Jeremy Corbyn & Tom Watson elected leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party

[PHILIPE]

That reminds me. I must watch "Life of Brian" again!

They should get the hell out of it rather than destroy the Labour Party just for the sake of protesting and not interested in winning an election.

 

[Gutfright]

In many ways I like the cut of Owen Smith's jib, but I don't know if I can vote for someone who supports institutional sexism.

I think it's important that we try to eliminate gender discrimination, but Smith wants to make it official Party policy. It's almost as though Smith has seen the success Trump has had and thought "Hey, discrimination against a minority group really seems to work. I've got to get myself a piece of that action!".

 

[Harbornite]

He could do a lot worse than giving women opportunities. Just be glad he doesn't want to get rid of all menfolk from the party.

 

[Gutfright]

He could do a lot worse than giving women opportunities. Just be glad he doesn't want to get rid of all menfolk from the party.

It's the current year, jobs should be awarded based on performance and merit and not based on what genitals you happen to have.

 

[PHILIPE]

It's the current year, jobs should be awarded based on performance and merit and not based on what genitals you happen to have.

The important factor here is discrimination. We get companies and others saying there should be more women on Boards or other functions. This is what I term as sexism or even sexual discrimination against men which you never hear of.
Job appointments should be entirely on merit WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION against any section of the community.

 

[EM2]

The important factor here is discrimination. We get companies and others saying there should be more women on Boards or other functions. This is what I term as sexism or even sexual discrimination against men which you never hear of.
Job appointments should be entirely on merit WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION against any section of the community.

The two are not exclusive. There are numerous instances where the person best qualified for a position was female, but not given the position.
What you're seeing as discrimination against men (they shouldn't be given jobs even if they're the best) is very often still discrimination against women (them not being given jobs even when they are the best).

 

[trevwilliams]

If merit and performance were really all that was needed we'd have loads more women on boards and in parliment. Unfortunately having a scrotum means more pay and more opportunity. Positive discrimination is needed to ensure a level playing field. I for one believe that more women in power will only benefit society.

 

[EM2]

It is puritanical socialism which ensures the people really suffering under Tory rule and consigned to almost constant Tory rule. It is enraging that they seek to transform a serious political party into a joke rather than try to win power and change things.

So you think that in the nearly four years we have until the next General Election, there is absolutely no chance that Jeremy Corbyn can argue against Tory policy and enthuse enough of the populace to vote against it?
If there were a General Election this year, I might agree with you, but a week is a long time in politics, and three years might as well be an eternity.

 

[Flamingo]

So you think that in the nearly four years we have until the next General Election, there is absolutely no chance that Jeremy Corbyn can argue against Tory policy and enthuse enough of the populace to vote against it?
If there were a General Election this year, I might agree with you, but a week is a long time in politics, and three years might as well be an eternity.

I think if he had eternity, Jeremy Corbyn could not appear as a potential Prime Minister. (That's as a long-time Labour supporter).

 

[DarloRich]

So you think that in the nearly four years we have until the next General Election, there is absolutely no chance that Jeremy Corbyn can argue against Tory policy and enthuse enough of the populace to vote against it?
If there were a General Election this year, I might agree with you, but a week is a long time in politics, and three years might as well be an eternity.

For Corbyn to win power there would have to be a come back be akin to that of Lazarus! (Mind I expect Lazrus wanted to live rather than just talk to other dead people about how awful being dead was!) Although it is clear neither Corbyn nor his Momentum acolytes have any interest in winning power.

Look at the polls. Corbyn has the worst ratings of any opposition leader, we are behind the Tories everywhere except the north and (much closer) in London. The worry is that clearly Corbynians don't seem to care or treat political power as important. I ask again: How do we change things for people from, at best, constant opposition and at worst extinction?

There is all this guff about building a grass roots movement (whatever that means!) which overlooks one key issue: When your enemy controls the levers of power they control where you can gather, when you can gather, how you can gather, with whom you can gather and what you can say – if they let you say anything at all. in other words they can snuff out your grass roots revolution and ignore everything you say. Surely any appreciation of Labour history shows this to be true!

I think if he had eternity, Jeremy Corbyn could not appear as a potential Prime Minister. (That's as a long-time Labour supporter).

