Annual 10 most overcrowded list

[WatcherZero]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...-england-and-wales-spring-and-autumn-2015.pdf

SPRING 2015
Most crowded destination (Morning in to afternoon out of)
1 London London Blackfriars 08:20 Govia Thameslink Railway 07:00 Brighton Bedford 09:25 8car 222%
2 London London Paddington 08:16 Great Western Railway 07:34 Didcot Parkway London Paddington 08:16 5car 200%
3 Manchester Manchester Oxford Road 08:24 TransPennine Express 04:22 Glasgow Central Manchester Airport 08:47 4car 193%
4 Manchester Manchester Oxford Road 16:19 TransPennine Express 16:00 Manchester Airport Edinburgh Waverley 19:40 4car 174%
5 London Ealing Broadway 08:14 Heathrow Connect 07:51 Heathrow Terminal 5 London Paddington 08:24 5car 170%
6 London London Waterloo 08:19 South West Trains 07:32 Woking London Waterloo 08:19 12car 168%
7 London London Paddington 07:54 Great Western Railway 07:07 Henley-On-Thames London Paddington 07:54 5car 166%
8 London Elephant & Castle 08:39 Govia Thameslink Railway 08:08 Sutton St. Albans City 09:29 8car 166%
9 London London Euston 17:46 London Midland 17:46 London Euston Crewe 20:25 8car 163%
10 London London Waterloo 08:22 South West Trains 07:14 Alton London Waterloo 08:22 12car 160%

AUTUMN 2015

1 London London Blackfriars 08:20 Govia Thameslink 06:57 Brighton Bedford 09:25 8car 229% (+7% in 6 months, Service 27 minutes later was 161% #7 in 2014)
2 Manchester Manchester Oxford Road 08:22 TransPennine Express 04:22 Glasgow Central Manchester Airport 08:47 4car 215% (+18% in 6 months, +39% in 12 months)
3 Manchester Manchester Oxford Road 16:19 TransPennine Express 16:00 Manchester Airport Edinburgh Waverley 19:40 4car 196% (+22% in 6 months, +11% in 12 months)
4 Manchester Manchester Oxford Road 18:19 TransPennine Express 18:00 Manchester Airport Edinburgh Waverley 21:38 4car 176% (New entry, +15% in 12 months)
5 London Elephant & Castle 08:20 Govia Thameslink 08:02 Beckenham Junction Bedford 09:38 8car 171% (new entry)
6 London London Euston 17:46 London Midland 17:46 London Euston Crewe 20:25 8car 166% (+3% in 6 months)
7 London London Waterloo 08:19 South West Trains 07:32 Woking London Waterloo 08:19 12car 166% (-2% in 6 months, +6% in 12 months)
8 London London Blackfriars 17:40 Govia Thameslink 16:26 Bedford Brighton 19:02 8car 166% (new entry)
9 London London Waterloo 08:08 South West Trains 06:51 Southampton Airport P’way London Waterloo 08:08 10car 163% (new entry)
10 Manchester Manchester Oxford Road 09:23 TransPennine Express 06:15 Edinburgh Waverley Manchester Airport 09:47 4car 161% (new entry)


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...file/541587/rail-passengers-crowding-2015.pdf

General overcrowding statistics

City, Morning overcrowding, (annual change), evening overcrowding, (annual change)
Birmingham 2.4% (+0.8%) 1.4% (+0.6%)
Bristol 0.7% (+0.7%) 2.2% (+2.0%)
Cardiff 2.1% (+1.6%) 1.4% (+0.8%)
Leeds 2.2% (+0.4%) 1.3% (-0.1%)
Leicester 1.2% (+0.2%) 3.6% (+0.7%)
Liverpool 0.0% (0.0%) 0.1% (-0.3%)
Manchester 3.7% (-0.6%) 2.1% (-0.3%)
Newcastle 0.0% (-1.0%) 0.0% (0.0%)
Nottingham 0.1% (-0.1%) 0.1% (-0.9%)
Sheffield 1.6% (+0.5%) 0.7% (+0.1%)
London 5.8% (+0.4%) 2.8% (+0.2%)

Edit1: added Autumn list and 6 month comparison
Edit2: Added 12 month comparison to services which appeared on Autumn 2014 list

 

[DarloRich]

Newcastle - NOT overcrowded!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Newcastle - NOT overcrowded!

Of course not. Standing for less than 20 minutes isn't counted in the same way, and the biggest flow to/from Newcastle is to Chester-le-Street and Durham. The PiXC in Newcastle was sorted when the morning Hexham-Newcastle train went to 2x142.

What I find most interesting is seven out of those ten "most overcrowded" trains are using train lengths far lower than the maximum permitted on their route. The Thameslinks are 8-car when they can run 12-car, the TPEs are 4-car when they can run 8-car, the FGWs are 5-car when they can run 6/7-car, and the LM is 8-car when they can run 12-car.

