Pensioner against feet on seats

[SPADTrap]

The forum has out done itself this time!

You may think what you like but the moment you lay hands on someone, especially a child, you're screwed.

This is why I like a securely locked door between me and the animals! Could trust cattle more than people.

 

[bramling]

You cannot be "trained to have a duty of care". That said, it is only to be expected that train operators, like any organisation dealing with the public, have child protection policies in place.



I'll let others wonder about amateur readings of the law.

One point of interest - we hear a lot about "duty of care".

In my time on the railway, I've *never* had any formal training, briefing, instruction or anything on "duty of care".

Has anyone? (genuine question).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is why I like a securely locked door between me and the animals! Could trust cattle more than people.

This has to be the best and most sensible post on this thread.

 

[Antman]

I feel that the change is that there are no longer the authority figures, police, park keepers, station masters etc. who would control such behaviour. These have been removed in the interests of efficiency and cost saving, apparently.

They no longer have the respect and authority that they used to, even police officers are sworn at by kids these days.

Looking at some of the 'do gooder' (and I use that term loosely) attitudes displayed on here it's no wonder that we have the yob culture that we do in this country!

 

[transmanche]

They no longer have the respect and authority that they used to, even police officers are sworn at by kids these days.

And you think there was some golden age when no-one ever swore at a policeman? You really need to take off those rose-tinted spectacles.

Looking at some of the 'do gooder' (and I use that term loosely) attitudes displayed on here it's no wonder that we have the yob culture that we do in this country!

:roll:

 

[Class377]

They no longer have the respect and authority that they used to, even police officers are sworn at by kids these days.

Looking at some of the 'do gooder' (and I use that term loosely) attitudes displayed on here it's no wonder that we have the yob culture that we do in this country!

"Yob culture"?

I've lived in some rough areas, and some not-so-rough areas, and I've never really experienced anything like that. Maybe a few kids hanging around, maybe a bit of graffiti, but certainly nothing like you suggest. The hyperbole and nonsense you come out with, you'd have thought we'd be living in a state of chaos!

Get your head out of the sensationalist newspapers, stop being a grumpy old man and have a look at the world outside. There have always been a few idiots in the world being a bit stupid and swearing at people, but the vast vast majority still behave themselves.

Then again, if your idea of someone being a yob is having their feet up on a train, perhaps it's little wonder you spout such rubbish. How on earth do you cope with the real world?

 

[Harbornite]

The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.


Not a quote from one of the crappy gutter press tabloids. This was actually said by Socrates or Plato, thus proving that the older generations have always looked down at youth. Of course, Antman is right in basically saying that the youth are out-of-control scum, hence why crime rates and drug usage among them are falling...

 

[RichmondCommu]

It's a sad day when you read that some forum members are happy to condone violence against children. One wonders whether those members have the same attitude towards domestic violence.

 

[SPADTrap]

They no longer have the respect and authority that they used to, even police officers are sworn at by kids these days.

Looking at some of the 'do gooder' (and I use that term loosely) attitudes displayed on here it's no wonder that we have the yob culture that we do in this country!

You see swearing at police officers as disrespectful but would buy someone a pint for assaulting a child, or at least encourage it?

Are you aggrieved at the lack of respect or is there some other motivation for your arguments?

 

[AlterEgo]

You see swearing at police officers as disrespectful but would buy someone a pint for assaulting a child?

Are you aggrieved at the lack of respect or is there some other motivation for your arguments?

Don't take the bait.

 

[OneOffDave]

Speaking to a colleague who has over 20 years control and restraint training and experience, he said if he'd have seen that the old guy would be finding himself pinned and restrained. The move he was using is highly likely to cause significant injury and possibly permanent disability. Applying his bodyweight to the child on a softer surface like the seat could have also led to asphixia issues

 

[TheKnightWho]

deleted
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They no longer have the respect and authority that they used to, even police officers are sworn at by kids these days.

Looking at some of the 'do gooder' (and I use that term loosely) attitudes displayed on here it's no wonder that we have the yob culture that we do in this country!

Didn't you say yourself that you behaved badly when you were younger?

 

[GarethJohn]

They no longer have the respect and authority that they used to, even police officers are sworn at by kids these days.