This, this and thrice this! Said as a long term labour voter, party member, trade unionist and all round Tory bahser. We will die as a serious political party with Corbyn at the helm. We will be replaced by some kind of pressure group with no desire or ability to take power.

 

[Phil.]

In many ways I like the cut of Owen Smith's jib, but I don't know if I can vote for someone who supports institutional sexism.

I think it's important that we try to eliminate gender discrimination, but Smith wants to make it official Party policy. It's almost as though Smith has seen the success Trump has had and thought "Hey, discrimination against a minority group really seems to work. I've got to get myself a piece of that action!".

The Labour party often trumpets itself as the party of equality and non gender bias. just remind me again, which party has had two female leaders and prime Ministers?

 

[DarloRich]

The Labour party often trumpets itself as the party of equality and non gender bias. just remind me again, which party has had two female leaders and prime Ministers?

it cant be the Conservatives. One of them certainly wasnt a woman

 

[TheKnightWho]

The Labour party often trumpets itself as the party of equality and non gender bias. just remind me again, which party has had two female leaders and prime Ministers?

Shutting the glass ceiling behind you doesn't really count.

 

[Harbornite]

The Labour party often trumpets itself as the party of equality and non gender bias. just remind me again, which party has had two female leaders and prime Ministers?

Good point.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In fairness to Labour, they have more female MP's than the Conservatives.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32601280

 

[northwichcat]

The following have been accused of having an anti-Corbyn bias:
1. Sky News
2. LBC
3. The Sun
4. The Daily Mail
5. Metro
6. The Evening Standard
7. BBC
8. The Telegraph
9. The Mirror
10. The Guardian
11. The Independent
12. Huffington Post

So everyone except The Socialist Worker

 

[Harbornite]

The following have been accused of having an anti-Corbyn bias:
1. Sky News
2. LBC
3. The Sun
4. The Daily Mail
5. Metro
6. The Evening Standard
7. BBC
8. The Telegraph
9. The Mirror
10. The Guardian
11. The Independent
12. Huffington Post

So everyone except The Socialist Worker

That is to be expected from the right leaning papers like the Daily Mail, t'Independent etc.

As for the Guardian, fair play to them for not being deluded.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The following have been accused of having an anti-Corbyn bias:
1. Sky News
2. LBC
3. The Sun
4. The Daily Mail
5. Metro
6. The Evening Standard
7. BBC
8. The Telegraph
9. The Mirror
10. The Guardian
11. The Independent
12. Huffington Post

So everyone except The Socialist Worker

Or the Express, if your list is accurate

To be fair, anyone can accuse any paper of bias. So unless, the accusation has come from a reputable/disinterested source or is backed up by reasonable evidence, the fact that the above outlets have been accused of anti-Corbyn bias doesn't really by itself tell you much.

 

[northwichcat]

Owen Smith's leadership pledges

1. A pledge to focus on equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.
2. Scrapping the DWP and replacing it with a Ministry for Labour and a Department for Social Security.
3. Introducing modern wages councils for hotel, shop and care workers to strengthen terms and conditions.
4. Banning zero hour contracts.
5. Ending the public sector pay freeze.
6. Extending the right to information and consultation to cover all workplaces with more than 50 employees.
7. Ensuring workers’ representation on remuneration committees.
8. Repealing the Trade Union Act.
9. Increase spending on the NHS by 4% in real-terms in every year of the next parliament.
10. Commit to bringing NHS funding up to the European average within the first term of a Labour Government.
11. Greater spending on schools and libraries.
12. Re-instate the 50p top rate of income tax.
13. Reverse the reductions in Corporation Tax due to take place over the next four years.
14. Reverse cuts to Inheritance Tax announced in the Summer Budget.
15. Reverse cuts to Capital Gains Tax announced in the Summer Budget.
16. Introduce a new wealth Tax on the top 1% earners.
17. A British New Deal unveiling £200bn of investment over five years.
18. A commitment to invest tens of billions in the North of England, and to bring forward High Speed 3.
19. A pledge to build 300,000 homes in every year of the next parliament – 1.5 million over five years.
20. Ending the scandal of fuel poverty by investing in efficient energy.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Or the Express, if your list is accurate

To be fair, anyone can accuse any paper of bias. So unless, the accusation has come from a reputable/disinterested source or is backed up by reasonable evidence, the fact that the above outlets have been accused of anti-Corbyn bias doesn't really by itself tell you much.