 

[DarloRich]

You get my point!

Are 12's cleared for the Crewe LM trains?

 

[gordonthemoron]

9 London London Euston 17:46 London Midland 17:46 London Euston Crewe 20:25 8car 163%

presumably this is a service which Milton Keynes commuters should use as Virgin can't be bothered to set down at Milton Keynes?

 

[YorkshireBear]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/541218/top-10-overcrowded-train-services-england-and-wales-autumn-2015.csv/preview

This link shows a different op 10??? Which is right?

 

[OwlMan]

You get my point!

Are 12's cleared for the Crewe LM trains?

No some stations are still 8 car length

 

[WatcherZero]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/541218/top-10-overcrowded-train-services-england-and-wales-autumn-2015.csv/preview

This link shows a different op 10??? Which is right?

Looks like they've added a second list so theres now a Spring 2015 and Autumn 2015 list. I will add the second list.

 

[The Ham]

What I find most interesting is seven out of those ten "most overcrowded" trains are using train lengths far lower than the maximum permitted on their route. The Thameslinks are 8-car when they can run 12-car, the TPEs are 4-car when they can run 8-car, the FGWs are 5-car when they can run 6/7-car, and the LM is 8-car when they can run 12-car.

Although they "can" run longer trains, do they have the rolling stock to do so?

I would expect once new franchises start to operate their new trains there could be a number of changes in the top ten.

 

[imagination]

the FGWs are 5-car when they can run 6/7-car

The one from Henley is the one that has been sat on platform 5 at Twyford and thus can't realistically be any longer than it is without markedly increasing the time between trains right at the peak of the rush hour.
It would also require you to do one of the following:
- leave an entire train doing nothing on Twyford platform 5 for the whole of the peak period and also lose the well-used direct train from Reading to Henley
- get rid of the earlier train to London (this one would negate the need to do the above but would likely make the train even more crowded)
- use platform 4 (on the London-bound reliefs) for every train to/from Henley throughout the peaks.

 

[swt_passenger]

There will always be a top ten, no matter what gets done, as long as DfT issue the stats; so this annual news during the newspaper silly season will just carry on for ever.

I always think that even if commuter TOCs generally doubled all their trains, people would still graduate to the one right in the middle of the peak that got them to work at exactly their (and everyone else's) preferred time, so there'll always be a packed train somewhere.

...Unless of course they make all seats compulsorily reservable...

 

[infobleep]

Funny you should day that. On South West Trains 39% have to stand when they arrive into Waterloo between 8-9am but leaving between 5-6pm in the evening it drops to just 27%.

This surely means people spread out more in their evening commute home than their morning one. I use South West Trains figures as they are the only one that the Evening Standard decided quote figures for, for each way.

At the very bottom they give the general figure across London, which are less than some individual stations which is why they hide it and hope people don't read until the end. I always read the beginning and the end and may be the middle if I feel like it.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[fowler9]

Funny you should day that. On South West Trains 39% have to stand when they arrive into Waterloo between 8-9am but leaving between 5-6pm in the evening it drops to just 27%.

This surely means people spread out more in their evening commute home than their morning one. I use South West Trains figures as they are the only one that the Evening Standard decided quote figures for, for each way.

At the very bottom they give the general figure across London, which are less than some individual stations which is why they hide it and hope people don't read until the end. I always read the beginning and the end and may be the middle if I feel like it.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

I guess that is because a decent percentage of the population would rather knock around London after the working day rather than hang around there waiting to go to work.

To take this to the extreme I would rather be shot in the face than hang around my place of work an hour before I start. Afterwards I may pop to a pub nearby. I can't really do that before work. Ha ha.

 

[northwichcat]

Funny you should day that. On South West Trains 39% have to stand when they arrive into Waterloo between 8-9am but leaving between 5-6pm in the evening it drops to just 27%.

This surely means people spread out more in their evening commute home than their morning one. I use South West Trains figures as they are the only one that the Evening Standard decided quote figures for, for each way.

At the very bottom they give the general figure across London, which are less than some individual stations which is why they hide it and hope people don't read until the end. I always read the beginning and the end and may be the middle if I feel like it.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

In my area the morning services have higher loadings because of school and college pupils travelling at the same time as workers. However, Northern seem to run more single Pacers in the evening peak so overcrowding isn't always minimised in the evenings
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Looks like they've added a second list so theres now a Spring 2015 and Autumn 2015 list. I will add the second list.

The autumn one highlights overcrowding on TPE services is getting worse.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

In my area the morning services have higher loadings because of school and college pupils travelling at the same time as workers. However, Northern seem to run more single Pacers in the evening peak so overcrowding isn't always minimised in the evenings
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The autumn one highlights overcrowding on TPE services is getting worse.

