to rationalise. I just think that they went too far when it came to the singling of double track sections.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If you were to travel by train from Hereford to Worcester in the early 1960's you would pass a huge amount of signal boxes:
I make that 20 in total. The wage bill would've been massive and I can see why they wanted to rationalise. I just think that they went too far when it came to the singling of double track sections.

When I first met the network in 1974, nearly all the Hereford-Malvern-Birmingham services ran via Kidderminster as stoppers, taking an age.
Only a few peak trains ran on the much faster route via Bromsgrove (despite the Lickey, and only one platform at BMV).
Luckily we now have a more usable service, despite the limitations of the infrastructure.

 

[TobyH]

Currently on 1M66 HFD - BHM (153364 & 150109) and we departed from Platform 1. Was on the screens as Platform 3 but was altered about 15 mins before departure. Crossed over just to the South of Signal H10 before joining the single line at Shelwick Junction as usual.

 

[TobyH]

1M82 HFD - BHM tonight departing from Platform 2.