It's come from Corbynites so no.

 

[Harbornite]

That's a good manifesto, good to see hs3 getting support and no mention of trident being axed. That British new deal sounds interesting.

 

[Gutfright]

Pledge 1 sounds a little sinister, and I can't see it being a vote winner.

Apart from that there are some good ideas there.

 

[Domh245]

Pledge 1 sounds a little sinister, and I can't see it being a vote winner.

Apart from that there are some good ideas there.

It's a shame then that it won't be put to the public then, at least not under a Labour banner.

 

[DarloRich]

Owen Smith's leadership pledges

Got my vote - although anyone but Corbyn has my vote!

 

[Gutfright]

It's a shame then that it won't be put to the public then, at least not under a Labour banner.

I'm sure Labour's 2020 election manifesto under Corbyn will be just as good, if not better!

 

[asylumxl]

Got my vote - although anyone but Corbyn has my vote!

If you were a record you'd not be broken, you'd be separated in to billions of individual carbon and hydrogen atoms [emoji13] .

Did he stand you up on a date or something?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm sure Labour's 2020 election manifesto under Corbyn will be just as good, if not better!

On what premise do you base your aspirational view of the matter?

 

[Harbornite]

It's a shame then that it won't be put to the public then, at least not under a Labour banner.

Nowt wrong with consistently criticizing someone.

 

[asylumxl]

On what premise do you base your aspirational view of the matter?

And on what premise do you base your view it is an aspirational view?

 

[Gutfright]

On what premise do you base your aspirational view of the matter?

The vast majority of Smith's pledges are things Corbyn has already stated he would do himself.

I'm not sure of Corbyn's position on HS3 though, but I do know he's generally quite pro-rail.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I think if he had eternity, Jeremy Corbyn could not appear as a potential Prime Minister. (That's as a long-time Labour supporter).

Agreed. As much as I hate the man for taking us into an unnecessary war, Tony Blair had what the party needs now. Electability.

 

[Harbornite]

The vast majority of Smith's pledges are things Corbyn has already stated he would do himself.

I'm not sure of Corbyn's position on HS3 though, but I do know he's generally quite pro-rail.

I thought 'd share this...

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News UK News Labour leadership election
Owen Smith makes 20 pledges if he's Labour leader - but how many has Jeremy Corbyn suggested before?
17:51, 27 JUL 2016 UPDATED 17:55, 27 JUL 2016
BY DAN BLOOM
Team Corbyn accused the Labour leadership rival of nicking their ideas - a claim Mr Smith rejects. So who's right? We went digging for the truth


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Reuters/PACorbyn SmithOwen Smith made some big pledges today - so how many have we heard before
Owen Smith unveiled a mammoth list of 20 left-wing policies today as he vowed to focus Labour on "cold-eyed socialist revolution".

But Labour's leadership challenger prompted a war of words with Team Corbyn - who basically accused him of nicking their ideas.

A spokesman for the Jeremy For Labour campaign welcomed the speech because it had "policies announced in recent months by Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell."

They added his pledge to set up a Ministry of Labour had won support from John McDonnell only last month.

READ MORE
Owen Smith attacked for saying he wants to 'smash Theresa May back on her heels'
In response Mr Smith said the Shadow Cabinet had been "devoid of ideas quite often" - he'd not heard the Ministry of Labour idea there once - and Corbyn and McDonnell had been "weak".

PALabour Leadership candidate Owen Smith during his leadership campaign speech at Catcliffe, SheffieldOwen Smith unveiled a huge action plan of left-wing ideas in his speech
Team Smith later sprang into action, telling journalists Mr McDonnell only saw a Ministry of Labour as a "contribution to the debate".

A Smith spokesman added curtly: "If he now full-heartedly supports it, that is wonderful news".

So with all guns blazing in the information wars, what's the truth?

We've taken a look through all 20 policies and looked for any reference to them in Mr Corbyn's Commons appearances, Labour Party Conference speech and interviews.

We found just four were previous Corbyn policies and seven were not - with the other nine dangling somewhere in between.

Here's how it breaks down.

