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Jeremy Corbyn & Tom Watson elected leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party

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cjmillsnun

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Good point.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In fairness to Labour, they have more female MP's than the Conservatives.

_82868268_party_female_male_square_624_v3.png


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32601280

To be fair to the Lib Dems. They could fit their current number of MPs in a minibus.
 
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Harbornite

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The vast majority of Smith's pledges are things Corbyn has already stated he would do himself.

I'm not sure of Corbyn's position on HS3 though, but I do know he's generally quite pro-rail.

I thought 'd share this...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/owen-smith-makes-20-pledges-8502852#ICID=sharebar

Owen Smith makes 20 pledges if he's Labour leader - but how many has Jeremy Corbyn suggested before?

Team Corbyn accused the Labour leadership rival of nicking their ideas - a claim Mr Smith rejects. So who's right? We went digging for the truth

Smith made some big pledges today - so how many have we heard before
Owen Smith unveiled a mammoth list of 20 left-wing policies today as he vowed to focus Labour on "cold-eyed socialist revolution".

But Labour's leadership challenger prompted a war of words with Team Corbyn - who basically accused him of nicking their ideas.

A spokesman for the Jeremy For Labour campaign welcomed the speech because it had "policies announced in recent months by Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell."

They added his pledge to set up a Ministry of Labour had won support from John McDonnell only last month.

Owen Smith attacked for saying he wants to 'smash Theresa May back on her heels'
In response Mr Smith said the Shadow Cabinet had been "devoid of ideas quite often" - he'd not heard the Ministry of Labour idea there once - and Corbyn and McDonnell had been "weak".

Owen Smith unveiled a huge action plan of left-wing ideas in his speech
Team Smith later sprang into action, telling journalists Mr McDonnell only saw a Ministry of Labour as a "contribution to the debate".

A Smith spokesman added curtly: "If he now full-heartedly supports it, that is wonderful news".

So with all guns blazing in the information wars, what's the truth?

We've taken a look through all 20 policies and looked for any reference to them in Mr Corbyn's Commons appearances, Labour Party Conference speech and interviews.

We found just four were previous Corbyn policies and seven were not - with the other nine dangling somewhere in between.

Here's how it breaks down.


1. Create equality of outcome
What has Owen Smith promised? He will focus on equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? This almost too general to compare. Mr Corbyn said on July 21: "Over the next couple of months, our campaign will set out how we plan to defeat the Tories and elect a Labour government that will act to tame the forces holding people back - of inequality, neglect, insecurity, prejudice and discrimination - and to build a society in which no one and no community is left behind."

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? SORT OF


2. Scrap the DWP in favour of Ministry for Labour
What has Owen Smith promised? He will scrap the DWP and replace it with a Ministry for Labour and a Department for Social Security.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? He doesn't appear to have pledged to scrap the DWP. Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell did offer broad support to a manifesto by the Institute of Employment Rights on June 30 that vowed - among many other things - to create a Ministry of Labour. He didn't announce it as a specific policy, but Mr Corbyn suggested a Ministry of Labour during last year's leadership campaign.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? SORT OF


3. Return to wage councils
What has Owen Smith promised? He will return to 'modern wages councils' for hotel, shop and care workers to strengthen terms and conditions.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? We don't believe this is a specific Jeremy Corbyn policy.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO


4. Ban zero-hour contracts
What has Owen Smith promised? He will ban zero-hour contracts.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? He said on June 16: "As well as outlawing these exploitative contracts in Britain, we should go further and work with our allies to establish a European minimum standard of rights at work to stop undercutting and give people the job security they need."