Looking at some of the 'do gooder' (and I use that term loosely) attitudes displayed on here it's no wonder that we have the yob culture that we do in this country!

The only yob I see is the Pensioner. And what is a 'do gooder''?

 

[GarethJohn]

These Kids were not even teenagers but Primary School age and a firm word would have worked, if you were that bothered by what they were doing.
If they cheek back then explain the consequences they needn't be that honest. If you cannot do so without resorting to violence then leave it be in the first place and let someone more mature deal with it.

 

[bramling]

The only yob I see is the Pensioner. And what is a 'do gooder''?

We can debate all we like about terms, but the fact is that (from the limited factual information we actually have about this incident) *both* parties were in the wrong.

The kids shouldn't have had their feet on the seats. The man was perfectly within his rights to challenge them, but he shouldn't have gone as far as he did.

 

[PauloDavesi]

A serious question, many of the posts condoning and supporting the violent asault on the young child were made by members who are employed in customer facing roles within the railway industry, is that really an acceptable attitude to have when you are employed to deal with customers?

 

[GarethJohn]

We can debate all we like about terms, but the fact is that (from the limited factual information we actually have about this incident) *both* parties were in the wrong.

The kids shouldn't have had their feet on the seats. The man was perfectly within his rights to challenge them, but he shouldn't have gone as far as he did.

The welfare of a Child is paramount and trumps that of any other member of society(Certainly not a uncivilized one such as this man).
I and any other adult would be within theirs to protect that Kids welfare at the detriment of the Pensioners health, if need be, as he is the instigator of the violence.
I hardly think the welfare of a seat is more important do you?

 

[sciisfun]

They no longer have the respect and authority that they used to, even police officers are sworn at by kids these days.

Looking at some of the 'do gooder' (and I use that term loosely) attitudes displayed on here it's no wonder that we have the yob culture that we do in this country!

I must be one of those yobbo's then, as I am youth, but not only that but currently unemployed! A double blow (we'll gloss over the fact I spent 4 years training in aerospace engineering, and can't get a job in engineering because of my age, and because I spent all this time training 'I'm too qualified to work on the shop floor of my local supermarket' (direct quote from a manager around my way!))
Out of curiosity, do you work with kids much in any capacity? as a scout leader there are very few kids that I would call a yobo, and I used to help out on outreach programs to those with a lower income who are more likely to require support often thinking the government has failed them an such, and I get nothing but respect from them. The only time I have ever been sworn at was by an elderly man, and not these groups of yobo's!

 

[Antman]

I must be one of those yobbo's then, as I am youth, but not only that but currently unemployed! A double blow (we'll gloss over the fact I spent 4 years training in aerospace engineering, and can't get a job in engineering because of my age, and because I spent all this time training 'I'm too qualified to work on the shop floor of my local supermarket' (direct quote from a manager around my way!))
Out of curiosity, do you work with kids much in any capacity? as a scout leader there are very few kids that I would call a yobo, and I used to help out on outreach programs to those with a lower income who are more likely to require support often thinking the government has failed them an such, and I get nothing but respect from them. The only time I have ever been sworn at was by an elderly man, and not these groups of yobo's!

Get that chip off your shoulder!

 

[TheKnightWho]

Get that chip off your shoulder!

The only person with a chip on their shoulder is you: you're constantly making yourself out to be some sort of victim, and then moan and whine about it on this forum.

Your shameless hypocrisy is getting boring.

 

[Harbornite]

Get that chip off your shoulder!

Says you!

 

[bramling]

The welfare of a Child is paramount and trumps that of any other member of society(Certainly not a uncivilized one such as this man).
I and any other adult would be within theirs to protect that Kids welfare at the detriment of the Pensioners health, if need be, as he is the instigator of the violence.
I hardly think the welfare of a seat is more important do you?

So what if their shoes happened to have dog mess on them, and later in the day another person (perhaps a child) touched it?

Two wrongs don't make a right, and just because the man acted disproportionately doesn't excuse or condone the initial failure to behave properly, and neither does the child's age for that matter.

 

[Flamingo]

A serious question, many of the posts condoning and supporting the violent asault on the young child were made by members who are employed in customer facing roles within the railway industry, is that really an acceptable attitude to have when you are employed to deal with customers?

Which posts?