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1. Create equality of outcome
What has Owen Smith promised? He will focus on equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? This almost too general to compare. Mr Corbyn said on July 21: "Over the next couple of months, our campaign will set out how we plan to defeat the Tories and elect a Labour government that will act to tame the forces holding people back - of inequality, neglect, insecurity, prejudice and discrimination - and to build a society in which no one and no community is left behind."

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? SORT OF

2. Scrap the DWP in favour of Ministry for Labour
What has Owen Smith promised? He will scrap the DWP and replace it with a Ministry for Labour and a Department for Social Security.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? He doesn't appear to have pledged to scrap the DWP. Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell did offer broad support to a manifesto by the Institute of Employment Rights on June 30 that vowed - among many other things - to create a Ministry of Labour. He didn't announce it as a specific policy, but Mr Corbyn suggested a Ministry of Labour during last year's leadership campaign.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? SORT OF

PADepartment for Work & PensionsOwen Smith says he'd abolish the Department for Work & Pensions

3. Return to wage councils
What has Owen Smith promised? He will return to 'modern wages councils' for hotel, shop and care workers to strengthen terms and conditions.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? We don't believe this is a specific Jeremy Corbyn policy.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO

4. Ban zero-hour contracts
What has Owen Smith promised? He will ban zero-hour contracts.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? He said on June 16: "As well as outlawing these exploitative contracts in Britain, we should go further and work with our allies to establish a European minimum standard of rights at work to stop undercutting and give people the job security they need."

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES

GettyJeremy Corbyn Rosie WintertonBoth Jeremy Corbyn and Ed Miliband backed scrapping zero-hour contracts

5. Stop the public sector pay freeze
What has Owen Smith promised? He will end the public sector pay freeze.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? He campaigned on the issue of ending the freeze of 1% rises last summer, although Hansard records suggest he hasn't mentioned the words "pay freeze" or "public sector pay" since he became leader.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES, MORE OR LESS

6. Give staff at small firms a voice
What has Owen Smith promised? He will extend the legal right to be consulted about company changes to cover all workplaces with fewer than 50 employees.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? We don't believe this is a specific Jeremy Corbyn policy.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO

GettyCommuters heading into the City of London walk in the rain across London Bridge, in front of the Shard skyscraper, in central LondonMr Smith says he'd give workers in smaller firms a formal voice

7. Give workers a say on bosses' pay
What has Owen Smith promised? He will ensure lower-paid workers are represented on remuneration committees, which set pay for the highest-level directors of big firms.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? Although several politicians including David Miliband and Liz Kendall have raised this idea before, and Mr Corbyn has said Britain should crack down on executive pay, we don't believe this is a specific Jeremy Corbyn policy.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO

8. Repeal the Trade Union Act
What has Owen Smith promised? He will repeal the "vicious and vindictive" Trade Union Act, a crackdown on rights passed by the Tories earlier this year.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? He vowed to repeal the same reforms as early as December.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES

Jack Taylor/ Getty ImagesMost of the Labour family, including John McDonnell, have fought the Trade Union Act

9. Raise NHS spending by 4%
What has Owen Smith promised? Increase spending on the NHS by 4% in real terms in every year of the next parliament.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? He has attacked NHS deficits and cuts several times, telling David Cameron on December 16 that "NHS trusts are forecasting a deficit of £2.2 billion this year. There is a problem of NHS funding. Has he forgotten the simple maxim that prevention is cheaper and better than cure?" However, Mr Corbyn has not set a figure and his allies point out that, with inflation, Mr Smith's pledge could mean 8% more spending every year.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO

10. Raise NHS spending to the European average
What has Owen Smith promised? He has committed to bringing NHS funding up to the European average within the first term of a Labour Government. Kings Fund research in January put Britain 13th out of 15 nations.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? See above in general terms - but we don't believe this is a specific Jeremy Corbyn policy.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO

PAOwen Smith made a string of concrete, very big funding pledges to services like the NHS

11. Spend more on schools and libraries
What has Owen Smith promised? He will spend more on schools and libraries to "re-open libraries and reduce class sizes".