Both good points - even in that there London - school flows and am commuter flows clash (everyone has that 0830 "be there" curfew. PM has a lot more "flexibility" - so why does poor TPE buck the trend ...?

 

[jopsuk]

Evening peaks everywhere on all forms of transport are more diffuse than morning peaks, this is a wells established phenomenon

 

[northwichcat]

The 1700 TPE departure from the Airport for Scotland misses out Wigan to prevent commuters from overcrowding a regional service. Presumably that means passengers prefer the earlier or later services to using the slower Northern service operated by older stock.

Also worth noting the 1800 TPE Scottish service used to be attached to a Barrow service when TPE used 185s so there were 6 x 23m carriages until Preston.

 

[Stewart2887]

I'm quite surprised by these results. I would have thought Didcot/Reading/Paddington would feature much more; being actually unable to get on an HST at Didcot seems quite common

 

[matt_world2004]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...-england-and-wales-spring-and-autumn-2015.pdf

SPRING 2015
Most crowded destination (Morning in to afternoon out of)
1 London London Blackfriars 08:20 Govia Thameslink Railway 07:00 Brighton Bedford 09:25 8car 222%
2 London London Paddington 08:16 Great Western Railway 07:34 Didcot Parkway London Paddington 08:16 5car 200%
3 Manchester Manchester Oxford Road 08:24 TransPennine Express 04:22 Glasgow Central Manchester Airport 08:47 4car 193%
4 Manchester Manchester Oxford Road 16:19 TransPennine Express 16:00 Manchester Airport Edinburgh Waverley 19:40 4car 174%
5 London Ealing Broadway 08:14 Heathrow Connect 07:51 Heathrow Terminal 5 London Paddington 08:24 5car 170%
6 London London Waterloo 08:19 South West Trains 07:32 Woking London Waterloo 08:19 12car 168%
7 London London Paddington 07:54 Great Western Railway 07:07 Henley-On-Thames London Paddington 07:54 5car 166%
8 London Elephant & Castle 08:39 Govia Thameslink Railway 08:08 Sutton St. Albans City 09:29 8car 166%
9 London London Euston 17:46 London Midland 17:46 London Euston Crewe 20:25 8car 163%
10 London London Waterloo 08:22 South West Trains 07:14 Alton London Waterloo 08:22 12car 160%

AUTUMN 2015

1 London London Blackfriars 08:20 Govia Thameslink 06:57 Brighton Bedford 09:25 8car 229% (+7% in 6 months, Service 27 minutes later was 161% #7 in 2014)
2 Manchester Manchester Oxford Road 08:22 TransPennine Express 04:22 Glasgow Central Manchester Airport 08:47 4car 215% (+18% in 6 months, +39% in 12 months)
3 Manchester Manchester Oxford Road 16:19 TransPennine Express 16:00 Manchester Airport Edinburgh Waverley 19:40 4car 196% (+22% in 6 months, +11% in 12 months)
4 Manchester Manchester Oxford Road 18:19 TransPennine Express 18:00 Manchester Airport Edinburgh Waverley 21:38 4car 176% (New entry, +15% in 12 months)
5 London Elephant & Castle 08:20 Govia Thameslink 08:02 Beckenham Junction Bedford 09:38 8car 171% (new entry)
6 London London Euston 17:46 London Midland 17:46 London Euston Crewe 20:25 8car 166% (+3% in 6 months)
7 London London Waterloo 08:19 South West Trains 07:32 Woking London Waterloo 08:19 12car 166% (-2% in 6 months, +6% in 12 months)
8 London London Blackfriars 17:40 Govia Thameslink 16:26 Bedford Brighton 19:02 8car 166% (new entry)
9 London London Waterloo 08:08 South West Trains 06:51 Southampton Airport P’way London Waterloo 08:08 10car 163% (new entry)
10 Manchester Manchester Oxford Road 09:23 TransPennine Express 06:15 Edinburgh Waverley Manchester Airport 09:47 4car 161% (new entry)


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...file/541587/rail-passengers-crowding-2015.pdf

General overcrowding statistics

City, Morning overcrowding, (annual change), evening overcrowding, (annual change)
Birmingham 2.4% (+0.8%) 1.4% (+0.6%)
Bristol 0.7% (+0.7%) 2.2% (+2.0%)
Cardiff 2.1% (+1.6%) 1.4% (+0.8%)
Leeds 2.2% (+0.4%) 1.3% (-0.1%)
Leicester 1.2% (+0.2%) 3.6% (+0.7%)
Liverpool 0.0% (0.0%) 0.1% (-0.3%)
Manchester 3.7% (-0.6%) 2.1% (-0.3%)
Newcastle 0.0% (-1.0%) 0.0% (0.0%)
Nottingham 0.1% (-0.1%) 0.1% (-0.9%)
Sheffield 1.6% (+0.5%) 0.7% (+0.1%)
London 5.8% (+0.4%) 2.8% (+0.2%)

Edit1: added Autumn list and 6 month comparison
Edit2: Added 12 month comparison to services which appeared on Autumn 2014 list

With all the GWR and HC services shows how crossrail is desperately needed.