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES


5. Stop the public sector pay freeze
What has Owen Smith promised? He will end the public sector pay freeze.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? He campaigned on the issue of ending the freeze of 1% rises last summer, although Hansard records suggest he hasn't mentioned the words "pay freeze" or "public sector pay" since he became leader.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES, MORE OR LESS


6. Give staff at small firms a voice
What has Owen Smith promised? He will extend the legal right to be consulted about company changes to cover all workplaces with fewer than 50 employees.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? We don't believe this is a specific Jeremy Corbyn policy.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO


7. Give workers a say on bosses' pay
What has Owen Smith promised? He will ensure lower-paid workers are represented on remuneration committees, which set pay for the highest-level directors of big firms.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? Although several politicians including David Miliband and Liz Kendall have raised this idea before, and Mr Corbyn has said Britain should crack down on executive pay, we don't believe this is a specific Jeremy Corbyn policy.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO

8. Repeal the Trade Union Act
What has Owen Smith promised? He will repeal the "vicious and vindictive" Trade Union Act, a crackdown on rights passed by the Tories earlier this year.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? He vowed to repeal the same reforms as early as December.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES


9. Raise NHS spending by 4%
What has Owen Smith promised? Increase spending on the NHS by 4% in real terms in every year of the next parliament.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? He has attacked NHS deficits and cuts several times, telling David Cameron on December 16 that "NHS trusts are forecasting a deficit of £2.2 billion this year. There is a problem of NHS funding. Has he forgotten the simple maxim that prevention is cheaper and better than cure?" However, Mr Corbyn has not set a figure and his allies point out that, with inflation, Mr Smith's pledge could mean 8% more spending every year.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO


10. Raise NHS spending to the European average
What has Owen Smith promised? He has committed to bringing NHS funding up to the European average within the first term of a Labour Government. Kings Fund research in January put Britain 13th out of 15 nations.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? See above in general terms - but we don't believe this is a specific Jeremy Corbyn policy.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO


11. Spend more on schools and libraries
What has Owen Smith promised? He will spend more on schools and libraries to "re-open libraries and reduce class sizes".

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? On April 20 he condemned the Tories for slashing schools spending 7% in real terms. On May 18 he added: "When they slash local authorities’ budgets, leisure centres, libraries and children’s centres close. When they close fire stations and cut firefighters’ jobs, response times increase and more people are in danger of dying in fires. This austerity is a political choice, not an economic necessity. It is a wrong choice for our country, made by a Government with the wrong priorities." While we can't find a repeat of this specific policy, it seems implied.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES, MORE OR LESS


12. Bring back the 50p tax rate
What has Owen Smith promised? He will bring back Labour's 50p income tax rate for £150,000 earners which the Tories scrapped.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? His right-hand man, Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell, said on Question Time on March 3: "We opposed the 45p and we would put it back at 50p and leave it at that".

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES


13. Reverse Tory corporation tax cuts
What has Owen Smith promised? He will reverse the Tories' plans to cut corporation tax from 20% to 17% between now and 2020.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? Asked how he'd make up the funding to stop cuts to Personal Independence Payments (PIP), he told the BBC on March 21: "The tax cuts they've proposed in corporation tax and capital gains tax would pay for that so I suggest they just don't go ahead with those tax cuts at the top end of the scale." We can't find a specific pledge to reverse the cuts retrospectively, but it seems implied.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES, MORE OR LESS


14. Reverse Tory inheritance tax cuts
What has Owen Smith promised? He will reverse Tory plans to bring in a new £175,000 tax-free allowance per person for the value of a house - bringing the total to £500,000 (£1million for a couple).

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? In last year's Labour conference speech Mr Corbyn said he would fight inheritance tax cuts "every inch of the way". Also at conference he said the tax should be "graded". John McDonnell said in April a £500,000 rate showed "something wrong in the system". We can't find a specific pledge to reverse the cuts retrospectively, but it seems implied.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES, MORE OR LESS


15. Reverse Tory capital gains tax cuts
What has Owen Smith promised? He will reverse the Tories' cut in the tax - affecting just 0.3% people - from 28% to 20% for high earners and 18% to 10% for other people.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? See point 13. We can't find a specific pledge to reverse the cuts retrospectively, but it seems to be implied.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES, MORE OR LESS


16. Hit the 1% with a new wealth tax
What has Owen Smith promised? He will introduce a 15% levy on "unearned income from investment" for people who earn £150,000 or more a year.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? Mr Corbyn has repeatedly said the rich must shoulder more of a burden. But we don't believe this is a specific Jeremy Corbyn policy.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO


17. Launch a £200bn 'New Deal'
What has Owen Smith promised? He will invest £200billion in "infrastructure, housing and people" funded by government bonds.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? He voiced similar commitment to infrastructure in last year's conference speech, where he proposed a state-owned National Investment Bank to raise finance. "With interest rates so low now is the time for public investment in our infrastructure," he said. He added this would run to billions of pounds but we can't find a specific £200bn figure.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? SORT OF


18. Build High Speed 2 and High Speed 3
What has Owen Smith promised? He will commit to delivering the HS2 rail line from London to Birmingham and beyond, and the HS3 link between Manchester and Leeds.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? His (now former) Shadow Transport Secretary voiced full support for HS2, but Mr Corbyn said on October 1 the government should "look very closely" at stopping the line before London's Euston station. Then on March 17 he said HS3 should be given the green light before London's Crossrail 2.


Is this a previous Corbyn policy? SORT OF


19. Build 1.5million new homes
What has Owen Smith promised? He will ensure 300,000 homes are built in every year of the next parliament – 1.5 million over five years.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? Labour under his leadership said it would build 100,000 council and housing association homes a year. We haven't seen a specific figure on private homes.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO


20. Invest in energy efficiency
What has Owen Smith promised? He claims he will end "the scandal of fuel poverty" by investing in efficient energy.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? In last year's conference speech he promised "a Green New Deal investing in renewable energy and energy conservation to tackle the threat of climate change".

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES


TOTAL

PREVIOUS CORBYN IDEAS: 4

YES... MORE OR LESS: 5

SORT OF: 4

NOT CORBYN IDEAS: 7
 
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DarloRich

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If you were a record you'd not be broken, you'd be separated in to billions of individual carbon and hydrogen atoms [emoji13] .

Did he stand you up on a date or something?

I take no pleasure in it but he cant deliver us a labour government - although i am not sure he wants to. I would also suggest his supporters live in a deluded bubble where electoral and political reality are unwelcome visitors.
 
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asylumxl

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I take no pleasure in it but he cant deliver us a labour government - although i am not sure he wants to. I would also suggest his supporters live in a deluded bubble where electoral and political reality are unwelcome visitors.
Ed Milliband couldn't. Jeremy Corbyn can't. Who are we going to blame when Owen Smith can't?
 

Harbornite

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Find a leader who appeals to the majority of the electorate, is not left-leaning and doesn't drag us into illegal wars. Then you will have a chance. Good luck with all that...
 

Busaholic

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You obviously don't remember when a Taxi would have sufficed - none of the occupants would be from an ethnic minority either :idea:

I don't think many would have wanted to share a taxi with Cyril Smith, even if they weren't then aware of his 'proclivities':lol:
 

Senex

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Find a leader who appeals to the majority of the electorate, is not left-leaning and doesn't drag us into illegal wars. Then you will have a chance. Good luck with all that...
But practical politics doesn't go with purity of left-wing doctrine. The left is never so happy as when talking amongst friends -- outreach doesn't seem to be very high on the agenda.
 

DarloRich

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Ed Milliband couldn't. Jeremy Corbyn can't. Who are we going to blame when Owen Smith can't?

Look at the polls. Yes I KNOW they are an MSM?/Zionist/Blairite invention designed to prevent the sainted Corbyn from reaching power but they are all we have:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

The numbers are awful. The latest ones (CON 43%(+4), LAB 27%(-2), LDEM 8%(-1), UKIP 13(-1) ) are disgraceful.

Corbyn doesn't reach out beyond his bubble and connect with non members living in the real world and nor does he want to. I think he has to go as he has no ability or desire to deliver a Labour government. Although I am certain his Momentum chums will return him to the leaders office

Surely the result of this insular policy is obvious. Catastrophic defeat and an increased conservative majority. Perhaps that what they want. After all, winning elections isn't important to Momentum. Saying nice things seems more important than doing something about inequality in society. Perhaps Smith couldn't change that but he would at least try to reach out to non members and those not on the same page as Corbyn.
 