 

[GarethJohn]

So what if their shoes happened to have dog mess on them, and later in the day another person (perhaps a child) touched it?

Two wrongs don't make a right, and just because the man acted disproportionately doesn't excuse or condone the initial failure to behave properly, and neither does the child's age for that matter.

Did they? If you are so offended then explain why, it's quite simple these are Primary School kids their is no need to assault them.
A Seat is still not as important as the welfare of a Child. And would the Old man have done the same to an older member of the community? I have encountered plenty of anti-social behaviour from Pensioners such as throwing fag butt's on the ground, barging through pedestrians on motorised scooters. Shall I throttle them to teach them a lesson?

 

[miami]

So what if their shoes happened to have dog mess on them, and later in the day another person (perhaps a child) touched it?

Two wrongs don't make a right, and just because the man acted disproportionately doesn't excuse or condone the initial failure to behave properly, and neither does the child's age for that matter.

So if Jerry drops a cigarette butt and then Dave shoots them, we would be talking how bad it was that Jerry was littering, and yes while Dave went too far, that doesn't excuse or condone the initial failure to behave properly.

 

[Antman]

Did they? If you are so offended then explain why, it's quite simple these are Primary School kids their is no need to assault them.
A Seat is still not as important as the welfare of a Child. And would the Old man have done the same to an older member of the community? I have encountered plenty of anti-social behaviour from Pensioners such as throwing fag butt's on the ground, barging through pedestrians on motorised scooters. Shall I throttle them to teach them a lesson?

From what I can gather they were told to get their feet off the seats and they didn't so they were forcibly removed. I'm not sure I see what the problem is.

If I'd done that when I was a kid I'd have been off the train, out of the station and walking to my destination, do you think I'd have done it again?

Anyway I shall comment no further, this is getting rather tiresome now!

 

[Harbornite]

From what I can gather they were told to get their feet off the seats and they didn't so they were forcibly removed. I'm not sure I see what the problem is.

At least Antman acknowledges how tiresome he is. There's a slight problem with forcibly moving a child, namely... Using force against a child.

 

[Jamesb1974]

From what I can gather they were told to get their feet off the seats and they didn't so they were forcibly removed. I'm not sure I see what the problem is.

If I'd done that when I was a kid I'd have been off the train, out of the station and walking to my destination, do you think I'd have done it again?

Anyway I shall comment no further, this is getting rather tiresome now!

The problem is that a physically larger, physically stronger, adult male, who should know better is applying force to the arm of the child to resolve a minor dispute which, when all is said and done, had nothing to do with him. The problem will no doubt have adverse consequences for the male.

 

[SPADTrap]

From what I can gather they were told to get their feet off the seats and they didn't so they were forcibly removed. I'm not sure I see what the problem is.

If I'd done that when I was a kid I'd have been off the train, out of the station and walking to my destination, do you think I'd have done it again?

Anyway I shall comment no further, this is getting rather tiresome now!

Believe it or not their refusal to move their feet however annoying doesn't mean they can be assaulted.

Your calls for violence to teach them lessons for lacking respect isn't ironic it's total stupidity.

Also, putting a child in am arm lock isn't forcibly removing feet from a seat is it? Wouldn't that involve grabbing ankles?

 

[me123]

Without going over all this again people are sick and tired of the yob culture in this country.

If the children were behaving like yobs (and I don't think we know that to be the case), do you honestly think that the yob like actions of the man in question are any better?

I'm not going to answer any more posts from you as I am not wasting my time trying to have a discussion with anybody who condones assaulting children.

 

[carriageline]

Quite right, these urchins needed to be taught a lesson and hopefully the 'victim' will think twice next time he disrespects his elders. I'd give the gent a pat on the back. Maybe he should have given him the clip round the ear first before the armlock. Anyway, they are clearly vermin. What parents let children that age run riot?

Respect is earnt, not automatically given. I know, and have encountered plenty of "elders" who are quite frankly vile individuals, and are rude and derogatory.

The amount of silly comments in this thread is redonkulous. Ok, feets on seats can be quite disgusting, but no one on here really knows the full story. If it was the other way round, what would people's opinions be then? (Quite extravagant I know!!)

To say these kids will grow up "to be chavs, and amount to nothing" is hilarious. How can you make that assumption about the next 15 years of someone's life from a news article.