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? On April 20 he condemned the Tories for slashing schools spending 7% in real terms. On May 18 he added: "When they slash local authorities’ budgets, leisure centres, libraries and children’s centres close. When they close fire stations and cut firefighters’ jobs, response times increase and more people are in danger of dying in fires. This austerity is a political choice, not an economic necessity. It is a wrong choice for our country, made by a Government with the wrong priorities." While we can't find a repeat of this specific policy, it seems implied.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES, MORE OR LESS

12. Bring back the 50p tax rate
What has Owen Smith promised? He will bring back Labour's 50p income tax rate for £150,000 earners which the Tories scrapped.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? His right-hand man, Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell, said on Question Time on March 3: "We opposed the 45p and we would put it back at 50p and leave it at that".

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES


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13. Reverse Tory corporation tax cuts
What has Owen Smith promised? He will reverse the Tories' plans to cut corporation tax from 20% to 17% between now and 2020.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? Asked how he'd make up the funding to stop cuts to Personal Independence Payments (PIP), he told the BBC on March 21: "The tax cuts they've proposed in corporation tax and capital gains tax would pay for that so I suggest they just don't go ahead with those tax cuts at the top end of the scale." We can't find a specific pledge to reverse the cuts retrospectively, but it seems implied.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES, MORE OR LESS

14. Reverse Tory inheritance tax cuts
What has Owen Smith promised? He will reverse Tory plans to bring in a new £175,000 tax-free allowance per person for the value of a house - bringing the total to £500,000 (£1million for a couple).

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? In last year's Labour conference speech Mr Corbyn said he would fight inheritance tax cuts "every inch of the way". Also at conference he said the tax should be "graded". John McDonnell said in April a £500,000 rate showed "something wrong in the system". We can't find a specific pledge to reverse the cuts retrospectively, but it seems implied.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES, MORE OR LESS

PADavid Cameron greeting his father IanDavid Cameron managed to get a hefty sum from his late dad Ian
15. Reverse Tory capital gains tax cuts
What has Owen Smith promised? He will reverse the Tories' cut in the tax - affecting just 0.3% people - from 28% to 20% for high earners and 18% to 10% for other people.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? See point 13. We can't find a specific pledge to reverse the cuts retrospectively, but it seems to be implied.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES, MORE OR LESS

16. Hit the 1% with a new wealth tax
What has Owen Smith promised? He will introduce a 15% levy on "unearned income from investment" for people who earn £150,000 or more a year.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? Mr Corbyn has repeatedly said the rich must shoulder more of a burden. But we don't believe this is a specific Jeremy Corbyn policy.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO

AFP/Getty ImagesCorbyn says the wealthy should get on their bike and pay up - but are policies the same?

17. Launch a £200bn 'New Deal'
What has Owen Smith promised? He will invest £200billion in "infrastructure, housing and people" funded by government bonds.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? He voiced similar commitment to infrastructure in last year's conference speech, where he proposed a state-owned National Investment Bank to raise finance. "With interest rates so low now is the time for public investment in our infrastructure," he said. He added this would run to billions of pounds but we can't find a specific £200bn figure.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? SORT OF

18. Build High Speed 2 and High Speed 3
What has Owen Smith promised? He will commit to delivering the HS2 rail line from London to Birmingham and beyond, and the HS3 link between Manchester and Leeds.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? His (now former) Shadow Transport Secretary voiced full support for HS2, but Mr Corbyn said on October 1 the government should "look very closely" at stopping the line before London's Euston station. Then on March 17 he said HS3 should be given the green light before London's Crossrail 2.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? SORT OF

19. Build 1.5million new homes
What has Owen Smith promised? He will ensure 300,000 homes are built in every year of the next parliament – 1.5 million over five years.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? Labour under his leadership said it would build 100,000 council and housing association homes a year. We haven't seen a specific figure on private homes.

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? NO

20. Invest in energy efficiency
What has Owen Smith promised? He claims he will end "the scandal of fuel poverty" by investing in efficient energy.

What has Jeremy Corbyn said? In last year's conference speech he promised "a Green New Deal investing in renewable energy and energy conservation to tackle the threat of climate change".

Is this a previous Corbyn policy? YES

TOTAL
PREVIOUS CORBYN IDEAS: 4

YES... MORE OR LESS: 5

SORT OF: 4

NOT CORBYN IDEAS: 7_twitter