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ainsworth74

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If that Conservative figure actually was a the popular vote percentage at an election that would be the highest proportion of the popular vote since Tony Blair in 1997!
 

DarloRich

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If that Conservative figure actually was a the popular vote percentage at an election that would be the highest proportion of the popular vote since Tony Blair in 1997!

Indeed - and the worrying thing for Labour is that when the polls are wrong they are usually wrong in our favour!
 

Trog

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If that Conservative figure actually was a the popular vote percentage at an election that would be the highest proportion of the popular vote since Tony Blair in 1997!

And the above is for a serving government that has just lost its leader, and had to elect another after having the electorate throw a large custard pie in its face, in difficult economic times.

If the Conservatives have a bit of luck with Brexit going reasonably well and the world economy picking up, so people start to have a feel good factor, while nothing changes for Labour. Come the next election Labour will be able to share the Liberals mini bus on their way to watch Jimmy Cranky the new leader of the opposition perform at Prime Ministers Question Time.
 

northwichcat

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And some of the 'Corbyn policies' in that list were in fact Miliband policies: http://www.labour.org.uk/page/-/BritainCanBeBetter-TheLabourPartyManifesto2015.pdf

Although, it's good to see Smith has given an actual figure for the increase in NHS spending, opposed to Miliband's vague increase NHS spending claim. That was really the problem with Miliband's policies both the Conservatives and the Lib Dems said they'd increase the personal allowance to £12,500 but Miliband instead said he'd reintroduce the 10p tax rate without giving any upper or lower limit for it so people didn't know whether they'd be better or worse off with Miliband as PM.
 

asylumxl

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Look at the polls. Yes I KNOW they are an MSM?/Zionist/Blairite invention designed to prevent the sainted Corbyn from reaching power but they are all we have:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

The numbers are awful. The latest ones (CON 43%(+4), LAB 27%(-2), LDEM 8%(-1), UKIP 13(-1) ) are disgraceful.

Corbyn doesn't reach out beyond his bubble and connect with non members living in the real world and nor does he want to. I think he has to go as he has no ability or desire to deliver a Labour government. Although I am certain his Momentum chums will return him to the leaders office

Surely the result of this insular policy is obvious. Catastrophic defeat and an increased conservative majority. Perhaps that what they want. After all, winning elections isn't important to Momentum. Saying nice things seems more important than doing something about inequality in society. Perhaps Smith couldn't change that but he would at least try to reach out to non members and those not on the same page as Corbyn.
Not what I asked. We aren't talking about Corbyn. We are talking about Owen Smith.

If he becomes leader and Labour fails to win an election again, are we going to continue blaming the leader or are we going sit down and reflect on what's wrong with the party. I guarantee it will be the former.
 

DarloRich

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I know who Momentum will blame!

I agree that we wont sit down and asses how we have fallen out of touch with core supporters OR why we don't appeal to non core supporters.

For instance: It is interesting that dear Corbys all migrants welcome here policy is extremely toxic among core supporters in my ( former) part of the North East. The same area where UKIP finished second in the locals!
 

Phil.

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I know who Momentum will blame!

I agree that we wont sit down and asses how we have fallen out of touch with core supporters OR why we don't appeal to non core supporters.

For instance: It is interesting that dear Corbys all migrants welcome here policy is extremely toxic among core supporters in my ( former) part of the North East. The same area where UKIP finished second in the locals!

Which just goes to show how out of touch - as ever - the party is from the electorate. "All migrants are welcome here" is fine for the dreamers and idealists that make up the majority of the party leadership but I wonder what Merkel and her supporters are thinking now? I'm not against migration, next door but one to me is a lovely Polish girl who is a nurse in the local hospital, one of the best eateries that I know of in Pz is run by a family of Poles. What I am - and millions like me are too - is the uncontrolled let everyone in mentality without reckoning where these people are going to live, have their children educated, have any sickness treated given that our infrastructure is already creaking at the seams. We need immigrants, but the ones that we let in must have jobs to go to or skills that we can utilise.
I expect I'm a racist now.
 