 

[Domh245]

I'm quite surprised by these results. I would have thought Didcot/Reading/Paddington would feature much more; being actually unable to get on an HST at Didcot seems quite common

That'd be because the HSTs standing capacity isn't very good compared to commuter units. A crush loaded HST may only be 10% over it's seated capacity for example, when we are looking at up to 60% over capacity for the top 10.

 

[bb21]

Expect the appearance of the Southampton Airport one in the autumn list to be a brief one, as the train is now a 12-car.

 

[WatcherZero]

Will still be overcrowded though probably not by the 160% minimum required to place on these lists.

 

[Bromley boy]

Of course not. Standing for less than 20 minutes isn't counted in the same way, and the biggest flow to/from Newcastle is to Chester-le-Street and Durham. The PiXC in Newcastle was sorted when the morning Hexham-Newcastle train went to 2x142.

What I find most interesting is seven out of those ten "most overcrowded" trains are using train lengths far lower than the maximum permitted on their route. The Thameslinks are 8-car when they can run 12-car, the TPEs are 4-car when they can run 8-car, the FGWs are 5-car when they can run 6/7-car, and the LM is 8-car when they can run 12-car.

Platform length will be a factor, I suspect. Eg. The Beckenham J - Bedford service uses the 8 car bay platform at Beckenham J.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Are 12's cleared for the Crewe LM trains?

The Crewe train always used to be a 12-car at 1805, dropping eight at Northampton, before they changed the timetable. No reason why the same couldn't apply now, dropping them at Milton Keynes (where most of the traffic goes anyway).

 

[Bromley boy]

Also, not to minimise the problem of overcrowding, but it's interesting to note that the tone of the press seems to reflect the public belief that not getting a seat = cattle truck conditions. Eg. The Times headline states "third of commuters have to stand on trains". No sh*t Sherlock - this is why modern rolling stock (eg 376/378s) offers increased standing room at the expense of seats.

It's hardly unreasonable that people should be expected to stand on short commuter journeys in some of the most densely populated areas of the country.

 

[swt_passenger]

Expect the appearance of the Southampton Airport one in the autumn list to be a brief one, as the train is now a 12-car.

They do mention that in the explanations part of report; but it runs at a popular time so if my earlier theory is correct, passenger numbers might expand to fill the additional 122 seats and it'll still carry the same standing load...

Here's the local MP's take on the subject from Dec last year:

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/14116161.Commuter_warning_over__nightmare__new_train_seating/

Note how he says he thought the blue trains were being 'phased out', bless him; and also that the report refers to the additional seating 'being installed'.

 

[Flamingo]

I'm quite surprised by these results. I would have thought Didcot/Reading/Paddington would feature much more; being actually unable to get on an HST at Didcot seems quite common

I have NEVER known a HST that was unable to board people at Didcot Parkway in commuter service. What does happen at Didcot Parkway is that after the vestibule closest to the top of the stairs is full, the extremly efficient platform staff will not hold the train for late-comers to run along the platform, but will tell them to wait for the next train, ensuring the train leaves on time.

Reading, unfortunatly, will hold trains for runners. Which is quite annoying when one can see the next train is due in on the ajecent platform in two or three minutes.

 

[Bodiddly]

Office hours = nightmare commute at certain times of the day. It's a very simple problem with a very complicated resolution. More flexible working should be embraced by employers instead of this insistence that people turn up for work at 9 o'clock on the dot. Unfortunately because of the way industry works, there is not much chance of a solution anytime soon.

 

[transmanche]

Office hours = nightmare commute at certain times of the day. It's a very simple problem with a very complicated resolution. More flexible working should be embraced by employers instead of this insistence that people turn up for work at 9 o'clock on the dot. Unfortunately because of the way industry works, there is not much chance of a solution anytime soon.

Transport operators have been trying to get this message across for decades. This London Transport poster is from the 1940s.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I used to work 1B92 from Southampton Airport to Waterloo from time to time until the timetables changed in December, I can say without a doubt that I was always able to work the train after Winchester (non stop to Woking) and the only standees were the ones who opted to stand near the front rather than sit near the back. Only at Woking did that train get overcrowded so that's only 25 minutes, but it is the only fast train from Woking to Waterloo between 0729 and 0754 so has heavy loading from that station. The next fast fast is 1A18 (also on the list) and the only alternative is the 0732 stopper (also on the list).