Domh245

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What I am - and millions like me are too - is the uncontrolled let everyone in mentality without reckoning where these people are going to live, have their children educated, have any sickness treated given that our infrastructure is already creaking at the seams. We need immigrants, but the ones that we let in must have jobs to go to or skills that we can utilise.
I expect I'm a racist now.

What we really need is more infrastructure!
 
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Harbornite

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Which just goes to show how out of touch - as ever - the party is from the electorate. "All migrants are welcome here" is fine for the dreamers and idealists that make up the majority of the party leadership but I wonder what Merkel and her supporters are thinking now? I'm not against migration, next door but one to me is a lovely Polish girl who is a nurse in the local hospital, one of the best eateries that I know of in Pz is run by a family of Poles. What I am - and millions like me are too - is the uncontrolled let everyone in mentality without reckoning where these people are going to live, have their children educated, have any sickness treated given that our infrastructure is already creaking at the seams. We need immigrants, but the ones that we let in must have jobs to go to or skills that we can utilise.

Agreed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
What we really need is more infrastructure!

We could do with slashing foreign aid and clamping down on health tourism.
 
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asylumxl

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I know who Momentum will blame!

I agree that we wont sit down and asses how we have fallen out of touch with core supporters OR why we don't appeal to non core supporters.

I'm glad we agree on something. I feel this is something the party has failed to do since 2010.

For instance: It is interesting that dear Corbys all migrants welcome here policy is extremely toxic among core supporters in my ( former) part of the North East. The same area where UKIP finished second in the locals!

The irony there being more people in the NE instead voted for Tories in the last two elections, whom despite their promises, failed to kerb immigration and under whom we have actually seen an increase in immigration.
 

Domh245

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So the election is going to go ahead then, the legal challenge to see Corbyn try and garner support from the PLP has been rejected in the courts

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36909862

A judge has rejected a challenge to Labour's decision to allow Jeremy Corbyn to automatically stand for re-election as leader.
Labour donor and ex-parliamentary candidate Michael Foster was challenging Mr Corbyn's inclusion without having to get MPs' nominations.
Mr Corbyn called the court case a "waste of time and resources".
His rival in the leadership battle, Owen Smith, had earlier told the BBC he backed Mr Corbyn being on the ballot.
 

Busaholic

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So the election is going to go ahead then, the legal challenge to see Corbyn try and garner support from the PLP has been rejected in the courts

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36909862

Hardly a surprise - I suspect whichever decision the National Executive had reached would have been backed by the court, because the wording was vague enough that either interpretation of whether Corbyn as leader had to get the backing of 20% of MPs/MEPs or not could have been reached without perversity.

Even if the court had decided that Corbyn had to get 51 nominations, I suspect that he would have achieved that, on the same basis as last time in that some MPs/MEPs who don't actually want him as leader would have nominated him, believing to leave him off the ballot paper would be morally wrong, and counter-productive in the short term at least.
 

Chrism20

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Probably Tony Blair as he seems Labours "scapegoat of choice":p

Given everything that Blair has had thrown at him recently the scary bit about it is that if he were to return as labour leader tomorrow he would probably poll higher than Corbyn the situation is that dire.

We are staring at another ten plus years of Tory rule at this rate.
 

Butts

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Given everything that Blair has had thrown at him recently the scary bit about it is that if he were to return as labour leader tomorrow he would probably poll higher than Corbyn the situation is that dire.

We are staring at another ten plus years of Tory rule at this rate.

Speaking as a Scottish Conservative (as rare as hens teeth :oops:) I can't believe the way Blair is vilified by a lot of his erstwhile supporters.

Okay he slipped up over Iraq but there seems to some sort of collective amnesia about his electoral successes and progressive policies.

It's almost as though "Calamity Corbyn" and his acolytes would prefer to remain in the electoral wilderness rather than give Blair any credit for anything.

Poor old Darlorich tries quite rightly to point out that appealing to a few hundred thousand Labour Members will not result in a Labour Government but they don't want to listen. Talk about lemmings....<D
 
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